Islamic marriage advice and family advice

Concerns About Healthcare Fields for Muslim Women

Hijab lady

Assalaamu Alaikum my dear brothers and sisters!

You have all been very helpful in helping me to deal with my marital issues and problems and now I am trying to find out fields that are appropriate for me so that I can become more independent financially. As you know, I don't handle stress well, but I have always wanted to work in healthcare because I feel I am a compassionate and caring sister. However, I have concerns about certain fields and would like to know if there are any muslim sisters who have dealt with those issues and how they have got around it.

I know, first of all, that I would like to either go into speech therapy or social work one day. I do have concerns in social work about dealing with non-Muslim concerns like homosexuality and basically any LGBT issues since these seem to be very prevalent in the West. I wonder how do Muslim social workers deal with non-Muslim issues since as a social worker you would be dealing with both muslims and mainly non-muslims? How do you keep yourself from having an Islamic perspective since non-Muslims wouldn't want you to have that type of perspective especially concerning LGBT issues? I feel very scared to deal with this because there aren't many muslims in my area and I know I would mainly be dealing with non-muslims as a social worker. I also worry about taking children away from their homes if they are being abused, because certain cultures believe in hitting children to discipline them and I think the West takes it too far with their definitions of child abuse. I also don't want to go to people's homes for safety issues. I think I would like to be a school Social worker, but those positions seem very few. What else can I do within social work that would be halal?

Next, I know there are sisters who have advised me to not worry about nursing or occupational therapy, since it would be too stressful for me, but I do have questions about those fields and would like to know how Muslim women who are in those fields deal with certain issues. I know there are sisters who are working in nursing and occupational therapy, but whenever I try to reach out to them to answer my questions, they never answer me or don't get back to me. I find this very frustrating. So, I am turning to my sisters of Islam on this zawaj.com forum who are in those fields.

My first concern with both occupational therapy and nursing are cleaning of patients and toileting. Non-muslims have very different hygiene practices in the bathroom compared to muslims (for example, muslims use water after defecating and urinating to clean themselves whereas non-Muslims only use toilet paper and no water), so how do muslim women who are in occupational therapy and nursing deal with that main difference? I find it so difficult to deal with it and don't know how other muslim women get around it. Then, there is the issues of cleaning and touching male patients and dealing with sexual harrassment from them and I know it happens especially in nursing and occupational therapy since you are getting very physically close to male patients. How do muslim women deal with this? I know there are muslim women who may go into women's health as a nurse or work only with children as an occupational therapist, but in the training and the first few years, you may have to work with males and deal with sexual harrassment from them. Also, I am not very physically strong so I wonder in both nursing and OT, how do muslim women lift patients, especially male patients, without it breaking their backs and being a physical strain on them as well as dealing with men that might grab them sexually when they are lifting them? I also worry about working night shifts as a nurse since I don't do well working at nights and need 8 hours of sleep. No matter how many hours I sleep during the day, I would still feel tired at night and would probably fall asleep by 2 am. I also can't stand on my feet for long periods of time, and I think nurses have to stand for the whole 12-hour shift. I keep hearing from people that nursing has so many options, but I think as a new nurse you would have to pay your dues and work in bedside nursing taking night shift. If I can't handle this stress, should I stay far from nursing? I need to hear from sisters who are in the nursing field.

I know sister Saba told me to not stress about nursing and OT and concentrate on less stressful fields like court reporter or being a secretary. However, I want to know from other sisters about my concerns with nursing, social work, and occupational therapy in case I consider these fields in the future. Hope to hear from sisters who are in these fields since I need to know how they handle the problems they may face.

islamicgirl28


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37 Responses »

  1. OP: Then, there is the issues of cleaning and touching male patients and dealing with sexual harassment from them and I know it happens especially in nursing and occupational therapy since you are getting very physically close to male patients

    Patients who NEED help with cleaning are in bad shape and want to get well. I don't think they are looking to harass nurses who clean them. If you are uncomfortable with looking at naked women and men, you should not work as a hospital nurse or work in nursing home.

    If you are uncomfortable helping homosexuals, you should not be going into mental health.

