Islamic marriage advice and family advice

My Wife Loves Another Man

no love looking for love

Assalamu alaikum

I am a muslim, living in the UK. My parents are from Oman but I got a very British upbringing, without Islam being more than a nominal part of my life. Some years ago I had a change of heart and I found my religion Masha'Allah. It felt like coming home, and I knew that part of my life had been empty since I had lives it without my religion. I started doing my prayers in the local masjid, and made great friends there. They invited me to become a member of a social club in London where we studied the Quran, talked about life and supported each other.

During this time, my youngest daughter left home to study at university. It left a void in my life, and I suppose I was afraid too - afraid of not being needed the way I had been. I have a wonderful wife, a christian, who was my school sweetheart and I love her like crazy but she is very independent and I felt a need to be needed. To make a long story short, my friends from the masjid helped me get in touch with a man in Yemen who wanted a husband for his daughter. At first, he was reluctant to allow her to marry a foreigner, but I managed to convince him. I married his daughter, who was very happy to come to England and she didn't mind at all that she was my second wife.

I didn't dare tell my wife. I knew she would be devastated, and I knew that being Roman Catholic she would feel trapped because the Catholic church does not allow divorce - or polygamy. I thought if I told her after a few months she would be angry at first but I'd be able to say: Look - I've had another wife for two months, and nothing has changed, and I still love you, and she would be comforted by that.

Well, the plan didn't work. My first wife was so shocked, I was seriously afraid she would kill herself, she did harm herself and it was awful. I can't even describe it. Time passed and it didn't get any better. Every time I came home from my second wife I'd find my first wife in the dark, in our bedroom, just lying in the bed staring at the wall. She wouldn't eat or wash. I felt so trapped because I couldn't stand seeing my wife like that, but I was also falling in love with my second wife. I felt like a monster. Then suddenly my first wife started to come alive again. She started to be more like her old self, and I felt hopeful.

Then suddenly one day my first wife told me that the reason she was happy was that she had met another man, and the days and nights I had spent with my second wife, she had been with her new man. She told me she had a right to the same happiness as me, and that I should want for my brother what I want for myself.

I won't tell you more, out of decency, but please - I need advice. What do I tell my first wife? How do I make her see what is right? She will not divorce me, and I don't want to divorce her. She will not give up her lover unless I give up my second wife, she does not accept any arguments based on Islam she simply says "That is your religion, not mine". If I divorce her, my children say they will consider me dead to them and I can not, simply can not, live with that. Please help me, and give me advice. I dare not speak with my friends here about it as you might understand!

MarkRR


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82 Responses »

  1. Double standards here brother. You weren't religuous and did not ask your wife to convert for you and then you became religious and at this time took a second wife. If your first wife was causing you so much grief maybe you could have talked through it. There are very good counsellors, many good techniques you can use to inject the love back into a marriage. Your wife you've known since school but only now you needed to be needed?? I think you should look at where your desire to become religious has come from.
    You didn't even tell her what you did and then whilst you were with your second wife you understood what this was doing to your wife yet continued hoping she would come around to it. This then suggests a lot of presumption on your part. She is not muslim yet you after many years with her went and married another, this would have caused her a lot of pain. I think you knew exactly what you were doing.
    If she has found someone else it is best to finish it with her now and understand her hesitancy in wanting to divorce you comes from her religion which I know is very anti divorce. You made this mess brother and now you should be the one to let her go. As her being with another man whilst being married to you may not be against her religion but it will be horrible and detrimental to your children. And she will not stop until you leave your second wife which you obviously wont do. It seems she is asking you to make a choice. But you've seemed to have made it
    I hope you remain happy with your new wife.

  2. This is what happens when you go and marry non muslim women .How you will convince her ?
    As she is clearly saying she is not following Islam ..

    I am not sure you can tell her as per her belief too she doing adultery and at least for that sake she needs to stop it ...

    Else you don't have any option ...Divorce her if she don't stop it ..

    There is a hadith that talks about men who are dayyuths (cuckold):

    It is narrated by al-Nasaa’i (2562) from ‘Abd-Allah ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “There are three at whom Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, will not look on the Day of Resurrection: the one who is defiant towards his parents, the woman who imitates men, and the cuckold.”

    • @star what does this hadith cuckold mean? can you explain im curious to know? thanks

    • That hadith refers to the one who is cuckolded and does not mind, in other words he feels no gheerah or jealousy about his woman. That is not the case here. Furthermore, you have not addressed the brother's behavior at all.

      Wael
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

      • @Wael thank you.

        I do not agree with the brothers behavior however he could have dealt with this better. The first wife feels betrayed and acting out in anger having said that the brother should have a serious chat with her and see if he can amend things. If not then separate probably better.

        • Also think about it how would you feel if your wife did what you did just to feel needy? I bet you would have divorced her right away without a second thought. This is double standards.

          • I would not be in that situation because I would not create the whole problem by lying to my wife and secretly marring a second woman.

            Wael
            IslamicAnswers.com Editor

          • Brother Wael is exactly right - this problem is entirely of this man's creation, and although his wife's behavior is wrong, it is extremely difficult to condemn her or feel sorry for the brother because ultimately this is all a direct result of the incredible selfishness with which he has conducted himself.

    • Even if she was Muslim she doesn't need to accept a second wife. If I was in her position and my husband suddenly told me he had been sneaking around behind my back with another woman it would have killed me. In fact, I went through hell when I found out my husband was cheating on me, if I had found out he had a second wife for no good reason I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have accepted and things would have ended very badly.

      • @bucks I have noticed on a few posts you keep mentioning your husband whatever he has done let him be and let the past be the past. You need to move on and may Allah give you sabr.

  3. I'm lost for words. If you had a pleasant first marriage and loved your wife why in the world did you go and get yourself a second wife? Why? That too behind your first wife's back! I think you deserve the dilemma your in right now. If your not able to tolerate your wife seeing another man, why should she tolerate another woman? You were also well aware of the fact that your wife's religion does not allow polygamy or divorce so why couldn't you respect that for her sake, why couldn't you respect her? I could just about understand a second wife if your first wife was denying you your rights. But you married again and broke her heart simply because you needed to feel needed ! Omg! That's probably the most ridiculous reason, sorry not reason - EXCUSE, I have ever heard. You knew she was independent before you married her, if you didn't like this trait in her and didn't feel you could handle it why did you marry her in the first place. If you wanted to feel so needed why didn't you just buy yourself a pet !! I don't have any solutions for you because what you have done is wrong, I can only imagine the pain your wife is feeling, the betrayal she must feel after years of being loyal to you, the pain she must feel thinking that you were sneaking about behind her back with the second wife. I have no advice for you, to be honest I don't want to give you any advice I think you deserve what your going through.

  4. OP: To make a long story short, my friends from the masjid helped me get in touch with a man in Yemen who wanted a husband for his daughter. At first, he was reluctant to allow her to marry a foreigner, but I managed to convince him. I married his daughter, who was very happy to come to England and she didn't mind at all that she was my second wife.

    Some people will do any thing to get a Visa to UK, USA, Canada etc. Your friends used you to being a Yemeni girl to England.

  5. Assalam alaykum wrw brother-MarkRR

    As i am may not a good advisor here-i would like to drop one sentence regarding your current issue.
    Since now you have come back to islam in practice-you will HAVE TO WEIGH what is GOOD/NEED 1st PRIORITY for you ---whether YOUR IMAAN/DEEN or YOUR 1st WIFE.

    Any choice among these 2 will have serious consequences here in the world and here after.
    I know as you have sated that you have CHILDREN from this 1st wife...it might not be easy to let them go away from you BUT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR PRE-DECISION.

    One sentence: CHOOSE BETWEEN HER(1st wife) OR YOUR IMAAN.
    ADVICE: If you are caring your DUNYA and AKHIRA life ---find a safe way to divorce your NON MUSLIM WIFE if she DOES NOT CHANGE HER STUPID BEHAVIOUR.

    May ALLAH easy your issue.

