Islamic pre-nup agreement
I know that Islam gives all the rights to a woman as regards marriage and divorce in Surah Al Nisa and other surahs. However, living in the US, I have heard many muslim scholars and jurists (one muslim female attorney at ISNA a few years ago spoke about it as well and encouraged muslim women to have it) that women should have a legal pre-nup signed i case the marriage did not work out well. This is specially to preserve the women's rights. I have had many women friends who have had to give up their earnings and savings because they were married but had no pre-nup agreement to protect them from US divorce laws. Given the state of the economy, I too get men interested in talking with me who see me as a co-provider for them - Islam wants me to provide as a wife IF I want to (If I love my husband why would I not provide) but these men come with the clear expectation that I SHOULD be a provider.
My own sister is going through a divorce (she did not get a pre-nup despite everyone telling her to) and her soon to be ex husband decided to stay home and sell off everything he had and send the money back home and declare that he was poor and she has been paying him alimony for the past 2 years as the lawyers are dragging their feet (they were married less than 2 years and have no children). So how and what should be the approach to this issue?
-serendipity
11 Responses »
Leave a Response
Entries(RSS)
Serendipity,
this is a very complicated question. You really need a lawyer to help you understand the ramifications of upholding in a US court a pre-nuptual agreement that is based on Islamic law. My understanding is that if both parties recieve legal advice concerning the agreement, and enter into it fully informed, then neither party can later renege. However, in law, there are exceptions to everything.
One complicating factor I believe will be that if a potential husband agrees that he will be the sole provider irrespective of the wife's income, then the wife may be forced to agree that she will receive alimony for her iddat period only. While this may not be objectionable at first, life throws us many curve balls, and given that in the North America divorced single mothers comprise the bulk of the continent's poor, I would be cautious to enter into such an agreement.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts. There are many many lawyers in the US who are muslim and who are much more knowledgeable in terms of the intersection of secular and religious rights. If you contact ISNA , I am sure they will point you in the right direction.
Maryam,
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
How sad that women have to take such steps in order to make sure that they are not forced to do the role of the husband in a marriage or be on the safe side incase the husband loses all his gheerah and misuses the money the wife has ever given him.
It is unfortunate but a problem that seems so common now - men with no sense of 'gheerah' in them to make them realise that it is their duty to pay and even if their wife earns, for them to have that much pride as a man to not want their wife's money spent where he should be spending.
It is a problem I believe more common in the west where men are brought up naturally affected by this mentality of "men and women spending equally"...even if they are aware that Islam says otherwise, deep down they find it acceptable and want it this way that the wife spends on the household. (Also of course you have alot more working women in the west.)
If I were you sister, and I saw all this happening around me, I wouldn't even continue the conversation with a man who brings up the issue of me spending in the marriage. That would tell me a lot about how much of a 'man' he is and how much he realises his responsibilities. Yes you can spend on the man you love and the man you would want to spend money together with, however, the correct way of that happening is that the man doesn't even consider or bring up the issue of you spending and you do it yourself, completely. I dont know about you but to me , if a man finds it acceptable that his wife spends on the house without his pride being hurt and allowing this to happen unless it is very necessary due to their financial situation and it is the wife's choice, , then to me, that man is not really a 'man' worth marrying.
So firstly, be careful in what the man you marry- his mentality - is like on this issue. Does he really realise his duty and does he look like someone ready to fulfill that role of being the sole provider.
Was salaam
It is unfortunate but a problem that seems so common now - men with no sense of 'gheerah' in them to make them realise that it is their duty to pay and even if their wife earns, for them to have that much pride as a man to not want their wife's money spent where he should be spending.
There are more men than women ages 18-24 in the USA — 15 million vs. 14.2 million, according to a Census Bureau estimate last year. But nationally, the male/female ratio on campus today is 43/57, a reversal from the late 1960s and well beyond the nearly even splits of the mid-1970s.
The trends have developed in plain view — not ignored exactly, but typically accompanied by some version of the question: Isn't this a sign of women's progress?
Today, though, the blue-collar jobs that once attracted male high school graduates are drying up. More boys are dropping out of high school and out of college. And as the gender gap widens, concern about the educational aspirations of young men appears to be gaining traction, albeit cautiously.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/
...........
The reasons for this problem are many . Men and women both are equally responsible for that . Do read the content in the above posted link .
Ty.