    If you want to work in health related field and not deal with men and lesbians better find a job in an Islamic country that way you be safe

  2. Salam dear sister,

    I read through your post and I can relate. Before I got myself working, I had so many concerns that seemed crucially important. But as soon as I was in the workplace I realized that all my bosses, most of my coworkers, and the company policies had built in limits that could not be crossed without my permission. Dont worry so much that you will be taken off guard and harassed by patients and forced to bathe naked men. If you are living in a western country, you have rights, and I suggest asking about your rights before you take any position in any field.

    Regarding your concerns with mental health/ social work patients and LGBT: if you do happen to work with them, just remember that you are there to help. If they believe in something strange, you do not have to agree with them but you can just keep your thoughts in your head and pray for them to change. You can show support for those things that get them out of bad situations, but just try to ignore their LGBT side. That's all you can do, besides be kind to them and do your job.

    In healthcare, you have many different options. It sounds like you would be more suited for being an administrative assistant. This would pull you away from potentially uncomfortable situations and still let you have a part in the sawab of helping others. As a bonus, many colleges have administrative assistance degrees and certificates that only take 2-3 years to achieve, while you would still get paid the same as a nurse, with daytime hours. If you still have your heart set on becoming an OT or nurse, then listen up. Its hard work, and if you want to clean someone with water instead of tissue, then more power to you! Most patients who need you to bathe them cannot do much harassment past a few obnoxious whistles or impolite words. Also, if a patient is too heavy to lift, you can and are recommended to ask for help so that you do not hurt yourself on the job. As I said before, study up on your rights; most work places will try to respect your religion if you tell them you want to work with only women patients. If not, there are places like OBGYN practices and womens clinics that need nurses too. Always ask questions like you are doing, that's what, InshAllah, will get you places that you want to be.

    Salams,
    Shereen

  3. Assalaamualaikam

    Healthcare can be a really rewarding field to work in, and there are actually quite a few ways you can negotiate your work plan so that you can maintain your values. It's important to be aware that the training and early years will involve a mixture of work, as it's important for all practitioners to have a solid foundation in all basic aspects of the job. But as well as the challenges, this means you can experience a range of settings and inshaAllah find one which you love.

    It's true that nursing, occupational therapy and related careers require you to help people with personal care. But these people aren't well, and the vast majority of them will be very grateful for your help, rather than wanting to grab or harass you. Some people may be confused or distressed, and behave inappropriately because of that, but you wouldn't be left to deal with that situation yourself - if a patient is known to act in that way, they should either be nursed by people of the same gender, or have a care plan in place that involves several members of staff working together.

    The physical handling part of the job isn't as bad as you might fear. There are training courses, and special equipment (hoists, transfer boards, sliding sheets, etc) which mean that your actual physical strength isn't a big factor. You won't be expected to transfer people yourself, either - patients have their care needs assessed and an appropriate management plan put in place.

    You don't need to stand for 12 hours - you may find that you're busy, but no-one would expect you to stand rather than sit if you aren't doing something that requires you to stand. Depending on where you work, a lot of countries have protected breaks for healthcare staff, so that if you were working a 12 hour shift, you'd have a guaranteed break.

    If shift working is a concern, then nursing itself might not be a good fit for you, as almost all training programmes and a lot of jobs require a degree of shift working. Shift working can also have an impact on people's mental health, so if that's been a concern for you, you may wish to look for a job that's going to be more of a positive impact on your mental health. Something like occupational therapy, healthcare administration or social work might mean you don't have shift work - maybe think about those?

    In all healthcare fields, and in all walks of life really, we'll come into contact with people whose values or beliefs don't match with our own. We need to find a way to work with them though, without allowing our differences to result in conflict. When I'm working with someone who believes something I don't or has values which don't match with mine, I try to remember how The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) emphasised tolerance, and remind myself of Surah Al-Kafiroon - especially the 6th ayah: To you be your way, and to me mine (translation by Yusuf Ali). They can have their own beliefs and values, I have mine, and that's ok, so long as everyone respects each other's rights and the requirements of the law.