    • Your calling her behaviour stupid but what about this guys behaviour?
      Your forgetting that she's not Muslim, and she probably doesn't have any concept of polygamy in her mind. The way she probably sees it is that her husband has cheated on her, so now she is behaving irrationally and cheating on him, she's doing it out of hurt. Being a non Muslim most likely she doesn't see it as a major sin, but again, I blame her husband for that. Whilst he was so busy getting married to a second wife, why couldn't he spend time with his first wife and give her dawah and bring her to Islam.

      I'm not saying what she is doing is right, but he has destroyed both his first wife's and his children's lives because of one irresponsible decision he has made. I wish him a happy life with his beloved second wife at the expense of his first wife and children.

    • Exactly I mean what was his fault? He DIDN'T commit adultery. He is following his religion. Its not mandatory for a husband to get permission to marry a second wife.
      But certainly have created a problem because of his children.
      Aren't they upset their mother is commuting a haram by actually commiting adultery?
      Why aren't they holding her accountable?
      Just be a father
      But nurture your second wife.

      • Ana how can you possibly say he was not at fault? It's baffling. I understand your saying he didn't commit adultery etc etc, but he lied to his wife, he betrayed her, he was sneaking about behind her back to be with his second wife, and he's forgetting this his first wife isn't Muslim so she might not understand the concept of polygamy. I know a Muslim woman whose husband tried to convince her for several years that he was going to marry a second time, his wife had a hard time accepting it, he still married her but at the expense of his first wife and children, and that's a good Muslim woman so why would a non Muslim have any patience? I think there is a Hadith also, where the prophet does not give permission for Ali to marry a second time whilst married to his daughter Fatima because it would hurt her. So although polygamy is allowed, it's hurtful, and although you don't need permission from your first wife, don't you think she at least deserves to know or have some say in the matter? If he really wanted a second marriage, couldn't he have guided his first wife to Islam and guided her to being more receptive to polygamy so that it was less painful to her. It just all sounds very selfish on his part, he followed his desires without thinking about the consequences.
        I'm not criticising but this whole mess was created by the husband, he's shattered his entire family over one bad decision. I pray Allah helps him find a solution that's best for all that are involved, Ameen.

  6. Assalaamualaikam

    Yes, your first wife should not be having an affair, but your behaviour has also been less than perfect. Before we can expect other people to change, we should look at our own actions and think - "how have these affected things? how have they led to the current situation? is there anything I would do differently if I had the chance? do these actions reflect the kind of person I want to be and the values I hold?". When you ask yourself these questions, consider whether this is the kind of man... the kind of husband... you want to be; if it isn't, think about what you can change.

    Taking a secret second wife may have seemed like a way to feel needed and feel good about yourself, but surely you had an idea that your first wife would not be happy about this. It sounds as though the discovery of this second marriage (which in the eyes of her religion would be considered adultery rather than a valid marriage) has been devastating for your first wife; I can only imagine the pain and distress she experienced. Now, though, you are in a position where you have responsibilities to two women, as you also have to be responsible for your second wife. You also have your children to consider, as any decision you make will affect them.

    If your first wife is saying things along the lines of that she would end this affair if you ended your second marriage, that may indicate that she would be willing to work at reconciliation if you were to end your second marriage. But it's unlikely that she'd be willing to do so if you remained with your second wife - she has experienced a great deal of hurt.

    I think your options probably come down to these...

    1) Continue in the current situation, and continue trying to get your first wife to accept your second wife and to stop her affair.
    2) Divorce your first wife and remain married to your second wife, in which case you may then need to work very hard to try to salvage any relationships with your children.
    3) Remain with your first wife and divorce your second wife, and try to salvage something of the relationship the two of you had.
    4) Divorce both your wives.

    None of these are good options. All will cause pain and difficulties for people involved. Only you can decide which of these is the least bad option for you, and you will need to then live with the consequences of your decision.

    Before making a decision, remember to pray istikhara; trust in Allah that He will guide you through this if you place your faith in Him.

    Midnightmoon
    IslamicAnswers.com editor

    • That was a really good response midnight moon, I probably came across as quite harsh but you said it all in a gentle way.

    • I think second option is better ..it's better to leave kaafir wife compare to new muslim wife ...relationship with children will be fine after some time ...children will forget it ad they won't see her mom as victim as she herself involved with new man ..

      • Assalam alaikum,

        What is a Kaafir?

        What is a Christian?

        If Christians are Kaafirs, why does Allah swt not refer to them as Kaafir but instead as "Ahl al-Kitāb?"

        Be careful of suggesting a specific option--it is better to outline the options and let the OP decide for himself. He has weaved this web and now he must deal with its consequences and he knows best the situation for his first wife, 2nd wife and his children. If he divorces his first wife and his children abandon him, this is no light burden--he could be a means of Deen for his children.

        And let us not be so quick to use such words as Kaafir because:

        “Fear your sins more than you fear the enemy as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemy. We Muslims are only victorious over our enemy because their sins outnumber ours, not for any other reason. If our sins were equal to those of our enemy, then they would defeat us due to their superior numbers and resources.”
        ~ Umar bin Al-Khattab (RA)

        Remember, that Iblis was a Kaafir, yet he knew full well of Allah swt 's existence. The word Kaafir has an in-depth meaning and should be carefully used.

        The OP admits that he changed lifestyles and he married his first wife and had children with her. It is not right for us to start saying such things about a person's wife. Nobody's judgement will help in this matter. He changed paths and then he changed paths again--when he chose to follow Islam, he needed to spend more time with his first wife. Even if she didn't appear to need him, perhaps that was when she needed him the most--especially how she lay in a dark room--it is very telling of her emotional state.

        Finally, we don't even know if the first wife is actually having an affair--she confessed this to her husband but it could be a tactic in order for him to leave the second wife. I re-iterate that we don't know the full details and the OP has left it out, let us not resort to name-calling. Three people's lives and their children are being affected--May Allah have MERCY on them, Ameen.

    • I don't think it'll be that easy to repare the relationship with his children if he chooses to divorce his first wife. If I were his kids I wouldn't want to know him either, not just because of the hurt and humiliation he has caused their mother, but because I would be ashamed to be the daughter of someone who is frankly a weak and cowardly man. Weak because instead of doing the hard work of repairing his marriage when he felt the bond weakening with his wife, he took the easy way out and married again, and cowardly because when he did take that decision instead of owning it and being honest about it he lied and snuck around like a thief in the night. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I think he needs to understand how severe the consequences of his actions may be. Even if his children forgive him eventually, I doubt they'll be interested in having a relationship with his new wife, and that will severely limit their contact with him. He also needs to consider the message he is sending to his children about what a Muslim man is and how he conducts himself. Presumably he has not raised them to be particularly religious, and now his actions will cause them to believe that when a Muslim man reconnects with his religion, he feels justified in discarding his first, older wife and marrying a new, likely younger one, without even the basic decency to give the first wife a heads up or a choice in the matter. At least if he stays with their mother, he will have the opportunity to model good Muslim behavior for his kids, and may be able to bring them closer to Islam.

    • JazkhAllah khair for your kind and honest advice to the OP midnightmoon.

  7. I'm sad to see that some of the responses to the brother have been written in an incredibly harsh and hurtful manner. Many of the questions on this forum from what I understand are people who come asking for advice having made poor choices, for whatever reason. When we advice someone surely we shouldn't try to aim to outdo one another in shaming him/her and saying things like ' I'd be ashamed of you if I was your child' and making presumptions about how he has raised them. It's pretty emotional statements and attacks on the OP. You can tell someone that their choice was wrong and therefore this has lead to this and this consequence. I read somewhere that when a person commits a sin he/she is in a state of ignorance- because who would dare to incur the Wrath of Allah swt and His Punishment upon themselves?!

    Maybe we should be reminded of the etiquettes of giving advice. And that's a reminder to myself first and foremost.

