My 16 year old sister is having sexual relationship with her boyfriend
Asalamalaykum ,
My sister has been very disobedient for the past 2 years, since she was 14 we noticed a change in her. She started to answer back to my parents and her siblings and was skipping school and coming home late. This has been happening for the past 2 years and we found out she has a boyfriend who is using her. he makes her cry and he's got her wrapped around his finger. Whatever he says to do, she does. My family is very upset by this especially my mum who suffers from depression . She steals money from home, goes out and doesn't tell anyone and has also once ran away from home. If we say anything to her she threatens to run away. she blackmails us and we don't know any way out of this.
Please give me advice on what to do , it is futile talking to her as she just laughs in our faces . My family is falling apart because of her , any help or advice will be greatly appreciated inshallah.
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Salam Aleykoum;
About your sister, she's only 16 years old. She cannot get all the context and consequences of what she is doing (that's one of the reasons of why she is under the responsability of your parents.) So talk about it to your father, and explain him that he have to be calm and to explain the situation to your sister and to be firm.
About the man, go confront him face to face and explain him that she is under the responsability of your parents and that if he want to be with her, he have to marry her in the proper way.
In the case that of he is refusing be more persuasive.
Good luck,
Silver99
Assalam alaikum Br.
May Allah ease your family problems, Ameen.
A few things your family may want to try:
* your sister should know that if she wants to be treated like a grown-up, she should behave like one
* any privileges (cell phone, spending money, freedom, electronics etc) should be stopped. For example, if you have a family computer, put a password on it so that she can't use it whenever she wants--she will have to earn that trust back. There should be a consequence for her actions. The consequences shouldn't be yelling at her or degrading her, but rather taking away her freedom to do as she pleases. Again, if she behaves like a 3 year old-she will get treated like one and if she behaves like a grown-up, she will get treated like one--she should know that SHE is in control of how she gets treated and that decision is 100% hers
* given the situation, understand that there is a power-struggle occuring--your sister may be acting out because she feels "powerless" and inorder to regain it, she is doing whatever she can to get the negative attention of her family including boldly showing her "power. It may help to present to her the following argument "If you want to make your own choices, do that, but not the choices of your boyfriend. What is the good in abusing your body while rebelling against your parents/family only to become a slave taking orders from someone else?" All she is doing is taking the authority that is supposed to be that of your parents, and giving it away to someone else, while remaining still powerless. Abusing one's body is never empowerment.
*whatever the rules are for the house, she should know and have to comply--chores, homework, school etc. are things she has to do as being part of a family. Even if she weren't Muslim, these would apply. For now, I wouldn't make every opportunity a chance to give her a lecture on Islam, but talk about the basic manners she is expected to follow through on, and every time she doesn't, she has a consequence. Again, no one, not your mother or father, should yell at her and add to the drama despite the drama that she will probably show herself. Given your description, she will want a yelling match to occur but she will be very confused if no reaction is shown, but instead a calm collected response with just a consequence either stated in words, or delivered in action.
*I also suggest, especially if she won't listen to anyone, to put a few pamphlets about sexually transmitted infections/diseases in her room that she can read about and start to worry about on her own. You can also write a letter to her, that when she is ready to talk and start solving problems, that you and your family are ready for it, but will absolutely not tolerate being disrespected. Tell her that you all love her. Be firm yet loving and never back down--sometimes this is hard for mothers, so perhaps help prepare your mother for what is needed.
I hope that I have addressed your issue, but I am sure that some parts of my advice will be lacking or not applicable--I wrote what I know has worked in my experience-so please disregard anything that is of no use. I pray that you and your family get your sister back--May Allah reunite your family in a strong and loving bond, Ameen, thummah Ameen.
Assalaamualaikam
MashaAllah, excellent advice, sister.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Well, she is underage so she cant even complain. To the police so. Take her back to pakistan or your home country .Because she is not at the stage to understand as she is having a high hormone raise and surely lack wisdom and engulfed with naiveness .
Its time for action rather talking ,, track that guys number and infirm in the police station. , that he is maligning your sisters mind and having sex with under age girl.
lol
Why didn't I think of that?
Seriously, this just says that in Pakistan men can do as they like and women just obey--is that what you are saying?
Assalaamualaikam
Anyone can speak to the police or to anyone in authority if they feel they are at risk. So, she certainly could seek their help if someone tried to forcibly take her to another country.
Your comment kind of implies that it's ok to kidnap someone if they are being disobedient. It is not.
Also, depending on the country, 16 may not be under-age. In the UK, for example, a 16 year old could leave school, get a job and a house, marry and start a family.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Hello,
your prophet Jesus use to say these simple words....a good tree bears good fruit meaning (patience,love,kindness) is found amongst such a person. And a bad tree bears bad fruit.
When a tree is bad we try to cut off the leaves (which represents bad behavior), but guess what it will grow back again Thats why we have to cut it down completely and uproot it, and plant a new healthy tree.
In other words, your sisters issues are deeply rooted in her heart..which is causing her rebellion, anger towards her.family. This is something thats greater than your parents ability she needs psychological help,alongside love and boundaries from your parents.
Teenagers like this need alot of praise for GOOD behaviors,alot of encouragement ,as her sister you.can provide her with alot of love and Positive attention.
please note that teens who are rebellious dont cope well the direct in your face approach it often backfires causing a power struggle,in which then gives her a reason to run to the streets.
Love her, be firm when you have to and encourage her when she does the right thing.
P.s the changes in personality and stealing is often an indication of drug use something your parents may want to explore.
Absolutely agree with you brother Aalim, I bet this family is living in a western country and the teenage girl got hooked by the filthy western culture and the media which encourages teenage boyfriend-girlfriend relations, dating, premarital sex,alcohol, drugs etc etc and she has become disobedient and committing fornication.