    Midnightmoon
    IslamicAnswers.com editor

    • Thank you all for your responses! They are very helpful. My main issue with occupational therapy is having to do presentations during the master's program and I am terrified of public speaking. Also, I have shadowed for occupational therapy and have witnessed inappropriate behavior from men towards the female occupational therapist. These concerns have prevented me from applying to a masters program. I feel very stuck and don't know what to do. I completed my bachelor's in 2006 but fear has stopped me from pursuing occupational therapy. I pray to Allah to help me overcome my fears, but I am still stuck with extreme anxiety. Don't know what to do.

      • OP: My main issue with occupational therapy is having to do presentations during the master's program and I am terrified of public speaking. Also, I have shadowed for occupational therapy and have witnessed inappropriate behavior from men towards the female occupational therapist

        You should try Toastmasters in area to see if you can practice your public speaking skills in Toastmasters club. The only way you can get rid of your fear of public speaking is by doing it.

        If you have witnessed inappropriate behavior in occupational therapy, you should not go for it. If men and women meet at work or any other place there are chances of flirtations, affairs, harassment. Why do you think Islam prohibits contact with na-mahrams?

        • Assalaamualaikam

          Toastmasters tends to host mixed male and female meetings, though, so that in itself would be contact with non mahram men.

          Sister, I'd recommend that if you want to boost your public speaking skills, you make contact with sisters at your mosque or community centre, as there may well be opportunities for you to get involved in giving and arranging Islamic talks. Also, remember that everyone is going to be in the same situation - most people will also be scared of public speaking, and the course organisers will probably have some sort of training about it to help people develop skills.

          Midnightmoon
          IslamicAnswers.com editor

          • I think Toastmasters is a great idea. I did that when I was a young woman and it helped me a lot. The meetings are mixed but I'm assuming you wear hijab? If so, attending the meetings should not be a problem for you. I strongly encourage you to find a chapter in your geographical area.

            That being said, my advice, from someone who used to dread public speaking, is to remember that if you have confidence and conviction in the subject matter of your presentation, you will do ok. Also, shy people like us must over-prepare. That means rehearsing, taping yourself to hear what you sound like, and doing dry-runs in front of friends and colleagues.

            Insha'Allah, over time, you will be fine.

            However, if you are looking for something that is separated along gender lines, then you are unlikely to find that in North America. You can try doing an online degree that will allow you to restrict your contact with men, but when you get out into the workplace you are not going to find a female-only environment. If that is why you want, have you considered moving to a Muslim country?

          • I don't have any issues working in mixed environments. I wear hijab and none of the men at my teacher's assistant job bother me. What I feel bad about occupational therapy is that you have to touch male patients, and from what I witnessed shadowing, a lot of them are very inappropriate with the female occupational therapist. I have been terrified of public speaking all my life and no matter how much I pray, the fear never goes away. I would rather do speech therapy online or maybe social work master's program where there is no public speaking. I cannot handle the stress of public speaking and the phobia I have for it is too great. I also have extreme anxiety with highway driving and have never overcome the fear since getting my driver's license in high school. I pray to Allah to help me overcome these fears, but nothing changes. I think I'm just better off doing a master's online or a program with no public speaking. Speech therapy, healthcare information management (medical records), administrative assistant, and social work look like good options for me with no physical touching of men and no public speaking.

  4. Waiting for someone to respond....

    • Salaams Sister. You have received some good replies! And from your last response, above, from August 30, it sounds like you have come up with some good options for yourself. The next step is for you to put your plan into action. The only person who can do that is you!

    • OP: I don't have any issues working in mixed environments. I wear hijab and none of the men at my teacher's assistant job bother me.............. I pray to Allah to help me overcome these fears, but nothing changes........ I think I'm just better off doing a master's online or a program with no public speaking. Speech therapy, healthcare information management (medical records), administrative assistant, and social work look like good options for me with no physical touching of men and no public speaking.

      You can only get rid of fears by doing things you fear. It can be very difficult to do things you fear when your mind in a constant state of fear.

      Did you fear driving before you started driving? Do you feel more confident about driving now?