    • Firstly, feel free to address me directly. Secondly, I am not trying to out-do anyone in terms of harsh comments. I was simply shocked that anyone could say he should just let his kids get over what he's done! Everyone here is talking about him and his wives and they've completely forgotten his children in all this mess. Does no one care about how humiliated they must feel with a father and a mother who are both unfaithful to each other? Doesn't anyone feel for his daughter, how shattered she must be to see her mother like this, and how it must have affected her own sense of self-esteem? Did it occur to anyone the effect it will have on her socially if she wants to get married in a few years, to have parents who are behaving in this way? Do you realized that other families will now discourage and maybe even prevent their own kids from hanging out with them because of all this unnecessary family drama? Do you think it isn't affecting them all mentally and emotionally? This is a devastating blow to his children and he needs to know that, because whether he feels it or not his kids still need him to be father to them, and now he's completely destroyed their ability to trust him! And all this for what? To what purpose and what end? And yes, I made an assumption that he did not raise them in a strong Islamic environment, but I feel that assumption is justified given what he's said about his own upbringing and that he has only recently become more religious himself. His children will be aware of his changes and will be watching his behavior to see how it affects him, and this is what they're seeing and it's wrong.

      In any case I apologize to the brother and I hope that my comment was not hurtful to him, I wasn't trying to be. And I said in my original comment and will repeat it again here, that I do think the relationship with his children can be salvaged. It will be easier if he chooses to repair the relationship with the mother, but even if he decides to stay with his new wife he can still treat their mother kindly and with respect, and that will help tremendously in repairing the damage to his children.

      • I will also add that I am probably over sensitive to this because I've seen how in Arab families, the children often bear the brunt of their parents mistakes long after the parents themselves have moved on. The children are often haunted by a stigma they did nothing to earn, while their parents and especially the fathers are able to brush off the past, more or less. The effect on the children is both personal psychologically, and socially in that it affects their relationships and their prospects for marriage, and they are often the victims of unending gossip even years after the situation is over. I am truly hope that this is not what happens to the OP's children or the children of anyone here, as it is an unbelievably cruel fate and it is often what taints the children's relationships with their parents and prevents them from healing and rebuilding those relationships.

        • I didn't feel the need to address you directly sister/brother NE. It was advice to myself and everyone else who may benefit from it. I'm sorry if you felt it was personal, it was not intended that way.

          • Your probably right, I feel I was a little harsh too, but it just made me upset to see how he betrayed his wife, and now wants some kind of solution to undo the damage, he really just needs to place himself in his wife's shoes and it'll all make sense.

  8. Well said @Hopefulsis

    Here in the forum---there are some people who are directly rushing to the blames and other de-motivating pieces of words INSTEAD OF GIVING ADVICE ON THE SUBJECT MATTER.
    No one is perfect as long as s(he) is in this world. ANY THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANY ONE. Let us NOT OVER-REACT to those advice seekers.
    MAY ALLAH GUIDE US FIRST then we will be in better POSITION TO ADVICE OTHERS.

  9. OP: To make a long story short, my friends from the masjid helped me get in touch with a man in Yemen who wanted a husband for his daughter. At first, he was reluctant to allow her to marry a foreigner, but I managed to convince him. I married his daughter, who was very happy to come to England and she didn't mind at all that she was my second wife.

    How did you get your 2nd wife a Visa to come to England? Does England recognize polygamy?

  10. This is a really silly question but what does OP actually stand for ?

  11. posts involving cheating,divorcing, or zina always seem to get the most comments where as the other posts get limited responses , is the purpose of this website to give advice or be on either the op's side or against them and rant on about what they did is so wrong or what happened to them is so wrong, whats further interesting is that its mostly the same people on these kind of posts who choose to judge others just because they themselves have had a bad relationship in the past. What do you gain from judging someone who is need of help or comes here because they may have no one else to turn to. Does anyone bother reading the tabs at the top of the page where it says how to give advice

  12. Hello Dear,

    Since, the problem started with you and you are the problem, then you have to face the consequences like suffering and dilemma.

    Suggested options to wit:

    1. Wait for the time until your first wife will be fed up from you and declare that it's over. Until she ask for divorce then accept it. Time to go to your second wife, then enjoy your life until you find your third wife...LOL....

    2. You got to choose, the first or the second, end of the problem.

    Hope you find it simple.

    Thanks..

  13. Salaam My brother
    You haven't done anything wrong... She has no right to be upset at you or treat u so badly. What she is doing is totally wrong and immoral... Don't divorce her if it will hurt ur children but I wouldn't continue to have any relations with a wife who was unfaithful.
    I suggest u cling to your second wife ... Inchallah she is a good wife and future mother. She seems to be a wonderful muslimah who understands the Islamic or Muslim faith.
    Regardless u don't deserve the treatment from your first wife. She is Christian I understand but she can't be mad at u for following your faith.
    What she is doing is haram.
    I wish u luck my brother.

    • So, Ana, in your estimation the brother did nothing wrong? Then your knowledge of Islam is woefully lacking.

      "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28

      "Only they forge the lies who do not believe in Allah's communications, and these are the liars." (16:105)

      And the Prophet Muhammad (sws) said:

      Abdullah ibn ‘Amr (RA) says that Rasulullah (SAW) said: “Four traits whoever possesses them is a hypocrite and whoever possesses some of them has an element of hypocrisy until he leaves it: the one who when he speaks he lies, when he promises he breaks his promise, when he disputes he transgresses and when he makes an agreement he violates it.” (Muslim and Bukhari)

      What do you think the brother told his wife when he traveled to meet his second wife, or when he was away spending time with her? Of course he lied. This entire second marriage was built on lies. It's disappointing how many Muslims do not realize this, or do not think it is important, or rationalize it. It's as if you want to pick and choose what it means to follow Islam.

      It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said:

      “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: ‘Truthfulness is righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. A person will continue to tell the truth until he is written with Allah as one who tells the truth. Lying is evildoing, and evildoing leads to Hell. A person will keep on telling lies until he is written as a liar.’”

      It's also sad that you are unable to see things from the perspective of the first wife. Presumably this is because she is non-Muslim, and therefore her life has less value or meaning to you. Isn't she a human being with her own rights as well? And isn't she the mother of his children?

      He says she was a wonderful wife. So she gave him a good life for many years, gave him children, and then one day he shows up with another, younger woman. How do you think she felt? Abandoned, probably. Unwanted. Betrayed, lied to. And from her perspective there is no such thing as polygamy, so his relationship with the second woman is no more than adultery.

      I do not justify her behavior. Adultery is wrong in all circumstances. But so is deception, and abandonment of one's spouse. Instead of trying to work things out with the woman who gave him so many good years, he secretly went and selected a younger wife. Picture yourself in this exact position and ask yourself how you would feel.

      Wael
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  14. Just another example of what I was implying, I don't understand why the mods allow judgemental , sarcastic, hurtful comments to be published (im not just talking about this post in specific but many of the others) , when it says that this isn't a anything goes forum at the top and when the requirements of the "how to give advice" are being violated.

  15. I'm sorry to comment again, but I just feel a real sense of anger right now and it's not directed at this brother in particular - May Allah help him as I truly believe he feels remorse for the situation he has created. But over the last several weeks on this website I have noticed a pattern I feel is very insiduous and I have to say something. Perhaps this post is not the place to say it, but here goes:

    There is a type of mentality I believe is contributing to a lot of these "self-created" problems if you will, and that is a belief that in a relationship the man's needs, wants and desires are paramount and more important than those of the woman. Let's take a sampling of some of the most recent posts: we have a young man who wants to know why he can't rape his wife (a theoretical question, but not any less disturbing or terrifying for being so), a husband who feels justified in divorcing his wife because she nagged him about his cheating on her, a young man threatening the Ummah that he'll get a girlfriend because it has failed to find him a wife on demand, and the multiple men who have come here to ask if they can marry their nieces! Those are just a few, and there a many posts and comments I could reference that exhibit the same type of mentality. We have to ask ourselves why we have Muslim men asking such questions and putting themselves in such situations. It's not simply a matter of making a mistake - many of their follow up comments indicate that this is part of a pattern of behavior, and it's also not that they are bad people, because many also, like the OP, feel remorse when things inevitably go south. It may be just innate selfishness and immaturity, but those are characteristics present in all of us, myself included. So what is going on here then?! I believe there is a culturalization process that teaches these men that they're wants and needs and rights in a marriage are simply more important than anything else. Oh, it's nice to be considerate of ones wife, but the rights that REALLY matter, the desires that are TRULY important, are those of the husband. And the worst part is that often this culturalization is linked to Islam!!! Look at the OP, he began going to the mosque and made some good, religious friends, and what happened? Instead of encouraging him to invite his children and wife to learn more about his religion, they found him a secret second wife! And why? Because he doesn't feel "needed" and so of course his wife is responsible for this because she didn't use her psychic woman powers to deduce his needs and bend over backwards to meet them.