Now people will start squirming in their seats and say not all Muslim girls living in the west do things like that and all the Muslim girls in non western countries are not angels, it is true, but the fact of the matter is every individual is not the same, everyone has been given a free will to choose good or bad in life, the society they live in, the company they keep, the family values and in modern times the media all have greater influence in building the character traits of an individual especially in their teenage growing up years.
The western society and cultures role in corrupting the minds of the youths can't be discounted.
Not all drunk drivers get into accidents and kill people on roads, still drunk driving is banned the world over, similarly Islam forbids the free movement of girls and women to save them from fitnah, The Quran tell both men and women to lower their gazes and guard their modesty
Cases like these needs to be dealt with an iron fist before the things gets worst and go out of hand.
The "iron fist" option does not work. It only creates resentment of the parent and Islam. Children must be given a proper Islamic education from early childhood, not with an iron fist but with gentleness, kindness, humor and patience.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Assalaamualaikam
I think it's important to remember that Western countries are diverse, with many cultural differences between them, so we shouldn't say all Western culture is bad.
I think what we often call "Western culture" is more to do with the commercialist, superficial and materialistic lifestyles some people and the media often seem to advertise - which is certainly not a lifestyle conducive to developing spiritual and personal integrity.
As someone who's grown up in the West, I can assure you that many, many people living in Western countries do not see that as a desirable lifestyle or culture. It's also rather offensive to people like myself, who have spent their lives in the West and have a connection with the history and culture of our homelands, to describe our cultures as "filthy". Would you like it if someone said that about your home and heritage?
Saying "all Western culture is bad" is an over-generalisation - given what people sometimes say about us because of our faith, we should appreciate the importance of not making sweeping statements about a society or a group of people based on one aspect which doesn't even apply to many people.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
@ midnightmoon, Please don't get offended, I was referring to a 'specific' western culture and a certain group of media conspiring to promote filth not just in their nation but also in other nations of the world, no doubt there many good and positive things that can be learnt from western society and culture.
You wrote 'I can assure you that many, many people living in Western countries do not see that as a desirable lifestyle or culture', but what I fail to understand is why these people are sitting on the fences for decades and watching the show unopposed of the attempts to degrade their own society and strip it of its moral and religious values.
For eg the country you stay in UK is largely Christian nation ( with its monarch being the head of the "Church of England" )and as far as I know homosexuality is forbidden in the Bible and in Christianity, still a legislation to allow same-sex marriage in England and Wales was passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom in July 2013 unopposed and came into force on 13 March 2014.
Its a open secret that society in UK has been experiencing a surge in issues like teenage pregnancy, drugs abuse, alcoholism, homosexuality, single mothers, child abuse and pornography etc and Muslim community in UK is not untouched by these same issues.
Brother J,
Suppose the poster IS from a Western Culture and the entire family is Caucasian Muslim (and really, WHY are we assuming the poster is from Pakistan--that wasn't mentioned at all) and only have citizenship in that western country--do they still run off to Pakistan?
I have said it again and again, the place you live will not save you from the hell-fire, but the place in your heart that you have for Allah and Islam will.
As for Pakistan and all those Eastern Muslim countries, I will never be shocked at the level of naivety that some of us have regarding the sins that happen there regularly. Living in Pakistan or India (etc.) does not guarantee you Jannah.
And no, it isn't necessarily easier to practice Islam there. No doubt, being able to listen to the Adhaan--nothing like it. There are some things that are incomparable--but I clearly was made fun of for practicing Islam when I visited my family "back home." I was supposed to be "western" and "modern" and all that, but when I wasn't, some of my cousins (and I have over 50 cousins) would mock me for not taking advantage of my freedoms and didn't understand why I didn't do as I please whilst I lived where I did. In other words, they felt that they didn't have the freedom to do as they liked, and had they, they wouldn't wear chadors (as one example). And keep in mind, I come from a very "Moulvi-type" family--so they know full well what is expected from them Islamically--so on the surface some of them do what they are supposed to do because maintaining a "good cover" for society is more of a priority then to impress Allah.
Recently when I visited back home, everyone has a cell-phone. Even the rickshaw drivers have it now and you can call them directly to your home for travel! Rich or poor families, almost every family member has a cell-phone and with the low rates on texting--I noticed a lot of inappropriate interactions between boys and girls--but as long as no one knows, they don't seem to have a "reason" to stop it. There was a lot of other examples I could give--but what I noticed was humans being humans--it is amazing how humans from the East are like the humans from the West!
So this whole Western and Eastern talk of where sins happen more or less has no place in how to raise a teenager. I have seen teenagers going "South" do a full 180 and learn their lessons well. In fact, I remember a friend of mine recently saying how she will help her nephew (he lives abroad) marry a girl only from back home because of the same negative stereotyping and generalizations about girls raised in the West. I couldn't stop smiling because after she finished bashing those girls--I said to her "Remember one thing--you have two daughters that you are now raising in the West--how would you feel if someone looked at your daughters in the same light?" She replied "I never thought of it that way--no way, MY girls are not like that." She moved from abroad to a Western country 4 years ago. I know it didn't occur to her what she was saying was silly because the way she is raising her daughters IS in a far more Islamic environment than I have seen in some homes "back home."
Besides, with the internet and youtube, which border you live within doesn't make much difference. Even dajjal will visit every place in the world--so living in the Pakistan ain't going to save you--except of course Makkah and Madina (correct me if I am wrong). And the person who will reject him will do so based on his own character--which is within our power to influence.
I agree Saba, I don't know why there is a constant reference to this east-west dichotomy. Allah's plan was for me to be born in the "West". So what?