      Same thing is with public speaking or highway driving. Highway driving is safer than city streets driving for many people.

      Don't do any job that involves physical touching a man or woman. Most men will not bother a woman who does not show interest in them when they try to initiate a connection.

  5. I have tried to overcome highway driving and public speaking since 2006, but have never been able to. I think I'm a very intelligent person, but these fears are stopping me from recognizing my full potential. I am very articulate talking one-to-one or in small groups with people, but when I have to stand up and make a presentation in front of 30+ people, I go completely blank. I feel like I will never overcome these fears and I find myself seeking ways to pursue opportunities where I don't have to deal with these fears. I pray to Allah all the time, but nothing changes. I am just a very shy person when it comes to public speaking and I have major anxiety when it comes to highway driving.

    I don't know what to do about this because nothing seems to change. I think I better just give up and pursue something else where I don't have to deal with these issues. If I didn't have mental illness, I could have been a doctor or something prestigious, but unfortunately, I am dealing with mental health issues and have no choice but to choose something I can handle that doesn't involve public speaking or highway driving.

    I see so many Pakistani and Indian females who are in prestigious careers like doctor or some other kind of healthcare field, and I wish I could be like them. Not only are they intelligent at school, but they can stand up and give presentations with no problem. They don't have these fears that I have. I wish I was like them, but unfortunately, Allah has made me inferior. I hate these challenges I have and fear I will never get out of them.

  6. Waiting again for a response...

  7. Sister ,

    Regarding divorce the call should be from your side and it should not motivated by comments on this forum .

    Sister , you need to take help with your parents ,who if they are unable to reach your in laws should reach some one near to them and ask the reason behind this non sense . If they dont reposnd then there is no point in life tolerating silence from your husband .

    Just send a mail and ask what he want as silence is not going to solve any issue .Send SMS ,whatsapp messages and mails ..

  8. islamicgirl28: I am very articulate talking one-to-one or in small groups with people, but when I have to stand up and make a presentation in front of 30+ people

    If you can do it before small groups that is a big thing, many people just won't be able do that.

    It is your imagination creating a big fear in your mind about public speaking and highway driving.

    I wonder if you will be still scared if you imagine your audience sitting on toilets when you do your public speaking. Just imagine now, are you still scared.

    I am sure your mental illness is playing a role in your state of mind. Do you know even some people with Schizophrenia have achieved a lot. One guy name John Nash was a good mathematician and also a Nobel price winner. Another Schizophrenia became US senator.

    How kids are treated during childhood and make them suffer from anxiety, depression problem.

    You need love and support and a change of your believes to calm down and pursue your goals

  9. I don't have schizophrenia. I just saw the shaytan during prayer and haven't seen him anymore since I stopped praying. Basically, I am diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I'm so annoyed with the Muslim community automatically trying to put you down when you tell them you've seen the shaytan, and then constantly labeling you as schizophrenic to put you down. It's damn annoying and really needs to stop. A lot of people would say that the Prophet was schizophrenic seeing the Angel Jibreel yet Muslims would never dare say that. Don't understand when an ordinary person says that they saw the Shaytan, automatically you are labelled as schizophrenic. It's disgusting how the Muslim community puts down people like this. That's probably why there are so many people who leave Islam because of this type of behavior. It's pathetic and needs to stop, seriously.

    Anyway, I have had fears of public speaking since I was in kindergarten and had to do show and tell. I've got away with it by reading off of notecards verbatim. However, in master's program I doubt they will let you read off notecards, hence the fear I have. I don't think I'm blowing it out of my mind and making it more difficult than it really is because I know how I perform when I go up there and present and I always end up reading off of my notecards word for word because my mind goes blank. Same with highway driving. I have actually driven on the highway and feel my anxiety levels increase. I always need my husband in the car with me because I can't drive on the highway alone.

    These problems I have dealt with all my life and never seem to go away. I try to face them, but I end up getting so stressed out and then walk away from it because the stress is too much. I have prayed to Allah, but nothing changes. Don't know what to do.

