I’m planning second marriage to a woman in need. How do I address the secular government issues?
Assalamu Aleikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,
Dear Sheikh and scholars of Islam, I hope you can help me with my situation as I have reached a dead end and would like to seek the advice of people of knowledge. May Allah reward you.
I am currently married and would like to marry a second wife Insha Allah. I am an American who lives and works in Singapore and my future second wife is from Indonesia.
The problem is the following: I am planning to make the marriage official in Indonesia, but the Indonesian government requires a document from my embassy called ‘No objection to marriage’. This document cannot be issued by my country because polygamy is illegal in the US. So this means that I cannot make a civil marriage and my marriage will not be recognized by any government offices (neither in Indonesia nor in the US).
I have then thought about making a traditional marriage with the future wife, her father (wali), and two witnesses under the auspices of an Imam followed by a Walimah to publicize the marriage. The problem with this is that if we have children, they will have several difficulties because they will not be issued documents, will not have an official father (on paper) and other problems.
I feel sad for this situation as this woman I am planning to marry is really in need. She is a widow with 2 orphaned daughters who are 10 and 2 years old. I feel our secular governments are making haram what Allah has made Halal and are making the lives of Muslims very difficult. Can you please advise on what to do? I have prayed Istikhara several times and my feeling is positive towards marriage but I still have these issues which have to do with the future of our offspring. Please take note that I am seeking a second wife because my wife cannot have children. Please advise your brother.
Jazakum Allah Khair
Wassalamu Aleikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh
-sloumabs
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Salaams,
I just want to start by saying, we are neither shaykhs nor scholars. We are just laypeople trying to advise others as best as possible insha'Allah, based on our own personal experiences and limited knowledge of Islam.
Unfortunately, I don't have the extensive knowledge about the governing countries you've mentioned to give any meaningful feedback about the situation you are considering. From my heart, what I can tell you is this: if you really believe that Allah is guiding you in this direction, then follow His guidance and trust Him to work out the details. In my experience, when we follow Allah, even when situations seem hopelessly complicated from our cognitive understanding, He has a way of making everything work together for those involved. If it were me, I would go forward with an Islamic Nikkah and take the next steps and days one at a time, and work on each issue that may arise as it comes.
I can say, if your current wife (who I am presuming is also an American citizen) already knows and consents to your intentions, maybe she would be willing to give you a civil divorce (remaining married to you Islamically) to help make the path clearer for you with the second marriage. Then, possibly you can help your second wife attain US citizenship, which would help the concerns you noted about possible future children. However, if you haven't told your current wife about what's going on or if she is not in cooperation with you about this, I'd say you have a bigger problem on your hands altogether.
-Amy
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Salam as a civil divorce could count as an islamic divorce if the husband signs any papers mentionning that the couple is divorced
Even if the intention is not there then it will be counted as a divorce ( check the hadith from abu hurayrah that there are three instance where the a man's statement cannot be taken back regardless of his intention: nikah,divorce and a man taking his wife back after divorce) so even if a man tell his wife that he divorce her in a joking manner, then she is divorced.
I wouldn't advise it and it is also a form of lying.so haraam.
And if it was allowed, then you would have to make an islamic will because only the legal wife would inherit from the husband and the second wife wouldn't so the islamic laws of inheritance would't be respected .
The best thing to do is to explain the situation to the future wife as well as her father if they accept all the difficulties involved then that is fine. And an islamic will would have to be written so everybody's right will be respected.
Salam brother
I understand well your situation but here I just give you farther view about Indonesian marriage law.
Everything you told about polygamy in Indonesia is right. KUA ( office of religious affairs ) which responsible for Muslims marriage in Indonesia will ask men to provide a permit paper from the first wife and because you are from different country you must provide “no Impediment letter” or " No Objection to Marriage " issued by your Embassy. Because after marriage you will register the marriage documents to both countries so both of you will be lawfully legal in US and Indonesia and if you live in Indonesia with your wife you will live under the law of mix couple marriage.