There is a huge misconception amongst some Muslims that the "East" is some type of Islamic utopia where good outweighs evil. Nothing can be farther from the truth.
dajjal is every where now in our days. they are planning to take Islam out of people life but they won't be successful by the will of ALLAH. what is happening in west to us Muslim is very sad to see. it's happening every where in the world even in Saudi which is shocking to know. i couldn't believe it. so now every where in the world every one is brain washed to this modern world. our leader's are controlled by dajjal may ALLAH save us all amin! i feel very sad for those people fool in this trap. i live in west but i hate it so much insALLAH i will be going back home soon. these people don't have the true knowledge. they need more knowledge. i think they should be tough more it is very very bad sin to fall in. my ALLAH protect us all amin!
Assalam alaikum Brother Abdula,
Maa shaa Allah, that you have a home to go back to--but that isn't an option for everyone Muslim or every Muslim revert. As I said earlier, we can make decisions that directly impact our Deen, but we aren't always able to just go physically to another country, or "back home" just doesn't exist.
Yes, definitely, there are so many problems in the West, but I am not sure how much better things are elsewhere especially when it comes to the Media influence. Drugs and alcohol aren't impossible to find in many Muslim countries.
Some of those countries "back home" have people heavily involved in black magic (either doing it or visiting someone who will "cure" it), people giving much wealth for someone to marry their daughter (dowry), property issues because you find several sons living in the same home because culture doesn't promote them to live on their own, people seeking "wazifas" as though one could control Qadr, people visiting religious men called Peers to solve their life problems, people visiting graves of Saints with a false notion that this is how to connect with Allah...and the list goes on. And that is the list of haram things--you can also meet people whose children have had Nikah, but they still consider it a sin if the married couple only meet alone, because culturally they consider Nikah an engagement--so there we have and example of making Halal into something haram.
I have many friends that realized how many myths there were about Islam when they moved the West and didn't realize how much they learnt in childhood wasn't religion at all. Every place has its challenges--but that doesn't mean we should take security in making false sweeping generalizations. Do we as Muslims not feel hurt when the media depicts all Muslims as terrorists and take verses from the Quran out of context? If we deserve a fair chance to be heard and should be considered individuals, it only makes sense to return that very treatment we hope for.
Saba , your reply is too long and overwhelming for me to comment on each and every points you raised.
Suppose the poster IS from a Western Culture and the entire family is Caucasian Muslim (and really, WHY are we assuming the poster is from Pakistan--that wasn't mentioned at all) and only have citizenship in that western country--do they still run off to Pakistan?
It is clear that the family has failed to handle and correct her behaviour. She answers back to parents and her siblings and was skipping school and coming home late, steal from home, blackmails, has a physical relation with boyfriend and her family only feels upset and depressed, give me a break.The girl needs to be taken away from the settings not necessary sent to Pakistan 🙂 , but they can send her to a rehabilitation centre or arrange for advice, counselling and strict monitoring.
I have said it again and again, the place you live will not save you from the hell-fire, but the place in your heart that you have for Allah and Islam will
Beautifully said., but we also need to remember the probability of sinning is higher when you are presented with more opportunities to sin, just like the probability of a soldier dying of bullets is higher on the front lines during a war than in his safe army camp during peace times. A place in your heart that you have for Allah and Islam will save you from hell fire sounds perfect but Shaitan also deceives the hearts, minds and the feelings of humans.
Paradise is surrounded with hardships whereas Hell is encompassed with lusts.
There are some things that are incomparable--but I clearly was made fun of for practicing Islam when I visited my family "back home." I was supposed to be "western" and "modern"
As I understand you are trying to make a point that although you belong to a western country ( and are expected to modern & western woman), but you are more modest, pious and religious than your cousins back home because some of them are doing it to please their parents, relatives and society. Actually, Sister, it Is possible to be a pious, righteous, and devout Muslim, and still fall into grave sins and this is usually seen when some these righteous people falter when they get overexposed to fifth.
Recently when I visited back home, everyone has a cell-phone. Even the rickshaw drivers have it now and .......
This is not a east vs west debate, Muslims should be aware and alert that some elements in the west and in their media have been making deliberate attempts to degrade the society and strip it of its moral as well as religious values and they are also doing it in other nations as well, Muslim countries are waking up to this reality now.
Lastly Saba, neither I live in Pakistan or am a Pakistani and also not a fan of their male dominated society...so celebrate 🙂
Thank you Brother J--then let's not make it into one by mentioning one over the other again and again.
And if we can't blame shaitaan for any of our sins who says in the Quran [7:17 to 18]:
[Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.
Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."
then surely we can't blame for the West either for our personal choices.
Assalamoalikum Brother J
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I think Muslims should stop blaming West for every thing .WE have this mindset "This sounds conspiracy of Jews/Christian" for every problem ..
West has developed YouTube , mobiles so and so and obviously because of these people have easy access to social sites , interacting with non mehrams becomes easy ...So it is because of easy ways SINS are increasing and Not because of Conspiracy ....
I agree with your probability point .
Also sister Saba has mentioned good point ..
.People at eastern countries are more following their cultures rather than Islam so their probability of being in Right path too are not so HIGH ....Challenges are there on both the sides.
"Islam forbid the Free movement of girls and women"
WHAT??!! I had no idea I am to be imprisoned! What Ayat of the Quran forbids the free movement of girls and women??
I hope you know non-Muslims read this site. Please stop writing false and incorrect statements.
Precious star, I used the words 'Islam forbids free movement' and not Islam imprisons women.
By 'free movement'. I mean certain restrictions on travel and social interactions of Muslim females as per Islamic laws.
There are two primary sources of sharia law: the precepts set forth in the Quranic verses (ayahs), and the example set by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the Sunnah.
Allah says in the Quran: "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah . . .[al-Nisaa 4:80] and "O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger . . .[al-Nisaa 4:59]
So, asking for a Quranic ayat/ayats which justifies a sharia prohibition and dismissing the evidence from the hadiths of the Prophet(pbuh) is plain ignorance.
Shari’ah has prohibited intermingling with the opposite genders to avoid immoral contact and relationship between each other.
