Is it mandantory to have sexual intercourse on the first day of wedding night?
Assalaam Alaikum all,
I would like to know Is it mandantory to have sexual intercourse on the first day of wedding night? been heard its a sunnah but if not practiced on the same day will it be sin... Look forward to your valued answers according to Hadiths & Quran.
Jazak Allah
Sameera, Dubai
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Assalaamu alaikum sister Sameera.
It is not mandatory to have sexual intercourse on the first night and it is not a sin not to, as long as you are not witholding sex without a good reason. If the couple want to get to know one another by talking this may be a good time. Either way they should work to get emotionally and physically closer to one another if they are not ready and InshaAllah it will happen naturally. But intimacy is an important part of marriage and should not be witheld indefinitely. Also the walima is NOT invalid if there has been no intercourse. There is a link explaining this fully but I cannot yet find it so if an editor knows please post it. If I find it I will post it JazakAllah.
Here is some tips for wedding night:
http://www.questionsonislam.com/node/11999
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Think about this, your husband will have waited his entire life for this night, he's been holding himself with excitement and anticipation to enjoy his right in the halal way. Imagine the disappointment on his face if all that hard work, the money he puts into the wedding and the time he takes off work only to find this right is delayed.
Again, it's a matter of understanding women's natures. Intercourse is not purely physical for women. They need an emotional connection in order to be aroused, and enjoy it. I think it's no big deal to wait a little. The couple can still enjoy intimacy and closeness and get to know each other. In fact a short period like this may make the actual consummation even more exciting.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
You see no harm in waiting. The way I see it is, Allah made it halal for men. If she's not on her periods, and she says no why did she get married? As far I'm concerned, you want to get married, be ready for intimacy the first night, otherwise don't marry him and let him find someone else.
I am not understand of females on this matter, they expect men to spend absolutely ****loads of money on the wedding, and they would deny the husband his right?
What does Islam teach, the woman should have no shame around her husband, what better way that to start off on the wedding night.
I'll tell you something, there was this guy who got married and his wife wanted to wait and get to know him more before getting intimate, the following morning he divorced her. He was a practising brother and he read out one of the hadith which refers to the man's right. He said I have paid my Mahr, I have signed the Nikah contract and I expect my right to intimacy, something which I have waited my whole life for.
He divorced her the following day and moved on with his life and found someone else. When you think carefully, everything he did was fine. Providing his wife wasn't on her monthly bleeding phase, he was right to expect intimacy.
I don't care what anyone says, once a man is married it's his right. If women don't want to give the husband this right or vice versa, why get married?
I understand the females have emotional needs, I didn't say he shouldn't fulfill those, in fact he should, but if she's not going to have any of it, you can see why many men just shut up and close shop before the marriage even begins.
I will not hesitate to say that when I get married in a couple of months, I would expect exactly the same, if I don't get my right, I will go to the airline headquarters in Pakistan and book the first available ticket home to Birmingham. I didn't wait my entire life to spend ridiculous amount on a wedding that I'm not bothered if it's fancy or not, to be told wait until I'm ready.
Please tell me if I've said anything in this post which is incorrect Islamically.
Sura Ar-Rum: 21: "And among His signs are that He created for you from your selves mates that you may attain calm unto them and He placed between you affection and compassion. Surely in that are signs for a people who reflect."
An-Nisaa:19: "And interact with your wives in a good manner for if you feel dislike for them, it may well be that you dislike something in which Allah places much good."
Hadeeth: "The best off you is the best of you toward his family (i.e., wife) and I am the best of you toward my family." At-Tirmidhi & others (sahih)
Al-Imraan 3:159: “And by the Mercy of Allaah, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh‑hearted, they would have broken away from about you; so pass over (their faults), and ask (Allaah’s) forgiveness for them”
The Prophet said, “Any person who feels not compassion and empathy towards his fellow man is neither of the heart nor mind of Islam.”
The Prophet said, “To successfully heal and forgive all wounds you must learn to cry, to laugh, and to pray. Allah bestows the power of healing to each of these in proper order.”
Happy reading John,
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Brother that story you told about the man who divorced his wife the next day, what a shameless man how did this story get to your ears and HE was a practising brother you say subhan'Allah she was lucky to get out of marriage to such a shameless man,..Brother you say your getting married Maasha'Allah remember to protect your wife's name you are like a garment to each other what is a garment protection, comfort, modesty,warmth, dont forget these things brother.
John,
Sex is a natural instinct that Allah swt has given us. Therefore it should happen naturally, but divorcing a wife if it doesnt happen on the first night is extremely harsh. Of course if she sat down and refused to talk/come near you point blank then thats wrong but the best approach is get to know her, speak to her, break the ice etc and engage in sweet talk and eventually kisses and foreplay etc. Rather than thinking straight to intercourse just see how it goes and allow it to happen naturally.