  10. Islamicgirl28: I am sorry, I just gave you an example that even people with much worse mental illnesses have succeeded in life. I never meant you are schizophrenic. Keep trying and you can achieve your goals.

  11. That's okay. Sorry I lashed out like that. I get annoyed when people automatically label me with schizophrenia when I open up that I saw the Shaytan.

    I will keep trying to overcome these fears. If they never get better after much effort and the stress only gets worse, I will have to think about pursuing something else that doesn't require these fears. I really feel I am not up for full-time work right now. I am dealing with hormonal imbalance (thinning hair, weight issues, fatigue, low energy, low stress tolerance), in addition to depression and anxiety which I am unsure is related to my physical condition. Working part-time as a teacher's assistant is very low stress and gets me out of the house three times a week. I don't know if it's a good idea to be so ambitious right now, but my husband is very difficult to deal with. I feel like I'm stuck and will have to just take it slow and easy and try to keep praying that my husband changes and will be more financially responsible. I just don't know if I can handle the stress of working full-time and being financially independent. Don't know what to do....

  12. Waiting for a reply....

  13. islamicgirl28: I am dealing with hormonal imbalance (thinning hair, weight issues, fatigue, low energy, low stress tolerance), in addition to depression and anxiety which I am unsure is related to my physical condition.

    SVS: Depression and anxiety can cause lot of problems also. ........in some women, stress may play a role in causing irregular or missed periods. Thinning hair, weight issues, fatigue, low energy, low stress tolerance all can be related to stress caused by anxiety and depression. Most of these symptoms can be caused by many different other problems too.

    Hypothyroid can cause weight gain, hyperthyroid can make you loose weight. An endocrinologist can help you with your hormonal problems.

    islamicgirl28: but my husband is very difficult to deal with. I feel like I'm stuck and will have to just take it slow and easy and try to keep praying that my husband changes and will be more financially responsible

    SVS: What do you think your husband can do to improve his financial situation? Both of you need to support each other and help each other overcome problems. Arguing is not going to help.

    Do you feel better the 3 days you go to work?

    • Yes, I do feel good because it is a low stress job and I get to work with kids which I love.

      • Why not consider being a teacher of small kids or a child psychologist? Do you observe differences in kids, some may be shy, some learn to attract attention by smiling, some may be naughty. How would you help a shy kid or a kid who is fearful?

  14. I guess I would take them out of the regular classroom and have a child psychologist address their issues to help them overcome their phobia. I don't see any other way to get around it. Unfortunately, no one did that for me growing up.

  15. Waiting for an answer.....

    • Sister, please please forgive me if i annoy you, but have you ever thought that you might be suffering from Jinn possession?
      it would make sense in regards to the symptoms you describe and the fact you have said you saw the shaytaan during the prayer, we cannot see the ghaib (the unseen) but they can play tricks on us to make it appear as such,
      sister i don't know how else to suggest this to you, so please don't be upset, i don't want to put any more on your plate, its just i have spent most of my life possessed and i wouldn't wish this on anyone, sister there are lots of audios on youtube and websites that can assist you in finding out, if it is negative at least this can be ruled out, and you can focus on treating your issues using alternative methods.

      I work in similar field to those your interested in , i think the field is very challenging and takes up all your time, i'd be afraid to think of any Muslim doing a social worker role, its so easy to get in trouble including all the other issues you brought up. I found work in a womens only refuge, have you ever thought about that?, you can do part, nights etc, no men except builders etc 😉 i got to pray when i wanted, give dawah on the sly mind you hehehehehe wear whatever i wanted, i think its a good job for muslim women, yes i did have to work with gays etc BUT my job wasn' t to give life advice so i just let them be, i worked with the women in education, rehousing, life skills etc
      Let me know what you think sis xx

      • I doubt very much that you are possessed by a jinn, or that you spent most of your life possessed. In fact, I have seen no evidence that such a thing is even possible. Ancient peoples did not understand mental illness, so they ascribed it to possession. Nowadays we know better (or we should).