It is not permitted for a man to be alone with a woman to whom he is not related, whether this is in a house, office, clinic, elevator, car or any other place, because this may be the cause of him doing something haram.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No man is alone with a (non-mahram) woman but the Shaytaan is the third one present.” (Narrated by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, 2092; also in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2546).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said: “Let there be no (non-Mahram) man in seclusion with a woman.” [Al-Bukhaari, Ibn Maajah and Ahmad]
Narrated AbuUsayd al-Ansari: AbuUsayd heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say when he was coming out of the mosque, and men and women were mingled in the road:' Draw back O women, for you must not walk in the middle of the road; keep to the sides of the road' [Abu Daawood (Al-Albaani: Saheeh)]
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to travel the distance of one night’s travel without a man who is her mahram.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1088; Muslim, 1339. This version narrated by Muslim). A limitation was mentioned for this traveling in three days, two days, a day and a night, a night:
- Al-Bukhaari narrated from Ibn Omar (three days), and from Abi Sa’eed Al-Khudari (two days) and from Abi Hurairah (one day and one night) and from Ibn Abbas and Ibn Omar (one day and
one night).
The most liberal opinion is of the Hanafi madhab which states that woman could travel alone on a journey up to 48 miles
It is clear from the above mentioned Ahādith that no man or woman (i.e. non-mahram) should come close to each another unnecessarily. They should avoid crossing paths with one other and abstain from attending the same gathering as men if there are no facilities of hijāb (barrier) and hijāb is not practiced, women have also been forbidden to travel alone or with a non-mahram on overnight journey.
The Muslim woman was given a role, duties and rights 1400 years ago that most women did not enjoy in the West up until about 100 years ago like civil rights, human rights, social right, economic right, inheritance rights, rights of a wife etc etc.
Non-Muslims reading the site is no excuse to hide the truth from Quran and Sunnah and refrain from posting what goes against their belief system, values or that which does not suits them.
[Edited to remove potentially insulting comments. Brother - please note that while debate can be positive, the use of insults or personal attacks will not be tolerated.]
Assalaamualaikam
I think what Precious Star is pointing out is that the language you have used to describe such guidance could easily be misinterpreted.
To say "Islam forbids free movement" of females, could easily be read as a literal interpretation - that is, that women are not allowed to move freely - which could cause people to think that women are oppressed or considered second-class citizens; when in fact there are restrictions on the movements and interactions of both sexes, to help protect us all from haraam.
There are several views among scholars about the issue of travelling alone, especially as modes of transport available today mean a trip of several days could take a few hours, and modes of transport offer different amounts of privacy. So, we should not state one viewpoint is absolutely true based on our own interpretations and studies.
If scholars (who have spent many years learning their field of study) are debating an issue and have different opinions, it would be very arrogant of us to assume our own viewpoints are entirely correct, when we have much less experience and knowledge.
May Allah help us all develop our knowledge and understanding of Islam, and forgive us for transgressions we make in error as we learn.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Editor:Point taken, I was reacting to what she wrote without giving any proofs ' I had no idea I am to be imprisoned '( making conclusions)and stop writing false and incorrect statements', I am surprised why you did not find it insulting and a form of personal attack and this is not the first time she has done it.
Asalamalkum dear brothers and sisters,
I am convert and sometimes I feel I am so lucky that I was not a born muslim. When I was younger, my family supported me to study abroad as a young women as they thought it could open up and widen my views of life. I was never forced to get marry at young age. I was free to take part in any outdoor activities, swimming, hiking, running and traveling. I was encouraged to travel with my friends as long as I plan well ahead and had a detailed back up plan. I did so many things that might have considered as "NOT ALLOWED" list according to some muslim in this website. My family knew me well and trusted me that I was a mature female who could handle challenges and even danger. I traveled with a few female friends only. I remembered I bought once female and male friends to have dinner with my parents and they were completely happy about that. They trusted me that I would make wise decision. I told them every adventure and people I met and experienced and struggled. My parents are a devoted Christian and I was well educated religiously in young age. They taught us morals, tolerance, respect, and love. I do wonder if I was born in a muslim family, am I allow to do all this as a female? I still feel that all I did and my actions are helping me to search my journey, now my journey to Islam. Were I pleasing God or pleasing myself in all these actions? I think they are inseparable. Sometimes, even some sisters would suggest by pleasing Allah, we should stay home, we should not do this or that. I think, when we say "equal in front of Allah", it means female should be treated with respect and should be listened to too, right.
Religion is not a forced belief and one cannot applied coercion without considering all aspects.
Regarding to the reply of this post, I think Sister Saba gave an excellent advice already. One more thing I can see is your family is not only falling apart because of your sister, there is an unclear power in the structure. Your sister is overpower in the family. Your parents role is so unclear and weak. They need to step up and give firm advice to your sister, or they may need professional help to help your sister. Your parents have right to call police if they suspect that their daughter is having sex with a boy. She is still underage. Take care.
Sister K looks to me a dummy poster, because no one in the right mind converts to Islam and then, not just cherishes , but praises the independence and freedom they enjoyed in their previous faith as a female and calls themselves 'lucky', indirectly pulling down the practising women in Islam on an Islamic website.
And the poster lauds 'Sister Saba's comments...??? , I suspect someone is trying to prove a point, get even and justify their opinions(read the debate on this thread to know what I am referring to).
'Saba', any guesses who is this Sister K ? 🙂
Assalaamualaikam
I reverted to Islam and am an advocate of women's rights. The two things aren't incompatible. In fact, Islam established and protected women's rights centuries before some cultures even acknowledged that women weren't property (sadly, some cultures still seem to believe we are).
There are clearly aspects of the "freedom" encouraged by certain media and groups that are utterly inappropriate, but I would not consider these to be "freedom", rather they are exploitation - how can it liberate a woman to be expected to wear next to nothing and trade on her physical appearance and willingness to appear "sexy"? However, some other aspects of Western cultures can be considered more beneficial, such as the encouragement of education (all Muslims should be encouraged to seek knowledge) and the introduction of legislation prohibiting forced marriages, female genital mutilation, etc.