    Let's set the OP aside. On this very forum, how many times do we see people quoting hadiths about prostrating to ones husband (!!!!), the shame of being cuckolded, and how the Angels curse a woman who doesn't come running to her husband the instant he snaps his fingers? Compare that to how many times we see someone quote the Prophet when he said that the best among us is the one who is the best to his wife, and his last khutbah where he stressed the rights of women. Let's see how many people here, men and women, counsel wives to stay with abusive husbands and hope it'll get better, and advise men to divorce "disobedient" wives. And when we do see posts like this where the man is clearly at fault, more often than not it is women who are advocating for the wife and explaining her point of view. When the men do comment, it is often with a tepid "oh brother, no marriage is perfect, don't divorce just yet" response. And yet they feel very strongly when the woman is at fault! What is the implication? It's that men's rights are more important than women's rights, and what men want is more important than what women want. This is not Islam!!! It is WRONG, and the implications are very serious! Not only are whole families at stake when we raise men to believe that they are the most important people in their families, there are others watching and learning from this behavior and it affects our whole societies. Nonmuslims, like this mans wife and her family and friends, are watching and drawing conclusions, and young Muslims whose faith has been weakened by an environment that is already hostile to our religion, such as his children, are watching and drawing conclusions, and those conclusions are not pretty. They are learning that the more religious a Muslim man becomes, the less likely he is to treat his wife and the women in his life as his equals, as human beings who have needs and wants and desires that are just as important and just as valid. Astaghafirullah, is this what should be said of Muslim men who have strong iman and try to stick to the path of our Prophet! Is this the example we as Muslims, who are supposed to be the best of Ummahs, should be setting to the world? Absolutely not! The Muslim man should be the most faithful, loving, respectful, understanding and kind man to his wife, and the Muslim woman should in turn be the most faithful, loving, respectful, understanding and kind woman to her husband. The Muslim couple should be an example to people of all faiths and cultures of what a healthy, strong marriage looks like, but sadly for us all that is far from the case today. And it will continue to be the case, so long as men are taught that are more important than women and that that mentality somehow has any basis in Islam.

    • Sister ,

      I think you have mixed lot of topics and have created a mixed post where some body needs to pick each sentence and reply 🙂

      See ,there is simple ground rules Muslims or majority of people who comments in this forum follows

      1) If woman is in bad abusive marriage and facing difficulties then majority comments to divorce the husband

      2)If a man is in to bad marriage ,his options are a)Divorce b)Or take second wife

      3)When a man has wife who go and do zina with other men and there is no chance of her repentance then majority of comments are for men to divorce such wife .

      4)If married man is doing adultery and no chance of repentance it is a valid ground for woman to take divorce and vice versa .

      5)If a man is not fulfilling his financial responsibilities and if it is creating big mess in wife , majority advises to divorce such husband .

      6)If a man or women are not sexually satisfied with each other that also can be ground for Divorce ..Same for both husband and wife but should be careful as there can be some other good part ..

      I remember you said you have commented in other post as you are a young practicing muslimahs who has kept her chaste . And i think people who do less sins have other type of views where they expect others to be perfect . Like the way some body wrote he is not finding perfect muslimahs but he is chaste ...I

    • NE, I think what your saying is true and needs to change. Men's rights in Islam are what seem to be emphasized a lot and many Islamic cultures are very patriarchal and women are seen as second class. Although many people will deny this to protect the name of Islam. But Muslims need to face the social problems within their communities. '' Allah will only change a people's condition until they change what is within themselves.'' I do not know if it is cultural or a misinterpretation of Quran and Hadith but women are seen as slave of husbands and also just a sexual toy having to have relations whenever her husband calls her as the hadith says. This would be hard especially for girls and women who were sexually abused in childhood to feel again like they are just objects only there for pleasing a husband with no boundaries and no ability to say no. I think this hadith is read out of context with the whole of Islam and other hadiths that support justice, women's right and human rights. The Quran supports justice and is against any kind of oppression. I also took a class and the teacher was saying how women are inferior to men and that men are their superiors and men are more intelligent , more courageous and stronger. Yes men are physically stronger and women need help when they have children but in no way are men more intelligent then women or more courageous. Women may be emotional but so are men and many men are more emotional in that they can not control their rages at women and hit them and this is also too emotional. We can not go back to the dark ages but sometimes it seems Muslims support these dark age view of women. There are many narcisstic men out there. Marriage is not everything in Islam. We need to protect abused women and children and Allah allows divorce. But it is true the stories on here seem to support the rights of men and the narcissitic need of men to have everything they want and to oppress women. Men in many Islamic cultures and western cultures as well grow up with a sense of entitlement. They feel they are above all and can hit and abuse women. Studies have shown that this sense of entitlement is what makes men abusive. There is a good book by Lundy Bancroft called ''Why does he do that'. It explains why abusive men will not change because they feel so entitled to do what they want there is no reason to change abusive behavior towards women. The Islamic world needs to work from within on its problems of abuse towards women and children and beliefs and attitudes about women and children. The umma will not improve until it is more just and stops oppression towards one another and cares more for all its people poor or rich and especially women and children and their rights too.

  16. I am not sure this type of forum can create negative mindset as sister NE seems to be little negative after reading many posts in this forum ..

    Some times this forum looks like confession box ??

    Doe it really help people ? Or create negative mindset in people ?

    Or can editors remove entire stories and just filter those and post like X , Y,Z has this problem and the solution for it ?

  17. Assalaamu Alaykum,

    This story sounds surprisingly like another I've heard about online, only the wife in the situation blogs about her way of managing it. Interestingly, the name of her Muslim husband is also "Mark".

    In that woman's case, she chose to "marry" the other man, but in the end "Mark" divorced the second wife and is now living with a polyandrous first wife.

    I suppose if you follow my fellow editor's (Midnight Moon) advice in the first offer to remain married to both and try to work it out, you may find that your first wife continue on in the same manner and "marry" (not officially of course, but perhaps whatever she considers married- after all I am assuming your legal marriage is to your first wife and your second marriage is not recognized in the UK) her other man.

    Like Midnight moon stated, there is no option here that is going to keep you out of the way of pain. There is no guarantee that even if you divorce your second wife, your first wife will keep her word to end the relationship with her other lover. There are risks and weighty factors all the way around.

    I believe what is most important in all this is your hereafter. There is where you will be questioned and must answer for all the ways you have contributed to the situation and choices you now face, as other's have clearly outlined. If you really want a chance of avoiding punishment there, then try to get clear on the option that is going to bode well for you best in that context. I don't think anyone will be able to advise you who to keep or who to get rid of, or to keep both or get rid of both. Ultimately you are in a situation right now where only Allah can help you.

    Besides all that, you've made some grievous wrongs as you know. You need to seek forgiveness from those you've hurt. I can't help but wonder if you've been less than honest about anything with your second wife. Referring to the similar situation I mentioned before, that "Mark" was actually sterilized after having children with his first wife, but misled his second wife to believe that he could bear children with her. When they couldn't have any, he actually blamed her for being infertile to keep up the ruse. It just goes to show that when people start on the path to deception, it spreads so far and wide. As Allah said, when someone lies, and they continue to lie, eventually Allah writes them to be a liar.