On a side note , why would a men marry a women if she has x, y, z conditions for marriage. Frankly speaking , if women have a good education and a job , then why do they quit the job after marriage if they know that the would be husband do not have good financial position ?. Putting up conditions before marriage will only put rifts in people's heart . The reasons are many sister . Blaming only one gender won't solve the problem .
Frankly speaking , if women have a good education and a job , then why do they quit the job after marriage if they know that the would be husband do not have good financial position?
Well bro, I have seen a lot of sisters who had good career and were well-educated but had to give up their jobs after marriage (read stories on this forum). Sometimes, due to pressure from husband, in-laws and other times just to look after the children; in fact a lot of sisters in the West are home-schooling their children. Even sometimes, husbands who are financially stable don't support their wives (Allah knows why?).
Putting up conditions before marriage will only put rifts in people's heart . The reasons are many sister . Blaming only one gender won't solve the problem.
I understand where you are coming from and I was in a discussion while attending an event where sisters brought this question up and I felt the same way. But afterwards I realised that problems can arise any time in a marriage with anyone, anywhere in any situation. Marriage is not a smooth ride bro, it's full of ups and downs; sometimes marriages fail due to external factors which do not involve husband and wife directly for instance, in-laws, friends, distant family etc etc. So, if a brother is satisfied with other things a sister has to offer and they match together then pre-nups is not a big deal. I won't look at it and think; she doesn't trust me or anything else because I want the same for my own daughter and sisters Insha Allah.
Lets' not start a gender war here bro and respect everyone's choices; if you don't agree with pre-nups; let the other party now and move on:).
Wasalam,
Muhammad1982:)
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com
Salams brother Lala,
What pre-nup has got to do with single male/female ratio. More boys are dropping of school etc etc has nothing to do with sisters; they had the same opportunity as sisters.
Do you care to explain your statement;
Men and women both are equally responsible for that .
Why women are responsible for this? I personally would like to see my own sisters having a secure future; so I agree with pre-nups to protect women rights in general. This scenario of living on wife's income is disgusting to be honest and it's everywhere but is widespread in West as sister Faith pointed out. I understand that their are certain circumstances but thinking and acting like wife is the bread winner of the house is not acceptable at all.
Wasalam,
Muhammad1982.
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com
W.S
God forbid in future , if you become one of those people who suffer from pre-nup agreements + U.S divorce laws(in case of divorce) . Your mindset will probably change, and then you'll understand what I am talking about .
I don't agree to your reasoning but I do agree that this problem is mostly prominent in the west .
Ty.
Lets' not start a gender war here bro and respect everyone's choices; if you don't agree with pre-nups; let the other party now and move on:).
Let's close this discussion as I know that it will only lead to confrontation .
Confrontation to what? You mean to say that we are afraid to confront something you will presumably make us face? If so then please go ahead and present your answer, I would love to hear why you think a woman can ever be blamed for not wanting to be the breadwinner. That sounds VERY appealing as it should to any Muslim.
As muhammad 1982 pointed out I think, I too am just...very confused by your reply. I dont understand what you were trying to imply there by the ratios etc.
-Salaam
Asalaam alaikum,
I wonder if this was the topic you needed more help with Sister Serendipity? Anyways, I thought it's an interesting topic considering the current global economic outlook. Here's my take.
If we think about the issue of dowry in Islam for the wife, then in this regard, there was a prenuptial agreement of sorts that has been encouraged through the commands of Allah (swt) through the revelation of Islamic principles. Remember that in the Age of Ignorance, which unfortunately survives today, it had been the other way around where the bride's family had to offer money to the groom. Islam did away with this custom and thereby elevated the status of woman in society and in marriage.
There's also the issue of the wife being paid for breast feeding her child and how that is also a look back from a modern perspective of the prenuptial agreement. Here we clearly see that there is basis of establishing a wife's financial security to a certain degree and ensuring that she is satisfied by the terms of the nikkah. However, the modern prenuptial leaves room to be desired.
Now of course, every case is particular these days and some men and women will have unrealistic expectations, letting materialism cloud their vision of marriage, but these people are easily weeded out and avoided with their request of exuberant sums and lavish spending on wedding ceremonies, where instead, those monies could be used to set a more solid foundation for the married couple. The ceremony is often an indicator of what is more valued Islamically by the couple, as well, wherein humility and happiness should play a larger role away from the desire to showboat, so to speak.
Also, it's important that we look at the economic climate that is persistent in the modern era wherein any type of employment does not have a long term guarantee anymore. I remember reading recently that architects are experiencing the greatest degree of unemployment of all college graduates. For those in those high unemployed categories, your financial plan and the way the way it may affect your marriage should be openly discussed if the immediate outlook is dim.