        Wael
        IslamicAnswers.com Editor

        • Salam brother,

          with respect.,

          I'm unsure of what mental illness would cause me to speak a language i do not know in a males voice, all the while i am aware that i am not saying the words, my mouth is uttering, if you were to witness this and the movement under my skin, my seizures and screams during the recitation of the Quran etc, i am sure you would not continue to doubt what i say,

          I was a person that never gave the Jinn a second thought or even knew of the possibility of Jinn possession.
          before i had been diagnosed by a Raqi i spent years suffering with ailments of which doctors could find no diagnosis.

          I do think many people are quick to diagnose themselves with foul play from the Jinn or Sihr etc, but at the same time there are people tested by Allah with possession,

          http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=81

          I not a liar nor do i have a mental health problem,
          I am grateful to Allah that since i have been having treatment in the form of Ruqyah, my condition has improved greatly, and my symptoms have subsided,

          • Muslimah: I'm unsure of what mental illness would cause me to speak a language i do not know in a males voice, all the while i am aware that i am not saying the words, my mouth is uttering, if you were to witness this and the movement under my skin, my seizures and screams during the recitation of the Quran etc, i am sure you would not continue to doubt what i say,

            What language did you speak in a male? What is your mother tongue?
            Some one should make a video of you when you are going thru this?

            A person could be hearing voices that no one else can hear, or seeing things that are not really there. A person may have delusions. Delusions are ideas that a person believes are true despite the fact that they may be unlikely or odd. For example, people with delusions may believe that the FBI is spying on them, or that aliens are controlling their behaviors or thoughts.

            Some people may think the above symptoms are caused by a Jinn, but a psychiatrist may have a mental health problem diagnosis

          • As-salamu Alaykum,
            Sister Muslimah, since you mentioned seizures, it is possible that you have a form of epilepsy. People with epilepsy can experience many odd sensations, hallucinate, and behave "strangely" during an episode. It is also not uncommon to scream, make throaty noises, speak in gibberish, laugh, sing, etc. Epilepsy is a neurological condition (not a mental illness), but there are other neurological issues that can also cause hallucinations and odd behaviors. A book I enjoyed was "Hallucinations," by Oliver Sacks. Dr. Sacks also wrote many other fascinating books about the human brain (he was a neurologist). People with epilepsy and other neurological conditions are often stigmatized as being either insane or possessed by the devil (or a jinn), and some Islamic websites propagate that idea (which I reject). I do, however, believe in the healing power of the Qur'an and would not want to minimize that. They have found that people with epilepsy who listen to Classical music often have fewer seizures, so I imagine that the calming/healing effect of the Qur'an is even much greater than that.

  16. Wael, please do not answer. When you answer, I can't stand it. Just please don't say a word.

  17. You are always diminishing me and condescending. If you just didn't respond, that would be the best. I hate when you respond and I think you intentionally try to diminish what I say. I know I don't have a mental illness and that what I saw was really the Shaytan and you are always trying to put me down and say I'm mentally ill. If that is true, then the prophet muhammad would also be classified as mentally ill since the things he saw ordinary people couldn't see. So just shut the hell up and never respond to any of my posts because you always try to make me feel worse. I don't like you and don't want you to ever respond to anything I post.

    • First, there is a difference between seeing a jinn - which certainly do exist - and believing in jinn possession. I am not saying I do not believe in jinn possession, but I'm skeptical. I think it's much more likely that what uneducated people see as jinn possession is really mental illness.

      Second, your language is unacceptable. I don't mind you disliking me - it's not required to like me - but to say "shut the hell up" is abusive. I don't allow anyone to talk to anyone else that way on this website. I'm giving you some leeway because I know you are troubled; but if this type of language continues, I will have to ban you.

      Wael
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  18. Wael is a fake muslim if he doesn't believe in jinn possession.

    • Sister islamicgirl28

      You need to mind your language .Some of your words are unacceptable .

      I suggest you to visit some counselors to sort your issues .You seeing Devil and all seems to be because of your own imagination . Please visit some doctor who can help you to come out of this problems .

  19. Jinn possession is a real phenomenon. Muslims on here dismissing it as mental illness are brainwashed by western psychiatry which is total bs.

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