The only perfect way of life is Islam, and the cultures we live in are imperfect. But that does not mean there are not things in all our cultures which can be positive.
There is also a period of transition for many people who revert, in which we can still look back at the way our lives were and have fond memories of these times. This doesn't mean that we are not committed to our faith, just that as well as looking forward, we look back to put what is happening in our lives into context.
Please don't accuse people of making dummy accounts just to prove a point. Yes, there have been a few examples of such behaviour in the (not-too-distant, really) past, but these aren't encouraged and there are ways for the editing team to identify these accounts. Let's just treat people with the same acceptance and tolerance we would want for ourselves, and assume people are real until proven otherwise (well, as real as anyone is in cyberspace).
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Jazak Allah @ midnightmoon for the reply, Alhamdulillah, I am happy to know that you reverted to Islam. Most of the reverts have strong faith and are well informed and more knowledgeable about Islam than most born Muslims and it is true ,especially for those who were leading a religious life in their previous religion and came to Islam seeking the truth. There is a video of an Australian brother in Ytube who is a revert from Christianity and now works as the President of Islamic society in an University. He said his reversion to Islam was gradual, after he spend large chunks of time researching and studying Islam. After he reverted, he began doing dawah and his born -Muslims friends used to come to him seeking Islamic advice and fatwas, Marsha-Allah.
I am all for positive debates, few "Sisters" defending and supporting each others comments aggressively is fine until they start falsely judging the fellow commentators and indulge in personal attacks.But I found some of 'Sister K' comments out of the ordinary, sarcastic, offensive,insulting and somewhat mocking the lifestyle of practising women in Islam.
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She writes:
I am convert and sometimes I feel I am so lucky that I was not a born muslim. When I was younger, my family supported me to study abroad as a young women as they thought it could open up and widen my views of life. I was never forced to get marry at young age. I was free to take part in any outdoor activities, swimming, hiking, running and traveling. I was encouraged to travel with my friends as long as I plan well ahead and had a detailed back up plan. I did so many things that might have considered as "NOT ALLOWED" list according to some muslim in this website.
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When parents from conservative Muslim families don't allow their girls to participate in outdoor sports like swimming, hiking, running, etc, it only to protect them, most of these sports and activities involve unnecessary haram interaction and contacts with non-mahrams and there is hardly any segregation for females, which may lead to fitnah..Marrying off Muslim girls at a younger age (16-18 yrs) is a cultural thing, there are many benefits in it and medically it has been proven that bearing children at a later age for a woman is riskier both for hers and the babies life, because of the numerous pregnancy and age related complications
Muslim women are allowed to travel with mahrams , it is a myth and a misconception that they are forcefully confined to homes spread by anti-Islamic media.
Sister K has the same misconceptions like many non-Muslims do and I think she is not very well informed and I was expecting the very active born -Muslims "Sisters" who defend "Women's Rights" to guide her and counter her false observations that Muslim women are being oppressed, because I feel they are more articulate and better informed than me or others. But there were no replies and a defining silence instead, which made me believe that this is a dummy poster.
Muslim women's hijab and body covering has become a favourite tool of anti-Islamic media to spread hatred and lies and target the Muslim Ummah across the word.
This is a beautiful essay by a "Muslim Hijabi" women from my drafts.
I am a Muslim woman who, like millions of other Muslim women across the globe, chooses to wear the hijab. The hijab, is actually female empowerment. When I cover myself, I make it virtually impossible for people to judge me according to the way I look. I cannot be categorized because of my attractiveness or lack thereof. We are constantly sizing one another up on the basis of our clothing, jewellery, hair and makeup. What kind of depth can there be in a world like this? Yes, I have a body, a physical manifestation upon this Earth. Women are used in advertisements to sell everything from beer to cars!
The world in which we live, external appearances are so stressed that the value of the individual counts for almost nothing. It is a myth that women in today’s society are liberated! What kind of freedom can there be when a woman can not walk down the street without every aspect of her physical self being “checked out”? When I wear the hijab I feel safe from all of this. I can rest assured that no one is looking at me and making assumptions about my character from the length of my skirt. There is a barrier between me and those who would exploit me.
I am first and foremost a human being, equal to any man, and not vulnerable because of my sexuality. The beauty myth and female self-image is all over popular teenage magazines, you can instantly find out what kind of body image is “in” or “out.” and if you have the “wrong” body type, well, then, you’re just going to have to change it, aren’t you? After all, there is no way that you can be overweight and still be beautiful. Look at any advertisement. Is a woman being used to sell the product? How old is she? How attractive is she? What is she wearing? More often than not, that woman will be no older than her early 20s, taller, slimmer and more attractive than average, dressed in skimpy clothing. Why do we allow ourselves to be manipulated like this.
When people ask me if I feel oppressed, I can honestly say no. I made this decision out of my own free will. I like the fact that I am taking control of the way other people perceive me. I enjoy the fact that I don’t give anyone anything to look at and that I have released myself from the bondage of the swinging pendulum of the fashion industry and other institutions that exploit females.
My body is my own business. Nobody can tell me how I should look or whether or not I am beautiful. I know that there is more to me than that. I am also able to say “no” comfortably then people ask me if I feel as though my sexuality is being repressed. I have taken control of my sexuality. I am thankful I will never have to suffer the fate of trying to lose/gain weight or trying to find the exact lipstick shade that will go with my skin colour. I have my priorities and these are not among them. So next time you see me, don’t look at me sympathetically. I am not under duress or a male-worshipping female captive ! I’ve been liberated.
Brother J,
That's a nice piece. Thanks for sharing.