    -Amy
    IslamicAnswers.com Editor
    .

  18. As salam aliaikum, all

    We are not to decide what is good and what is bad, dear bucks please dont use your expierence to sugfest others about religion, you may suggest your expierence other than islam, when it comes to islamic suggestion you have to suggest only using prophet swas, sahabas, tabayen, life. They are only led good life according to islam

    Is is not compulsary to tell first wife or ask her permission for second marriage, he is not betrayer, he was not proper in religion not following correctly so in that situation he married christian who is ahl e kitab, but the brother did one mistake he did not tried to convert when he was completely aware of islam, in the islamic thinking he married second wife who is muslim that is not wrong. It is the first wife who went into wrong path, because she is still following christianity she will not listen to islamic concept of polygamy and polyandry.
    Even in christianity polyandry is not allowed.

    Brother sorry for all people making you confuse. The right decision will be yours being muslim its your responsibility to look after both kindly but your first wife in revenge she is doing adultry and you have mentioned she is happy with that man, it is indeed not accepted in islam, think brother you wand to please your wife or please allah. If you go with allah you have to guide your first wife the correct path, if she does not listen leave her( sorry for the opinion) here i dont know about your child that he/she is muslim or not, the direct way to deal is quran ask any mufti for beter solution.

    Qllah says in quran, qul yaa ahlal kitab taalau ila kalimatin sawaim bainana wa bainakum allah nabuda illalla.
    (Sorry if there is any spelling mistake) say to the ahalal kitab that is jews and christian come to the common terms that are in us and you and worship only allah. If not it is not axcepted in islam let them live with their religion which is mention in sura e kafiroon,

    If your first wife is muslim and you married second wife with out her knowledge you mad to please both allah and your wife,
    And people never mention person married second time as betrayer, in sura e nisa allah says marry the women of your choice 1, 2 , 3 or 4, if you are not able to provide equal needs then you marry one, marry only one written in only quran other than any religious book on the face of earth. That brother may able to look after both so he is not wrong choosing second wife

    • Mohammed, what experience ? I'm not part of a polygamous marriage, I'm not saying that in islam you need your first wife's permission to marry again, but where is Islam does it tell you to have a secret second marriage ?? also, I think if someone is non Muslim, they are less likely to be tolerant of polygamy especially if it's not a part of their religion or culture and I think that should have been taking into account.

    • It may not be compulsury to tell a first wife about a second wife but then it is a breach of trust and dishonest. There is no true marriage without trust and communication. A wife could never trust her husband again if he hid such a big decision as a second marriage from her. Trust is the basis of marriage. With all the dishonest men out there women must be extremely cautious as to who they choose as a husband. There just are very few honest,loyal and compassionate men out there. In that case its best to remain single if there are hardly in truly honest and men of good character for marriage. All women should be independent and so they do not have to depend on marriage in today's world with so many dishonest men. A woman can be happy worshipping Allah by herself ,working and doing charity and improving her deen living alone much better then if she is abused by husband ,oppressed, cheated on lied to or mistreated. We are here to worship Allah alone and that is our purpose. If a husband helps us grow as a person and become closer to Allah then that is what Allah wants if a husband hurts us and abuses us that is not what Allah would want for any woman.

      • "There just are very few honest,loyal and compassionate men out there"

        -If someone said this about women , then there would be riot started here

        I thought as a muslim your suppose to assume the best about your brothers and sisters.

        • Sometimes a riot needs to be started, but 7 minutes after the comment is a bit soon! 🙂

          On a serious note, yes, it is hurtful to read comments about our Muslim Brothers and Sisters and that there are not many left. It is hurtful because we are not islands. We have daughters, sons, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts, and so on--I don't like people talking about any of Brothers and Sisters in Islam like that.

          Remember, Dear Brothers & Sisters:
          It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us: “When the Day of Resurrection comes, the people will surge with each other like waves. They will come to Adam and say, ‘Intercede for us with your Lord.’ He will say, ‘I am not fit for that. Go to Ibraaheem for he is the Close Friend of the Most Merciful.’ So they will go to Ibraaheem, but he will say, ‘I am not fit for that. Go to Moosa for he is the one to whom Allaah spoke directly.’ So they will go to Moosa but he will say, ‘I am not fit for that. Go to ‘Eesa for he is a soul created by Allaah and His Word.’ So they will go to ‘Eesa but he will say, ‘I am not fit for that. Go to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).’ So they will come to me and I will say, I am fit for that.’ Then I will ask my Lord for permission and He will give me permission, and He will inspire me with words of praise with which I will praise Him, words that I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those words of praise and I will fall down prostrate before Him. He will say, ‘O Muhammad, raise your head. Speak and intercession will be granted to you, ask and you will be given, intercede and your intercession will be accepted.’ I will say, ‘O Lord, my ummah, my ummah!’ He will say, ‘Go and bring forth everyone in whose heart there is faith the weight of a barley-grain.’ So I will go and do that. Then I will come back and praise Him with those words of praise and I will fall down prostrate before Him. He will say, ‘O Muhammad, raise your head. Speak and intercession will be granted to you, ask and you will be given, intercede and your intercession will be accepted.’ I will say, ‘O Lord, my ummah, my ummah!’ He will say, ‘Go and bring forth everyone in whose heart there is faith the weight of a small ant or a mustard-seed.’ So I will go and do that. Then I will come back and praise Him with those words of praise and I will fall down prostrate before Him. He will say, ‘O Muhammad, raise your head. Speak and intercession will be granted to you, ask and you will be given, intercede and your intercession will be accepted.’ I will say, ‘O Lord, my ummah, my ummah!’ He will say, ‘Go and bring forth from the Fire everyone in whose heart there is faith the weight of the lightest, lightest grain of mustard-seed.’ So I will go and bring them forth.”

          When we left Anas I [the narrator of the hadeeth] said to some of our companions, “Why don’t we go to al-Hasan, who is hiding in the house of Abu Khaleefah, and tell him what Anas ibn Maalik has told us?” So we went to him, greeted him with salaam and he gave us permission to enter. Then we said, “O Abu Sa’eed, we have come to you from your brother Anas ibn Maalik, and we have never heard anything like what he narrated to us about intercession.” He said, “Tell me.” So we narrated the hadeeth to him and we came to this point and he said, “Keep going.” We said, “He did not tell us any more.” He said, “He told me this hadeeth when he was a young man, twenty years ago. I do not know if he forgot or if he did not want to let you depend on what he might have said. We said, “O Abu Sa’eed, tell us.” He smiled and said, “ Man was created hasty. I only mentioned that because I wanted to inform you of it. Anas told me the same as he told you, and said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) added: “Then I will come back a fourth time and praise Him with those words of praise and I will fall down prostrate before Him. He will say, ‘O Muhammad, raise your head. Speak and intercession will be granted to you, ask and you will be given, intercede and your intercession will be accepted.’ I will say, ‘O Lord, give me permission (to bring forth) all those who said Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah.’ He will say, ‘By My Might, My Majesty, My Supremacy and My Greatness, I will most certainly bring forth from it those who said Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 7510)

          Please watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIGgSKwkOAY

          Entire Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCgJGMDQPAg

          Please do watch--inn shaa Allah it will benefit it us.

          •The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

          “Some people will come on the Day of Judgement and their Imaan will be outstanding, it’s light will shine from their chests and from their right hands. So it will be said to them, ‘Glad tidings for you today, Assalamu ‘alaikum and Goodness for you, Enter into it (Jannah) forever!’ So the Angels and the Prophets will be jealous of the Love of Allah for them.”

          So the Sahabah asked, “Who are they, Ya Rasoolullah?” He (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) replied, “They are not from us and they are not from you. You are my companions but they are my beloved. They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’an) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them. So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them. So they read them and teach them (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced.

          Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you. The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’. Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet) and they will find no helper towards the truth. So they will be surrounded by tyrant rulers in every place, and they will be in the surroundings of Baitul-Maqdis (Al-Quds, Masjid al-Aqsa). The Nussrah (Help and Victory) of Allah will come to them, and they will have the honour of it on their hands.” Then he (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) said, “O Allah, give them the Nussrah and make them my close friends in Jannah.”
          [2] Reported by Ahmed #17561, chain #77. Hasan according to Ibn Hajr

          So, even if we feel distressed by some posts, let's remember the Prophet, peace be upon him, had high hopes for us and knows our challenges. May Allah swt protect us, unite us and help us to forgive one another, Ameen.

      • I think your response is more or less similar by some brother where is says he is not marrying because real muslimahs don't exists .

        http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/giving-up-hope-of-marriage-because-real-muslimahs-dont-exist/

        I disagree with both type of generalization .

        • mines or hers?

        • If you meant mine , then no its not because I didn't pin any accusations like he was on how real muslimahs don't exist and how merva is by stating with all the non honest men out there. Its felicitous you pointed that post out, because it only adds to my point and how when someone says something wrong about a women on here everyone is quick to come to their defence , but when someone says something wrong about men it goes unnoticed, just like mervas comment would of If I didn't point it out.

          Thank you for linking that post, now I will wait and see just how many people comment on how it is wrong to assume how very few good man exist. (probably no one will)

          • Lol, Star. I was about saying the same thing to Sister Merva, and then I saw yours. 🙂

            @Brother Demise.

            Maybe it's because our mothers and sisters are precious golds, and therefore they should not be mentioned and discussed except with respect and honor. Please don't forget that in Islam, women must be respected three times more than the respect for men. Don't ask me of the wisdom behind that, and Allah Ta'ala knows best.

      • Assalaamualaikam

        While I agree that a woman can be better off alone than with an abusive husband, it's not really fair to say that there are very few good men out there. There are many good and pious brothers, including some brothers who contribute to this site, just as there are many good and pious sisters. Let's try to think the best of our brothers and sisters in Islam, and pray that Allah guides us all to have successful marriages inshaAllah.

        Midnightmoon
        IslamicAnswers.com editor

        • @issah

          I can understand the mothers being more respected then your father. But where does it say that women must be respected 3 times as more. I thought they were equal.

          • 2. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then youR father. (Bukhari, muslim)

          • @Brother Demise,

            What do you mean by ''you thought they were equal?!'' Equality in what?! Equality in carrying a fetus in their wombs?! Or equality in the sense that each one has fair rights given to them by Allah 'azza wa jal?! If you thought that they were equal, then why are mothers respected three times more than fathers in Islam?! Are they not equal too?!

            When you understand what is a man and what is a woman, then you will know the wisdom behind why a mother is respected more than a father, and then again, you will know that, the respect for a mother is not only limited to her alone, but also extends to any creature that is in the form of our mothers--this is how you prove your respect to your mother. You can't respect your mother, and then disrespect another woman--this is hypocrisy. Just as you respect your mother three times more than your father, you also respect other women three times more than other men.

            This is just a simple logic.

          • demise: I can understand the mothers being more respected then your father. But where does it say that women must be respected 3 times as more. I thought they were equal.

            How can you respect some one three times more then another person? Any example?

        • Br. Issah,

          *Jazak Allah*

          It is good to see you commenting again after a long time.

          • Jazak Allah khair al-Jaza Sister Saba. 🙂

            I've been busy for a while now, but I plan on returning to this site soon, in shaa Allah--I'm already addicted to this beautiful site. Lol.

        • This is true and is not fair to say . But I do think men and boys are growing up in their cultures with a sense of entitlement and they are not taught to respect girls and women. There are so many of the same horrible stories here and so something is horribly wrong. I think women should be very careful to make sure they chose a good brother and if they do end up in abuse that they know to get out and not accept mistreatment or abuse. That is what I am saying. But if marriage is the only choice for some women in Islamic countries then they are helpless and I do not agree with the total dependence on men that some Muslims live by such as a woman has to have a guardian or man and can not make her own decisions. Not all women can get married or depend on a husband as many women may not find a suitable match and one that would complete there deen. As I said marriage should make a woman grow in her religion not cause trauma. Too many here seem to think saving a marriage is all that is important for women even if they take abuse or a many having other wives but treating the first wife horrible. Women need to be strong Muslim women who can be a good example for our daughters . The more women who say no to abusive marriages and mistreatment by men the stronger Muslim marriages will become because women will chose good husbands and only stay with a good husband.

  19. Dear wael,

    ana did'nt tel that first wife is'nt doing wrong, but in this situation first wife is betraying mark.

    • Assalaamu alaykum,

      Brother, you are mixing up legality and morality. If you are essentially saying he was not "wrong" in that he didn't violate a clear aspect of sharia, then many would agree with you. But the inconsideration and deception in taking a second wife secretly, and knowingly and willingly causing such pain to his first wife unnecessarily, THAT sure is wrong morally.

      -Amy
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  20. Sorry bucks i did not say that you have polygamy expierence, expierence is a lesson which we learn from our mistake and others too or hearing or reading or learning. Even i did not mention if she is non muslim she should tolerate, more so i have mention because she is still in her religion she will not accept islamic concept,

    People We are not here in discussion please suggest that person what is correct in his situation instead of calling him betrayer, lier, and so on... and even we don't know that the first wife is doing adultry or not. She may be just telling this to him to leave his second wife, women have equal rights in islam, it does'nt mean equal in all, and mark has not cheated his first wife by keeping his second marriage secret. He still loves his first wife so he is searching for solution, but that women kept quit for few days not talking, keeping herself in dark and these all accepted but having relation with other person is wrong and not tolerated if she may be muslim or non muslim.

    • Just to clarify, it does not appear she just "kept quiet for a few days". He explained that she went into a depressive state each time he went to his second wife. She self harmed. That is serious. Any husband who could see that happening to someone he claims to care about, and still believe he is not doing wrong is obviously out of touch with basic human decency.

      Brother, I don't think anyone will side with you that his secrecy and willingness to hurt his wife this way was acceptable. it baffles me how you keep saying it was ok, just because she responded with adultery. What if she hadn't? What if she just continued to self harm and stay locked in her room, not bathing or eating? Would you still think it's all fine? No big deal that he lied and kept secrets and now she can't know what to believe or trust at a time her whole world has been turned upside down?

      -Amy
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

    • Assalam alaikum,

      When a man and woman marry in Islam, they are supposed to make it public and not keep the marriage secret--give me one example, JUST ONE, of where in Islam did a Prophet or one of the Sahaba marry a woman and keep the marriage secret?

      And since one is supposed to make the marriage in Islam PUBLIC, a man, a REAL man, a man with conviction, a Allah-fearing man, would tell his wife (or any current wives) what he was going to do rather than find out after with the rest of the public. Women are emotional, they say, and then what do we advocate? Trample over their feelings.

      Of course what his wife is doing wrong--it doesn't make a rocket scientist to figure that out. But for a moment, could people STOP telling this man that what he did was right and acceptable, because it isn't--and there are not any such examples in our Deen.

    • Bother Mohammed essentially what your saying that he can have a second wife in Islam is permissible but you also need to understand that his reasons for a second wife and the way he went about organising his second marriage was compeltly wrong.

  21. @issah

    It was my misunderstanding , I read about how islam is about justice not about equal. Here is some of the stuff I found: [al-Ra’d 13:16]

    ‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

    [al-Hadeed 57:10]

    ‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

    [al-Nisa’ 4:95]

    Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

    Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.”

    Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah, 1/180-181

    Based on this, Islam does not regard men and women as equal in matters where regarding them as equal would result in injustice to one of them, because equality that is inappropriate is a severe form of injustice.

    The Qur’aan commands women to wear clothes that are different from those worn by men, because of the differences in the ways each sex is tempted by the other. The temptation posed by men is less than the temptation posed by women, so the clothes that women should wear are different than the clothes that men wear. It makes no sense to tell women to expose the parts of the body that men are allowed to expose, because of the differences in the temptation posed by a woman’s body and a man’s body – as

    The prophet was talking about someone's mother , and father, not all women are your mothers. Why are you brining disrespect in to this? I never suggested to disrespect anyone

    Issah: "you also respect other women three times more than other men"

    This is just a simple logic.