Economics are an ugly fact that we must deal with these days, because it can be a great cause of strife and exploitation in a relationship. Islam gives us a prescription of the husband being the provider and it's for a reason: that the wife should in turn acknowledge that a life built on materialism may quickly come and go, and instead the advice is to seek a pious spouse, first and foremost. That is not to mean that we cannot talk financials as responsible parties, but for all of us to re-examine what we feel our standard of living should be considering the world around us.
Potential husbands need to be careful in this regard and keep their expectation in check of their lifestyle, as well. Fuel costs and electricity costs are ever increasing, so a lavish car with poor fuel mileage and the big house that saps the megawatts should be considered as avoidable. Being able to also move to an area where employment is more likely is a key issue, as well. The wife should not expect to be in one country living luxuriously while her husband lives on meager means in another country while working. All efforts should be made to move together and keep the strong bonds of marriage. We see that through this site, long distance relationships often suffer from infidelity in many instances, so this issue should be avoided at all costs.
If the wife is willing to contribute to the living means, this should be voluntary and all intention should be made that her finances are not exhausted, but that the husband makes all efforts to provide for the family, instead. Again, this is where assessing the future lifestyle and living within modest means is paramount. Too often newlyweds are tempted by credit cards and loans which gather more debt, and should instead be conscious of their spending habits in this 21st Century.
The issue of whether they will rent or mortgage a house is also an Islamic matter, as Muslims are trying to find halal means to financing a home. This is an in-depth discussion, as we know that recent college graduates suffer from government loan burdens, as well and should cease to add to that load. However, older and cheaper homes may be considered if they are 'fixer-uppers" or have been foreclosed on. Too often new couples think they need the big house, when in fact, most will sell their first home within the first 5 years. In this case, lease agreements in renting scenarios and keeping the first formative years modest is the best solution. By doing this, the couple becomes financially frugal and concentrates on building the marriage and not over weighing it.
Given this perspective, when a person sits down with a potential, they should be conscious of a marriage "outlook." Questions to ask: Where will we be in five years? How will we plan and budget ourselves? Can we put off acquiring debt? Etc. This should not be embarrassing to bring up, because it lets the people know about the awareness of marriage and the seriousness of what they are doing.
So living a frugal lifestyle should be most encouraged. 60" flat screen televisions, brand new furniture in all the rooms, new cars and the like should be put aside and even brought into question as to why they are needed in the first place. This is where the families should focus on providing for their newlywed sons and daughters and provide what is necessary for the new living means. Put aside wedding gifts of Mont Blanc pens and Gucci watches, but instead gift new pots, pans and bed sheets, which should be the norm. Men must be honest and admit to their potential spouses that modesty in the home needs to be practiced so that savings are built diligently that will keep them well fed, wallet conscious and will act as a safety net if they become victims of unemployment roles. Bargain shopping is a key exercise here.
It's not the size of the bank account per se, but the planning that sets apart the dreamers and spenders from the intelligent and wise couples, respectively.
When a woman is asked to be the financial contributor, this is a chance for her to say, "What do you foresee for us and how will we get there?" If it's predicated on her share being vital, then the man must reconsider what he can really provide on his own. If he does not do this, then he should feel no hesitation in a prenuptial agreement to secure his wife, as she must then worry that his plans are not well thought out with solid reasoning. This is not to say that every plan is fool proof, but the reasoning behind it should be logically sound. For example, average living costs in their desired living area should be taken into consideration by him.
Should a woman desire to contribute with living expenses, she should not expect it to be returned without a prior agreement. Instead, she should see it as a means of living investment into their finances.
Should a woman have prenuptial agreement as a financial guarantee if something goes wrong? It's important to note that prenuptials fall into civil law and in many countries, while a judgment may be rewarded to her if they should divorce some years later, often there is not real recourse to recover all her funds if the husband is completely broke. Lawyers often base the cases they take on how much money they can initially find and if there's nothing to go after, they will usually take a retainer and the divorcee wife will have little to look forward to in reality.
Garnishment of wages is often talked about, but again, if there's no job or money, what is there to garnish? It's also clear in some States that repossessing property is often a long process and the plaintiff will earn little of what they invested. Another problem is lawyer fees that take the case to trial which in some cases can range up to 25-50% of recovered assets in total fees, provided that they is something significant to take. To avoid these hassles, a foreign born man could simply hop a plane back home and again, there is nothing to be recovered. Also, alimony is not guaranteed in every state or country. A divorcee may wait a few years to receive anything with court delays exercised by the defendant's lawyer. In fact, in most divorces outside of the rich and famous, it's the attorneys who profit more than anyone.