Since your country has no polygamy law and will never issue that paper, the only way is by Islamic Nikah. It means your Nikah is called a secret marriage. I am sorry to say this but it is what happen in Indonesia. Nikah by Imam is halal ( of course with wali and witness ) but lawfully illegal. Marriage documents before coming to KUA as the main office will involve RT ( the lowest administrative which responsible with your future wife residence and around ) and RW ( the next low administrative that responsible with some RTs ). So to publicize your marriage by a walimah I think it is not a good idea, because RT or RW people will probably come to you and ask the needed documents. A few years back Government would sentence Imam who marry couples. It happened because so many men ( mostly ) from Islamic countries marry poor Indonesian women by Mut’ah marriage only or secret marriage and it is done by Imam. They purpose to protect Indonesian women from unregistered marriage which lead them to trouble that may happen in the future. And please be careful of some people who say they can provide you book nikah even your documents are not completed yet. Because there are many bad people who issue fake book nikah just for money. Imam will never have authority to issue book Nikah, only KUA and with legal process.
If you marry your future wife by Islamic Nikah, her status remains widow in her documents. It will not be a problem if both of you don't want to have kids. Indonesia law a little bit unfair still to mix couple marriage ( the legal one ) and moreover the illegal ones. I am talking about the future kids if you live in Indonesia one day. US law may protect your kids if both of you do polygamy in US because I read so many brothers do polygamy there even it is illegal. This is what I can suggest.
Salam
I am in love with Women from Indonesia, but she Lives in Taiwan.
Over two years. We are in love and we are getting Married.
I know i will need a decree from Marriage before, and my Birth
certificate, what other documents will I need. Im also going to convert to
Muslim. We are getting Married in Taipei Taiwan.
We both also have Resident card in Taiwan.
What else will we need.???????
Thank you Please E-mail John
John, I'm not familiar with civil law in Taiwan, so I cannot guide you in these matters. You might also want to check the laws in Indonesia, as I'm sure she would want her marriage to be legally recognized in her home country. I must caution you that if you are converting to Islam only to marry this woman, then you are doing a disservice to both of you. That will not build a long-lasting, happy marriage, as you will find that if you are not sincere about Islam then problems will come up in the future. However, if you are sincere in your faith in Islamic principles, then may Allah guide you and bless your union.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Assalamualaikum,
i am from India and am married person and have a son , and i have plan to marry again from Indonesia , she is divorced and have 2 daughter and 1 kid,
so how can i marry by legally , because my current wife doesn't know about my intention to marry again, and i am not sure about the Islam rules as well, do we need permission from my current wife to get marry again, i am asking if some one can answer for my doubts ,
i have already start a small partnership business in Indonesia, but my friend is working for me i just invest money in it.
so what all documents i should prepare to get marry again
in sha allah i believe i will get good help from you brothers
assalamualaikum
Wa Alaikum as Salam Leeban,
The direct answer to this is that you do not need your wife's permission to marry again. But it is always better to have her consent in order not to affect your relationship.
Additionally, if marriage to this Indonesian sister will make you shift your attention from your current wife, meaning that you won't treat them equal, then you must not marry again.
Allah Permitted you to marry again with a condition that you will deal justly with both of them.
Legally, I suppose India has a law for Muslims allowing polygamy (per the Muslim personal law) while it is not the case for others. Though I am not sure about this. You may have to consult a Muslim lawyer in this regard.
In Islamic terms, if you just did a Nikah with her, in presence of her Wali and with all other conditions of Nikah met, your marriage with her would be valid.
If you need further advise, I request you to login and submit your post separately.
Abu Abdul Bari
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
As salamu alaiqum
You are really taking things is a difficult way. The people who advised you are making you more confused.
USA doesn't allow multiple marriage.
Indonesia will not allow you to marry, unless you get no objection from USA.
Easiest solution is, to marry in some other country. There are some countries where you don't need to be citizen to marry. You just apply for marriage, wait 1-2 months and then marry.
For your second marriage to be legally recognized, it is not mandatory to be held in your or your wife's country.
For example, you and your first wife did not marry in Indonesia. But you are always recognized by Indonesia law as husband and wife. Marry your Indonesian woman in some other country
By the way, Indonesian people are very good in providing confusing information. Their motto is - If you can do anything in difficult way, don't do it in easy way. If you take advice and information from them, you will always be confused.
Note: When marry a girl, it is more important how much you need her. Not how much she needs you
Thanks.
Have a nice day