    -Where does it say, that all women who are not your mother should be respected 3 times as more then a men. Don't apply your logic to things , because logic like yours seems only logical to you.

    Men ought to respect women as their equals in their rights:“And women have rights similar to the rights against them according to what is equitable. But men have a degree over them.” (2:228).

    -So how exactly should random women be respected 3 times as more as random man? (who are not your mother)

    -This is the second times im asking you the same question, and you have not replied with a hadith or quranic verse, so unless you have evidence of respecting women (NOT MOTHERS) 3 times as much , don't bother replying based on your so called "logic"

    • I don't know the answer to your question, but it is interesting that in the Quran Allah swt says:

      "And when the news of (the birth of) a female (child) is brought to any of them, his face becomes dark, and he is filled with inward grief! He hides himself from the people because of the evil of that whereof he has been informed. Shall he keep her with dishonor or bury her in the earth? Certainly, evil is their decision." (An-Nahl 16:58-59)

      So, females, from the beginning of time haven't exactly enjoyed even their birth being good news.

      But our Prophet, peace be upon him, told us:

      "Whoever takes care of two girls until they reach adulthood - he and I will come (together) on the Day of Resurrection - and he interlaced his fingers (meaning in Paradise)." (Reported by Muslim)

      "Whoever has three daughters or sisters, or two daughters of two sisters, and lives along with them in a good manner, and has patience with them, and fears Allah with regard to them will enter Paradise." (Reported by Abu Dawud, Al-Tirmidhee and others)

      And in another Hadith: "They will be a shield for him from the Fire." (Reported by Ahmad and Ibn Maajah)

      I will let Br. Issah answer you, but thought I would share the above for the importance given to females in Islam and how they may be a means to Jannah.

      • Man and women are compliments to each other, as far as my understanding.

        -Brother issah cannot answer my question, because every where I have read and asked they all state that a women and man are neither inferior nor superior to one another.

        Allaah says ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women’ meaning that the man is in charge of the woman, i.e., he is the leader and head of the household, the one who disciplines her if she goes astray.

        ‘because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other’ i.e., because men are superior to women and are better than women. Hence Prophethood was given only to men, as was the position of khaleefah, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘No people shall ever prosper who appoint a woman as their ruler.’ This was narrated by al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakrah from his father. The same applies to the position of qaadi (judge), etc.

        ‘and because they spend (to support them) from their means’ refers to the mahr and the spending on women’s maintenance that Allaah has enjoined upon men in His Book and in the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So a man is inherently better than a woman, and he is superior to her because he spends on her. So it is appropriate that he should be in charge of her, as Allaah says, ‘but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them’ [al-Baqarah 2:228].

        -But brother issah keeps going on about , how a women should be respected more. Which is is peculiar.

        -Iam also not trying to imply that women are inferior to man. But that both deserve to be respected. In my opinion every creation of Allah should be treated with respect.

    • @Brother Demise,

      Please be aware that I have no issue with the first part of what you wrote--in fact, that is my understanding. Each male and female are equal in receiving fair rights in Islam regardless of how it may appear as inequality to the world.

      You are asking for the evidence of respecting women ''three times'' more than men?! But can you really tell how you can respect a mother ''three times'' more than a father? How do you do it? The ''three times respect'' referred to was just a metaphor by the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam), only to draw your attention to understand the impotence of a mother. It all means that a mother should be more respected than a father for a reason. Likewise, there are many ahadeeth that talk about the impotence of women in Islam, in such a way that every person with simple logic of understanding can understand that women should be treated and respected much more than men for a reason--this is what I meant by a simple logic.

      I will list only two ahadeeth in shaa Allah.

      Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) said:

      ''The most perfect man in his Iman among the believers is the one whose behavior is most excellent; and the best of you (i.e. the best of those whose behavior is most excellent) are those who are the best to their wives'' (At-Tirmidhi)

      Ihsan (i.e. Excellence/Perfection) is the highest level of servitude for Allah, and it's beyond the level of Iman--you need to complete the level of Iman first to reach the level of Ihsan. However, according to this hadith, one cannot reach Ihsan until they are good to their wives--this has never been said regarding men, so grasp the wisdom. I am aware of the sajdah hadith in the case of men, but that is with an impossible condition. However, in the case of women, it's something practical, and you must achieve it first to reach Ihsan.

      Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) said:

      “Treat women kindly, for woman was created from a bent rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is the top part, so treat women kindly.” [al-Bukhaari and Muslim]

      This hadith is very short and in a metaphorical style, however, it contains a lot in reality. It's also the basis for all those ahadeeth that spoke about treating women, little girls, or mothers with respect and kindness.

      Anyone with basic logic of understanding can understand the wisdom in this particular hadith, and the wisdom behind why it was mentioned in the case of women alone, and not men--it's specified for women in general, and not limited to only mothers or wives.

      Knowing this hadith we can conclude that a woman is a special and an emotional creation of Allah that needs to be treated kindly and gently more than the way a man can be treated. This is what is meant by respecting your mother three times more than your father, or respecting women in general three times more than men--forget the term ''three times'' if you can't understand the metaphor in that. What is clear is that a woman should be respected and treated well more than a man.

      Hope this helps in shaa Allah, and Allah Ta'ala knows best.

  22. You are asking for the evidence of respecting women ''three times'' more than men?! But can you really tell how you can respect a mother ''three times'' more than a father? How do you do it? The ''three times respect'' referred to was just a metaphor by the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam), only to draw your attention to understand the impotence of a mother

    This is the hadith: A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your father. (Bukhari, Muslim).

    -No where it says respect but you keep brining it up , it says companionship which is more along the lines of friendship.

    Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) said:

    ''The most perfect man in his Iman among the believers is the one whose behavior is most excellent; and the best of you (i.e. the best of those whose behavior is most excellent) are those who are the best to their wives'' (At-Tirmidhi)

    -It says to your wifes , not all women are your wifes.

    'This hadith is very short and in a metaphorical style, however, it contains a lot in reality. It's also the basis for all those ahadeeth that spoke about treating women, little girls, or mothers with respect and kindness."

    -Never did I mention or imply women should not be treated with respect, but you keep insisting they should be respected more then men, But cannot provide any solid evidence.

    -You keep avoiding quaranic verses , or hadith where it says "RESPECT A WOMEN 3 TIMES AS MUCH as a man" or respect a women more then men . you cannot provide evidence because no such evidence exists.

    Men ought to respect women as their equals in their rights:“And women have rights similar to the rights against them according to what is equitable. But men have a degree over them.” (2:228).

    -Read this hadith , they should both be respected equally.

    "Knowing this hadith we can conclude that a woman is a special and an emotional creation of Allah that needs to be treated kindly and gently more than the way a man can be treated"

    -Ok that's fine , but what does that have to do with respecting women more then man?

    or respecting women in general three times more than men--forget the term ''three times'' if you can't understand the metaphor in that. What is clear is that a woman should be respected and treated well more than a man."

    I don't need to understand the metaphor , because seems like yourself cannot distinguish between treating someone with kindness and honoring one creation of allah above the other , in the name of so called respect.

    -The prophet was only referring to your mother, because a mother goes though a lot to bear for her child a lot more then the father would. But still no where did the prophet say respect your mothers more then your father, this is something your making up, just so you can justify your claim that a women should be more respected then a man.

    -Why should one creation be more respected then another? Why cant you provide any hadiths on respect like the one I have provided.

    Here it is again:Men ought to respect women as their equals in their rights:“And women have rights similar to the rights against them according to what is equitable. But men have a degree over them.” (2:228).

    -You keep going in circles, instead of answering my question.

    Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34]

    -If women are to be so much more respected then man , why are men their protectors, and why does it say Allah has made of them to excel the other.

    -Now since you bring up the logic game so much , where is the logic in respecting the person who is being protected more then the one who acts as the protector?

    Mother’s status is three times more than the father’s.