In light of this, the women should assure that she has appropriate savings either before or as a condition of her dowry in line with what can be expected fairly and equitably. This should not be seen as her "way out" money if things go badly, but instead as her "rainy day" fund to see her taken care of and Islamically provided for. However, she should be careful of her savings as a ways to assist her husband and should be conscious of her living expenses. However, Islamically, the husband controls his wages and spending habits without her.
Seeking the counsel of a financial planner may be appropriate, but solely relying on a prenuptial document as a safety net is like relying on a car with no gas. It's all about the fuel and thus, the planning instead.
Prof. X
Thank you very much for this answer sister. It was very helpful - brothers like Lala (above) clearly are clueless and narrow minded to try to understand that men and women are not black and white - I alhumdolillah have a career that I never wanted - but was educated well by my parents "just in case" and my ex-husband treated me miserly - in 4 years the only thing I ever bought for myself with his money was a lipstick and a pair of shoes for walking. I was not given my full dowry and I was not given any support during the separation/iddah. I was the kind who helped him save money, but Allah wants you to spend of his bounties in an appropriate fashion as that too is a sort of worship - to thank Him for the blessings of a halaal income! After my divorce I took up my career and now am seen by men as a "single woman with no kids - Ah, she is a catch". Some have told me that they have kids from previous marriages and are supporting the kids and paying the ex-wife an alimony, so they have nothing for themselves so they want me to support them. They are not looking for a wife, but a provider. Wonder if Br. Lala would like to hear more stories like this from me - I am not saying there aren't women who twist Allah's rules for a wife, I am just giving MY personal experience, as a middle of the road, Allah fearing woman who just wants to be married for companionship, peace and tranquility.
Alhamdulillah, thank you for sharing more of your personal experiences, because it keeps us abreast as to how certain men are "demanding" an un-Islamic marriage situation concerning living arrangements and financial situations. In those cases, perhaps those men should seek recourse with their wives, if possible. Also, they must have some amount of finances set aside for their current life.
From my understanding, the mahr (dowry is an incomplete translation I am told) is set to be given in full upon the nikkah, unless a time frame was arranged beforehand. And by not providing the full mahr, the man is in violation of shariah and the marriage can become void. However, the wife can forgive the remaining mahr if she sees fit if it was to be in partials, but this is only at her discretion and not a means of withholding for any purposes by the man. It is shameful that men agree to a mahr and do not fulfill it, thereby denying a very important aspect of the nikkah, as it is meant in honor of the woman. Of course, it can also be pointed out that the mahr can be other than financial.
While marriage is important for every single person, perhaps potential spouses need to rethink their lifestyles, make open concessions to downsizing and freeing finances further. Expensive cars can be sold for cheaper ones, carpooling and/or public transport utilized in appropriate cities, thereby lowering the cost for insurance, taxes, maintenance and fuel costs. Cable or satellite television can be eliminated as the internet can replace it with streaming, and entering into an internet co-op with trusted neighbors or living in communities with free internet access can eliminate this expenditure further. Most hard line telephone services are redundant to cell phones and even those cell programs can be streamlined for efficiency. Dining out can be limited and replaced with more intimate home cooking. Bargain shopping for clothes can be sourced and would then provide the new wife with a suitable living style that honors her and provides for her well being.
Tips like these can save several hundred dollars per month.
Living humbly is required all the more in these situations. It may be the case that these potential spouses are more afraid to fail at another marriage and pay the costs of it, because they do not understand how living modestly can reaffirm a new marriage with sound planning. In this light, these men need to assess what caused the dissolution of their first marriage and turn a critical eye at themselves, if finances are such.
Living moderately comfortable should always be the primary concern, though it does not need to be lavish. I am a big believer that moving to a place that accommodates a cheaper mode, but environmentally more beautiful place is paramount to a happy marriage. For all the electronic gizmos in the world can never take the place of quiet sunsets and star filled nights. And if moving to a foreign country is necessary for this, then so be it. Patriotism for your home country should play a distant aspect when it comes to living cleanly, honestly and healthy.
For those who run a business and either own or lease the property, it may be wise to turn it into a live/work situation. This is completely possible if he owns it and can be re-negotiated with the landlord if he rents/leases. Again, this would dramatically streamline his expenses.
Sr.Serendipity: Here's a question however, how long have these men been divorced, on average?