I think nobody commented back to sister K because I feel that she did not say anything islamically or morally wrong. Muslim women can engage in outdoor hobbies and sports, so long as it is withing islamic limits. In the west their are women only clubs. I go to women only aerobics, swimming etc. what's wrong with that. I want to keep fit and healthy too. It's not just exclusively for men and non muslims.
And she did say SOME muslims who maybe restrict their daughters from even having halal enjoyment. I can understand that as their are over strict muslim parents who do not let daughters even study or out of the house. And forced marriages are haram. So no women should get forced to get married which happens quite often. So I don't think she said anything wrong as she was talking about some minority I hope.
I have lived in the west my whole life. My parents are not so religous and have never told me to do this do that. I decided to wear hijab, I decided not to mix freely even though there is plenty of opportunity! I never ever felt the need to be skinny or look a certain way because if media or men. I didnt give a monkeys how I looked or what people thought of me. But ill tell you one thing i felt very conscious of how I looked when i got married to my very cultural husband from the east! Who called me far although I was skinny! He lived in a muslim country all his life and he makes his wife feel insecure about her looks. I felt I had look a certain way, dress a certain way, walk a certain way for him! I was so under pressure! I was depressed and scared all day that he might leave me if I didn't fit the bill. I've never felt so ugly in my life before marriage! I didn't even know how to do myself up because i never followed the west! My simplicity became my enemy.
It doesn't matter whether you live in the west or east men still have the same perception of beauty, skinny, fair, tall with a preety face whether its without hijab or beneath the hijab, women are still pressured to look a certain way. If they happen to be ugly they can forget about marriage altogether!
Re:It doesn't matter whether you live in the west or east men still have the same perception of beauty, skinny, fair, tall with a preety face whether its without hijab or beneath the hijab, women are still pressured to look a certain way. If they happen to be ugly they can forget about marriage altogether!
I agree MEN are same everywhere .They just want the same things .Islam just put control on desires and evil wishes .
But i don't feel any thing wrong if men looks for beautiful women for marriage .
Brother Cool,
There is nothing wrong in wanting a phisically beautiful women for marriage. I was just replying to brother J's comment about the west pressuring women to look a certain way, and that in the west women are judged on their beauty and not character and personality. Isn't this the same in the east? What's the difference. Men go and see a hijabi women for marriage. She has to lift her vail so he can take a good look to see if she is preety and fair. It's a no no, if she doesn't fit the specification of beauty. So again judged on outer appearances whether in hijab or out of hijab.
It's not the west who pressurise women to look good for men, its the men whether muslim or non muslim. Women get worried when they are looking for a spouce that they have to be skinny fair etc etc. so why blame everything on west. We are all responsible for our own sins. Parents need to bring children up with the right guidance and support no matter which country they live in! It's all to do with upbringing and the iman of the individual.
Be Careful of your accusations Brother J--Allah is All-Knowing.
I am not in a competition--but clearly it seems that you are.
You have no idea what my childhood was, where I was born or what religion I was born into--If I debate about something it is because of some deeply rooted reasons and I need not make "dummy" accounts to falsely compliment myself.
Think how you will feel when you find out one day that your accusation is false--reflect on that for a long long time.
Saba, let me clear the misunderstanding, I was not suspecting you . Your opinions and advice are very articulate and I am pretty sure you have many fans here who like reading your comments.
Some of Sister K comments were sarcastic and she was literally mocking the modest lifestyle of young practising Muslim girls and women with her comments.
Was surprised to see not a single comment from the very active "Women rights" defending "Sisters" to counter her false claims and observations, so it made me believe that the poster is not a genuine, may be one of your fan,I may be wrong "Allah knows best".
Brother, I read that Umar bin Khattab ran after a man who stole something from him and yelled "I have given it to you--say that you accept it" simply because he didn't want his brother in Islam to be punished.
From a sister to a brother--Please don't play these games. First you wrote this, but you meant this and all these things. I love our Ummah and for you to suggest that I have misled people on this site by making dummy accounts is inappropriate. Allah knows the truth, Sister K knows and I know. I have forgotten it all--but you as part of this Ummah, I don't want you to repeat this type of accusation again. And I will try my best to convey my messages clearly if there is an error. But try to understand, we are not enemies here, we are a part of ONE SINGLE UMMAH.
May Allah protect us from the tricks of shaitaan and may Allah destroy our egos that make us stray from the straight path, Ameen.
Brother J
I do not understand why you are so hateful and what make you think you are better than others? To boost how knowledgeable you are? To prove you are a "better" muslim? I am Sister K but not Saba. I am sorry that I got Sr Saba into "trouble". You do not have a good intention by advising people and one can feel the hateful in your heart. No matter what will you say, I hope you should ask yourself your intention of posting here. Regards
I'm not really sure how Sister K is "pulling down the practicing women of Islam".
Studying, hiking, travelling with other women, staying close to your parents, even swimming, are not activities that are contrary to the Islamic faith and way of life. These are all healthy activities that promote a sound body as well as mind.
I think you should stop with the name-calling and put-downs. Is that the only way you know how to challenge someone's point of view, by calling them "dummy" and saying that they are "not in their right mind"?
Brother J,
It looks like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Recently you posted as " eagle eyes" remember lol! In sisterZahriya's post! And now your accusing sister K's post of being fake!
I don't know why SOME brothers become are so opposed to the west and so opposed to women standing up for their islamic rights and not wanting to be doormats.
We are all brothers and sisters to one another, supporting each other. It's not a men vs women competition.
You should support your sisters in Islam and protect them against any oppression.
Sumaira
You have a good memory, put it to better use. I have already mentioned the reasons for using a different id on sister Zahriya's post.
Neither I have anything to hide nor I did it with malicious intent.
Brothers are not opposed to the west as a whole, but certainly the filth which is promoted by their media and some parts of population of the society. And they have also infiltrated other nations, even Muslim nations have not been spared..
If you have not, then please read brother abdula's comment, he is abandoning a western country for the same reasons.