    وَوَصَّيْنَا الإِنسَانَ بِوَالِدَيْهِ حَمَلَتْهُ أُمُّهُ وَهْناً عَلَى وَهْنٍ وَفِصَالُهُ فِي عَامَيْنِ أَنْ اشْكُرْ لِي وَلِوَالِدَيْكَ إِلَيَّ الْمَصِيرُ

    “And we have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years – give thanks to Me and to your parents. Unto Me is the final destination.”

    -This makes sense as to why a mothers status is higher, no where does it say a women's status is higher then a mans.

  23. Also im not referring to mothers, I already know that a mothers status is higher. Nor am I referring to a wife. Keep that in mind if your going to reply again , to not include mothers or wives, because its quite obvious that a mothers and a wife should be treated with respect.

  24. Brother demise you should refer the women rights in islam, then you will come to know the women rights are equal to men rights, thats what i want to say, this topic is going apart from the question. Let us quit here and ask brother mark to find any mufti, we are not scholors. We are just students in islam.

    Brother amy no book on the face of the earth which teaches moral than the quran if you agree with it you are contradicting yourself.

    Saba sister, you may be right or may be wrong, we all may be right or wrong, pls let us find the solution for the guy, we should make his life better, all are here trying to show up their knowledge, we are weak in islam . So let us discuss this topic with any mufti and find a way.

    • Mohammed ,

      when did I say there not? you should learn to read everything before making a remark. Nor does this have anything to do with the OP

  25. @issah

    Treat women kindly. Woman has been created from a rib and the most bent part of the rib is the uppermost. If you try to turn it straight, you will break it. And if you leave it alone, it will remain bent as it is. So treat women kindly.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

    -This is the actual hadith

    And this is what it means:

    The Hadith then means that if a man wants to be happy with his wife he should not attempt to re-shape her character, but accepts her the way she is and try to be happy by understanding her habits and her personality.

    -Once again this is between a husband and a wife. It doesn't have anything to do with respecting women more.

    • @Brother Demise:

      First of all, before I start explaining the evidences you quoted, one after the other, I'd like you to answer me the following questions.

      1. Does treating someone with respect and honor comes under treating them with kindness or not?

      2. Regarding the following hadith:

      ''Treat women kindly. Woman has been created from a rib and the most bent part of the rib is the uppermost. If you try to turn it straight, you will break it. And if you leave it alone, it will remain bent as it is. So treat women kindly.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

      You limited this hadith to only wives. Do you have any evidence for this limitation? It's very clear that this hadith is general--for women in general, so why are you limiting it to only wives?

      • 1.You don't have to be kind to someone in order to respect them. Respect essentially means, to admire someone.

        -You can admire some qualities of a person and detest others, so its not important to treat them like majesty. For example: Many athletes hate each other but they admit they respect each other

        2.Im not limiting it to wife's only but the interpretation I have read clearly indicates it applies to husband and wife

        Here is the meaning which I already have stated before:

        The Hadith then means that if a man wants to be happy with his wife he should not attempt to re-shape her character, but accepts her the way she is and try to be happy by understanding her habits and her personality.

        -I don't need any explanations , if I needed that I have people I can turn to and I also have google at my disposal.

        -The only thing you need to do is provide evidence of how women need to be more respected then man.

        -This is the 3rd time im asking you. Your cross questioning and avoidance to answer my question with evidence only further shows that its not true and something you are making up in order to justify your claim.

        "and because they spend (to support them) from their means’ refers to the mahr and the spending on women’s maintenance that Allaah has enjoined upon men in His Book and in the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So a man is inherently better than a woman, and he is superior to her because he spends on her. So it is appropriate that he should be in charge of her, as Allaah says, ‘but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them’ [al-Baqarah 2:228].

        -Does the explanation of these verses mean nothing to you?

        ''Treat women kindly. Woman has been created from a rib and the most bent part of the rib is the uppermost. If you try to turn it straight, you will break it. And if you leave it alone, it will remain bent as it is. So treat women kindly.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

        -Furthermore this says be kind to women, which I agree with, I also agree that every women deserves respect and kindness. But no where does it say they deserve more respect then a man.

        -So for the 4th time instead of going in circles and avoiding my question answer me where does it say women are to be more respected.

        -Also im pretty sure you know that making up false info is a sin itself. (ie.women should be more respected)

      • ''The most perfect man in his Iman among the believers is the one whose behavior is most excellent; and the best of you (i.e. the best of those whose behavior is most excellent) are those who are the best to their wives'' (At-Tirmidhi)

        -You should choose the evidence you state more carefully , because it clearly says wives in this one. Then you ask me why am I limiting it to wifes on the other one. A muslim man should lower his gaze when around a non mehram women, So any one with the simplest mindset can understand that he should mostly show respect to his wife , or mother , or daughter. Why would he need to show respect to other women if he doesn't come across them or is aware of their existence? But if there is a situation that allows him to interact with non mehram (for example at his job) then its a given that he should be respectful to all everyone equally , regardless of age, gender, race.

        -You seem to think that I don't understand the importance of women in islam which is not true. But what I don't understand is where do you get this respecting women more then men, and why do u keep avoiding a authentic hadith or quranic verse.

        -If you quote any evidence, that hints women are to be more respected and honored then man , I will gladly accept that and not question it, but since you cant do that im starting to believe you enjoy pointlessly arguing behind a computer screen, and making up false info.

        • @Brother Demise,

          1. You seem to have a different understanding of what respect is, which is making it difficult for you to understand the point I have been making all this while. Treating everyone according to their nature, also means that, respecting them and recognizing what they are. There are certain words you could say to a man, and he can handle them easily, but in the case of women, one needs to be more cautious while saying a word, because you could really damage a woman emotionally with just a word--such as those disgusting words that some men come and write on this site regarding women, and generalizing them. This is because men and women are not the same in their natures. Men are essentially rational beings, and women are essentially emotional beings.

          When it's said that a woman should be respected much more than a man, what it actually means is that, due to her emotional nature, treat her with more gentleness and kindness, more than the way you could ever treat a man--not everything that you could say or do to a man, that you could say or do to a woman--this should be very clear to you if you truly understood the hadith very well.

          2. You limited the hadith to only wives. However, let's see what the scholars say regarding its interpretation.

          ''The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) meant to instruct men of his Ummah; the husbands, fathers, brothers, and other than them, regarding women, and he said, ''Treat women kindly...''
          ............................

          The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) specified the mention of only women (in this hadith), because of their vulnerability, and their need of someone to take care of their fairs. There is no doubt that there is a form of vulnerability in women. However, it's not a bad vulnerability. On one side, it's not something intended by them, and on another side it's a praised and desirable thing.

          As for the unintended side, it's the vulnerability in their structure and body--there is nothing artificial of her in this, and no one should blame them for that. As for the praised side, it's related to the vulnerability of the heart and emotion--meaning the fragility of emotions, and the calmness of nature. There is no doubt that this is a praised thing in women. The more it increases - without excess - the more it becomes gentler and more beautiful.''

          Please read the rest by yourself here:

          http://articles.islamweb.net/media/index.php?page=article&id=182811

          Hope this helps in shaa Allah, and Allah knows best.

  26. W hat I meant is that women should be independent so they are not stuck in a marriage that they are being mistreated in or abused. From all the stories on here it is horrible that so many sisters are being mistreated , abused and not treated well. We need to be extremely careful who we chose as our spouses and be courageous to be alone unless we find a person who is a truly good Muslim in his character. Marriage should bring us more love and build our imman up not oppress us or hurt us in horrible ways. Being dependent is not good or healthy for anyone and causes hoplessness. Teaching our daughters to be independent and get a good education is important and makes women stronger physically as well as emotionally so they have choices in marriage and out of marriage.

  27. Assalaaamualaikam

    Brothers and sisters, we're going quite a way off-topic here. This question will therefore be closed to further comments. If anyone wishes to submit their own question about some of the issues being discussed, they're very welcome to do so, and it will be published and answered in turn, inshaAllah.

    Midnightmoon
    IslamicAnswers.com editor