If we marry openly, her ex will come for their daughter!
Mother, the best friend of her daughter
I am an Indian marrying an Egyptian, divorced, orphaned lady (she has a 3 year old daughter from her previous husband). I am residing in Qatar and she is in Egypt. Her elder sister's husband is my friend and is here in Qatar. She is an orphan- she has only 2 brothers and 3 sisters; one brother in Saudi and another in Egypt. My friend (her elder sister's husband) and his wife (elder sister of the bride) is the one who brought up this lady as the parent. They want her to marry me.
However if we inform her brothers, all their family will know about this marriage and this will cause the bride's ex-husband to seize the 3 year old daughter away from her. So, we plan to marry in secret with the knowledge of her elder sister and her husband who is the caretaker of the bride now. Further, if the brothers know she is getting married to an Indian, they will refuse and the news will reach to her previous husband, causing her to lose the 3 year old daughter. In this special case, can the judge or imam act as her Wali for nikkah? Please answer this question at the earliest convenience.
-firozmahal
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salam
what are you talking about?
no man in shariah has any right to seize any child from a mother. even if the mother dies - Allah protect her - the child will go to her sister if she has one, then her mother, then her aunts, and so on until all of the females of her line are exhausted. Also in secular law, a father does not have a right to "seize" a child. this is not the middle ages. Courts do not take children away from mothers and give them to fathers except in exceptional cases, which yours is not.
Also you need to be diplomatic and help to solve any disputes with the child's estranged father. You ahould be doing this before you marry, and you should not be talking about marrying until such matters have been dealt with.
You need to offer the previous husband an opportunity to save face. Expect him to be angry because you are marrying his ex wife but if you are determined and strong and mature enough to marry a mother, then you should also be strong and diplomatic enough to discuss this with the child's father.
Remember the child has a right to see her father, as the father may, to see his daughter.
Salam
"even if the mother dies - Allah protect her - the child will go to her sister if she has one, then her mother, then her aunts, and so on until all of the females of her line are exhausted."
What's your evidence for this?
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
"no man in shariah has any right to seize any child from a mother. even if the mother dies...".
Sister (i'm assuming you're a sister), where did you get this idea from? This is completely incorrect information!
When a man and his wife divorces, the wife has more rights to their children, but if the wife decides to remarry, then in that case, the man would have more rights to the children than her.
Seized is a unkind and rude word for a father or mother if they want to take kids!! They both have equal rights over children. However, As far I know the mother has more right to custody of her children before the age of seven (not sure about the age it's just guess) as long as she does not remarry, in which case the right passes to the one who is most entitled to that after her, because Ahmad and Abu Dawood narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr that a woman said: “O Messenger of Allaah, my womb was a vessel for this son of mine and my breasts gave him (milk) to drink, and my lap was a refuge for him, but now his father has divorced me and he wants to take him away from me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You have more right to him so long as you do not remarry.” This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Salam,
I am really worried now! Im divorced and have kids. And one is over 7. So does that mean if i decide to get married to have a companion and to help me phisically and emotionally i have to hand my kids over to my ex husband?? ( he divorced me to live in sin)
So i have to chose between having full custody of my kids or remarriage? I cant have both?
; (
This kind of situation is vary vary critical to understand and act. I suggest you to consult a scholar.... It also vary country to country sometimes countries law come first because the husband or the wife might not be good financialy/mentally so on, so the court will also see who can take good care of a child. But at some age or time you can't stop its natural... You never know you will raise and one day they will say I want to live with my father now....
Sister Sumaira,
Don't worry too much, no one is going to take your children away from you and give it to a womaniser (your ex) just because you are remarrying. Many Western societies have laws to protect women, I have not read anywhere where a woman loses custody for simply marrying again. So, don't stress over this issue.
Muhammad1982,
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com
Salm brother Muhammad1982,
Thank you so much for your comment. I know in the UK I have full custody of my child. My husband will never get full custody according to uk rules. But I am concerned about the Islamic ruling in this matter after reading sister Nadia's comment.
My ex husband always threatens me to give him the children. Also keeps saying the day I get married I need to give him the children because he wants to make my life miserable. He is allowed to have his girlfriends and enjoy his sins and I am not allowed to remarry and be happy the halal way without losing my kids! That's what he wants to see me suffer as a single mother.
I love my kids and they love me and dont want to stay with the father. I cant give them up for a another husband!
Assalam O Alaikum brother Firozmahal,
First of all let me commend you for marrying a sister who is not only divorced but also has a daughter (is also and orphan). You are very admirable for doing so and helping her iA. Unfortunately, age old racism on the bases of caste, colour, race etc still exists and so are some silly non-Islamic practices such as this one in this day and age. Brother, if her father is not alive then her guardianship passes on to her brothers but if they are preventing her to remarry for reason which have no bases in Islam than someone else can step in and be her wali such as her uncle, local imam or may be this brother-in-law as well. Besides, I read several times that a divorced woman doesn't need wali to re-marry like a virgin (but it still is better so that someone can watch out for her best interest and no one takes advantage of her).
Also, you must speak to a lawyer in Egypt or in Saudi/UAE etc (where you currently live or plan to live after marriage) to find out what legal options you guys have but don't hesitate to earn your Jannah through marrying her and reviving the Sunnah. I am sure this won't be the first case of it's kind and there must be another way to have shared custody of the daughter.
In a Hadith, it is mentioned that the Holy Prophet (Sall Allahu alaihe wasallam) said: "When a female child is born, Allah Ta'ala sends his angels to that house. They come to the dwellers of that house and pray that peace may be upon them. The angels then cover the newly born girl in the shadow of their wings and caressing the bead of the baby with their bands say that this is a weak and frail person. Whoever with bear the responsibility of her cherishment will go on having the blessing of Allah Ta'ala as long as that person remains alive." (Moa’jam-us-Saghir)
May Allah (swt) make it easy for you both to get married, live a prosperous and happy life in this world and enter Jannah holding hands together;). Amin
Muhammad1982,
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com
Ameen to your dua'.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Salaams,
When someone uses the word "seize" in regards to taking children away from a presumably custodial parent, to me that translates to kidnapping. We don't know that this father even has access to his daughter now. Perhaps they are divorced because he was actually dangerous and violent, and he is entirely capable of reacting to this woman's remarriage impulsively and illegally.
I personally feel that if this woman and her daughter are in harm's way, or that the little girl may be taken against her mother's will, then the mother and daughter should not be left in Egypt. I think they should be brought to Qatar and put up somewhere safe until the nikkah. After that, they should remain with the husband in Qatar and in his protection while any other legal/custodial details are worked out.
As far as her needing a wali for the nikkah, I've heard that some scholars believe that a woman who is a divorcee doesn't need one, she is able to speak on her own behalf. Besides that, the brother's "rejecting" her proposal wouldn't stand anyway, because they are not basing it on sound Islamic reasons but racism. If she wants to have a wali, in this case anyone she trusts can stand for her.
-Amy
IslamicAnswers.com Editor