I think there is a competition to attack and put down those commentators who do not share or agree with all the point of views or opinions of a group.
Sister K comes along posts a comment, says she is a convert, she is lucky she is " not" a born Muslim, because as a young girl she was allowed to study abroad ,do outdoor activities, swimming, hiking, running and traveling etc which according to her is liberating..
So , she is mocking the modest Islamic lifestyle of young Muslim girls and women and terming it indirectly as miserable
Lets suppose,if a "Brother" had posted such a sarcastic comment like Sister K did which was making fun of Muslim girls and women's Islamic lifestyle, there would have been a dozen replies from "Sister" to him defending the Muslimahs and their lifestyle, but no one bothers to reply to Sister K except Sister 'midnightmoon' after I questioned Sister K's credentials..
.
The major religions of the world like Christianity and Judaism have got corrupted because their ancestors took from their religion what suited them and ignored the rest.
eg Eating pork and drinking alcohol is forbidden in the Bible, the Bible tells men to grow beards but ask any Christian they'll say " No ,No this is part of old testament and we follow the new testament Bible" but according to the old testament homosexuality is forbidden and Christians agree, and follow it, ask them why, they have no answers. But they also eat pork and drink alcohol and even their Pope does not grow a beard.
How is it that they reject part of what God says and only accept some, they are only taking what is easy for them and rejecting the rest, this is nothing but A grade hypocrisy and some of our Muslim Ummah are also falling in this fitnah.
Brother J, I must applaud you for standing against these muslim feminists. Most of them are from the west anyway and no offence to the converts but they also bring their own feminist characteristics and then mix it up with Islam.
Congratulations Brother J,
Now you have your own fan club!
AaA,
Perhaps you can enlighten us on what part is not Islamic? Obviously you are against Muslims females in the West--I am not sure what you expect to happen.
Some of the comments suggest that feminism or women's rights have been such an issue in the history of time as if women have dominated society. Some of the comments also suggest that Islam is practiced to its perfection in some parts of the world--with no culture and male-dominating societies--and if that is the case, then all this rebuke should have a stamp of approval and we should just continue to support the "imaginary" Utopian Islamic societies without thought of improvement since they are so perfect.
Brother J (and AaA):
I think you are failing to distinguish between "attacking the views/comments" vs. "attacking the person who makes them".
Many people on this forum have challenged the views posted here -- including your's. But we don't try to attack the person behind the views. I would strongly recommend that you review your own comments and see which category you fall into.
Certainly, saying things like "you have a good memory, put it to better use" is a statement that borders on the personal.
So happy to have you join the Muslim Ummah 🙂
Wa Alaikum Salaam Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatuh Sister K,
Congratulation for embracing Islam, mashaAllah. May Allah continue to bless you and make you remain steadfast in Islam. Ameen!
Brother J,
I am not a feminist an I am not mocking anyone, I love my sisterhood in the muslim community but we have enough of pressure from "brother" like you. I feel "lucky" because of "not born" in a so called "muslim background", here I want to interpret more as I am by no means "MOCKING" other sisters. Brother J, you put your judgmental thought in my writing which is TOTALLY INCORRECT.
I have witnessed in my eyes that how muslim families put down their daughters by restricting them not doing some normal halah activities. We have to admit that there are some and quite a number of muslim families that using the name of "Islam" to refuse their daughters to have full participation in their daily life. I feel so unfair and unjust for my sisters. I am glad that I did not see this aspect of "Islam" before I converted. I am glad that my family allows me to explore my life with their help and support. Christian also has strong morals and not everyone bent their principles to please the world. How much do know about it? Maybe not all, but for some branches of Christianity, they also don't allow alcohol, no mixing, dress modestly, and no sex. This was how I was raised. Some even reject to eat pork if you care. I am glad I see Islam is a beautiful religion that respect men and women equally in front of Allah. Women have their right to vote, right to participate in the society, right to education, and right to marry but not forced marry. What I saw in my muslim community and also some articles in this websites also show part of the muslim life around different part of the world that how women are forced to marry their cousins back home, how they were abused by their husbands, and how most unfortunate events happened because of "ignorance" and "blindly submissive" to their "so called "muslim husband" .
Brother J, I live in the West and I am sick of hearing those muslim only complaint about how corrupt the country are. The west in not perfect and neither is the EAST (?) ( What is the east for your interpretation by the way.) I see lots of corruption in Arab countries as I travelled a lot. At least, in the west, there is a channel for the abused one to come forward, to report to their abuse, to get help, and to get a new life. I see tragedy happened because of these "male- dominated-I-am-the-truth" attitude around, the same attitude that you hold. In this era, we need dialogue, we need education and we need respect. Stop whining about how corrupt the West are, you may choose to leave and live in your Utopia world Or stay to help your sisters with compassion.
@AaA Jazak -Allah brother for your kind words of encouragement
Islamic Feminism is being propagated in the Muslim world by a certain lobby in the west and these are the same people who used to say muslims are ‘fundamentalist’ in nineties and then ‘extremist’ in 2000s and then when they saw that Islam still growing at its fastest pace they derived a new word for muslims i.e ‘terrorist’. There is no better word for muslim women than ‘modesty’ and that what reflects in all her day to day dealing whether she is mother, sister, daughter or wife.
Our enemies understand that by controlling the hand that rocks the cradle, they may be able to fulfill their treacherous schemes.
The below is a link for an article which blows the lid off the Feminist movement.
http://www.totalfascism.com/feminism-a-jewish-war-on-femininity/
@ Saba, Thanks, not an attention seeker, but I don't mind it !
You are indirectly accusing the sisters on this forum as supporters of immodesty.
And now you are educating us about Feminism. Nice.
I suppose all us "feminists" should put away our books and running shoes and run, rather walk, since running is off the list, to the kitchen to learn how to cook more meals.
Brother J's response and the article that he attaches in it, is disturbing. Moreover, it has no relationship whatsoever to the nature of the discussion on this forum. You may notice that neither Brother J nor AaA have provided the definition of "feminism" that they are so attached to.
Food for thought.
You are indirectly accusing the sisters on this forum as supporters of immodesty.
Be Careful with your wild accusations Saba--Allah is All-Knowing.
And now you are educating us about Feminism. Nice.
The article is educating us about the "Farce of Feminism".
I suppose all us "feminists" should put away our books and running shoes and run, rather walk, since running is off the list, to the kitchen to learn how to cook more meals.
Learning to cook more variety of meals will surely be far more useful for all "feminist", as " The way to a man's heart is through his stomach."
RE : I suppose all us "feminists" should put away our books and running shoes and run, rather walk, since running is off the list, to the kitchen to learn how to cook more meals.
This is very bad comment and sounds like you are degrading women who cooks food daily in their life .
Cooking is an art and not very one can cook well .
You look ARROGANT here to make such a statement .
I couldn't agree with you more brother cool
Sister "Samina" agrees with Brother Cool, who called Saba's comment bad(I suppose all us "feminists" should put away our books and running shoes and run, rather walk, since running is off the list, to the kitchen to learn how to cook more meals.) and degrading to women who cooks food daily in their life and he wrote she appears 'ARROGANT' for making such statement.
For a change,nice to see gender neutral supporting comment from sister "Samina ' on this thread!
Salam,
Seriously I find it really funny that brother Aaah and J hate the west so much. ( I agree there are a lot of unislamic things happening i.e alcohol, pork, women dressing in appropriately etc etc) but of course they are non muslim so yes they would not follow what we believe in so it makes sense!. But still they have bent over backwards to accommodate every faith and ethnic minority. But I can't understand why some muslim countries would do unislamic things in secret when they should know better being a muslim state.
But it's ironic if you hate something why are you benefitting from it? Your talking their language (English) why don't you talk Arabic? Why did you not refuse to learn English? Your using the Internet, which was all created by the west. The non muslims in the west would be laughing at us saying "muslims hate us, yet they choose to live in our country and build mosques and madrasahs and are dying to come here for livelihood and benefits"! Yet they still hate us. I can't complain here, I am able to pray where I work very comftrobably, I am able to choose what I want to do and what I don't. Allah gave me a brain to select halal from haram. I use it simple. It doesn't matter where you live there is always opportunity to sin. It's up to you to make the right choice.
The Op has clearly chosen the haram path for her. It is not about living in the west. If that was the case then there would be no muslimas in the west! All of them would have turned to sin. It is also down to good parenting and having a good loving islamic environment at home.
There is no feminism in Islam as men and women are equal. So feminism should not even be a subject! But it looks like you do not view women in equal light as you keep bringing up feminism whenever a sister comments and cant accept the fact that women have the same rights to live a fullfilling life within islamic limits and not just be housebound servants for men.
Salam,
We are in a the PHASE where WEST has done well in science ,.technology and other fields. . These Phases keep changing( if you read and analyse the HISTORY) and never know who will be dominating these areas say after 500-1000 Years .Take CHINA example .CHINA might give become SUPER POWER one day .
Muslims needs to acquire good stuff from West like Technology ,medical knowledge etc etc and need to try to improve their respective less developed countries .
People who talk BIG about WEST here in this forum
I have ONE question for you ?
You left your mother land and now are settled in some good /developed countries but what you have GIVEN back to you
HOME country ? ONLY CRITICIZING them ? TRYING to prove they are as SINFULL as in the WEST ..And SO and SO .
Only prayers ,commenting in forum ,trying to prove Muslims countries are as bad as non muslims(Hidden SINS) ...It seems they feel good when they find people doing the same SINS in muslim countries as they DO in west .
GIVE back to Society from where you started your life .Talking is EASY ,Criticizing your HOME COUNTRY is EASY ..Try to put your EFFORT improvised their situation ..
"You left your mother land"
What????
Who left their motherland? I certainly did not, nor did 99% of my muslim friends and relatives. By Allah's will we were all born in the West.
Asak Precious Star,
The above comments were for the people who have migrated from other less developed countries .As most of comments above seems to be from people who have migrated ...
Allah hafiz
@ Sumaira .
Your whole argument is redundant and irrelevant. We don't hate the west. When did we say that ? We don't like feminism .
Disliking feminism does not equal hating west.
@ precious star.
I am sure your father or grandfather immigrated to west. You all ( majority ) of the Muslims are either immigrants or sons/ daughters of immigrants. Your parents came here for greener pastures.
If you are speaking about North America, then only the native Americans would be rightly called the original Americans.
Alright everyone, that's enough. This discussion has gone far afield, into issues that have little to do with the original post. Let's move on, Insha'Allah.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
And it is very amusing to see that if you challenge or don't go along with political correctness( in this case feminism) , then it automatically means you hate the west and females.
Haha. Females have developed a standard response to anyone who disagrees with them . The response is usually along such lines , " you must hate females" , " you hate west " , " you hate strong independent females " " you are a chauvinist " and etc . You get the idea .
This nothing but ad hominem attacks.
Assalaamualaikam
Please read brother Wael's post above. While some discussion of relevant points is welcome, this isn't the place for a lengthy argument about men/women, East/West, feminism/chauvinism, etc.
If you wish to ask a question about these issues, you are welcome to submit your own question for publication.
If this argument continues, the post may need to be closed.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Brother AaA, you have hit the nail on the head!
It is not just ad hominem(You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.) being used but also strawman (You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.) 🙂
AaA and BrotherJ, I asked politely that everyone leave this unproductive discussion and move on. Apparently my polite request meant nothing to you. Therefore I have banned you both from this website, and I am closing this post.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
You people should be ashamed of yourself for continuing the debate lets all focus on the original poster who posted this reply CALM DOWN EVERYONE.
Right .Lets stop it here and move ON .