Brother John women are VERY different from men in this respect. And the wedding night/first time is just the beginning but it really can make or break the relationship. Women cannot seperate emotional from physical in the same way. So if there is a lack of emotional intimacy it will affect her ability or her enjoyment in physical intimacy. This is why it's so important for a woman to feel comfortable and loved before hand. Foreplay is also important for satisfaction. So its a lot more complex than that. If you satisfy her emotional needs she will be much more inclined to satisfy your physical needs.
Yasir Qadhi gets a lot of questions about marriage and the main problems are that: - my wife is cold and withdrawn during intimacy. If you speak to the wife 9x out of 10 she feels neglected or finds a lack of love.
Also if the woman is a virgin she will probably be very shy.
So a man has 2 options:
1) The man who jumps the woman or simply gets annoyed when she finds consumating difficult or is still wanting to talk etc. She is left feeling used, upset and like a maid. No emotional connection between husband and wife, she feels resentful and sex is like a chore.
2) The man who is understanding makes her feel comfortable. Willing to wait if she feels uncomfortable and who will be patient.In this way even if they can't consumate first night - the wife feels secure, and close to her husband.
Which one do you think will be there for her husband, and which one is likely to care about satisifying her husbands needs? Be patient, it'll pay off InshaAllah in both this life and the next! First impressions count!
I dont dispute that its a mans rights, but we should not be like the yahud were only concerned with rights and responsibilities, but forget about the spirit in which we do things. We should aim to improve our characters, emulate the Prophet SAW and realise we can't change people. Only ourselves
If we demand respect or our rights, it only drives people away from us and actually can lose us respect. But if we give others respect and rights and treat others well, we gain respect as well as reward and the most precious thing of all. (Allah swt's pleasure.)
May Allah make us among those He is pleased with.
Ameen
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Seriously what is wrong with you people?
I didn't say the man should rape the woman, which is what you make it sound like.
All you self righteous people who are supposedly "helping" me, need help yourselves.
I said that intercourse is a right, at no point did I say the man should "jump" on his wife like his animal.
I also hate people who pick and choose specific hadith to make their point. Have you not read the numerous other hadith, which say if a man can't control himself he should get married? Would you call those Sahaba who married for this reason amongst others animals too?
Please for the love of God Almighty read properly what someone write before coming out with a preach which is completely off topic.
Everyone says a spouse should be patient when it comes to intimacy, what if a spouse isn't willing to for several months (we've seen several females who've done this to their husbands), those husbands become tempted and go elsewhere.
Whilst it's important to try and please your wife, why are all these comments simply and purely about pleasing the wife, where does pleasing the man come into it?
Not a single one of you has mentioned from the male side, even the men on this site seem to be feminists, nothing about men's needs and wants always about the woman's. I come here give a balanced view and all you come out with preaches.
Yet not a single one of you has come out with a quote of mine which goes against hadith.
Johh, what you said is that if your wife doesn't have sexual intercourse with you on the wedding night, you would divorce her the next day. Frankly, that's ridiculous. You would ruin a potentially good marriage, a match of a lifetime, and waste all of the time and investment of your family and hers, because you can't be patient for a few days or a week? Some women will be ready for intercourse on the wedding night, some will not.
It's also a form of extreme emotional pressure.
If I buy a car and it doesn't work the next day, I'll return it. It's a lemon. But a woman is not a machine. You can't drive human relationships that way.
In my opinion, a wife asking her husband to wait more than a week or so is unreasonable, and I would not do it unless there were some serious reason for the delay (as in this case). But to divorce her the day after the wedding? That's just childish.
I was really hoping you would hear what people are saying to you, but that seems not to be happening.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
John, you seriously need to think and do some research before you post your answers on here.
John,
I've now changed my approach to your comments.
Instead of going: 'What the (&&&(&(&^^$%£$%^*...." and letting my jaw fall wide open in shock horror everytime I read your comments, I now laugh and then think: 'Ya Allah, give this bloke a wife who is strong enough to melt his hardened heart, otherwise he's end up killing her's, aameen!"
So John, my strange brother in Islam, 'Breathe, calmly, breathe' and repeat after Big SisZ:
"The world is not all a bad place, not all women are catwomen, not all men are hard done by, and there are nice people in the world and it is ok to be nice and understanding, it won't decrease my manliness".
If that doesnt work, watch this (and try to smile):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSYadh2xmcI
Best Wishes,
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
A lot of people think I'm very brutal and harsh, perhaps because I'm in a male dominated family.
Thanks for your duas.
If I fulfill my responsibilities as a Muslim husband and my wife fulfills her responsibilities everything will be fine and it will be a long and happy marriage.
They say she's the opposite of me, who knows, maybe this soft girl and this brutal guy (me) may meet at the halfway point.
Lol this made me laugh. Ameen to your dua sister. May Allah grant him a spouse who will melt his heart and give him a happy marriage.
I see many similarities between brother Johns manner of speech and my own brother's manner of speech. You'd think I'd be used to it after 20 years, but its more hurtful from a family member. So I think I will try your approach InshaAllah of laughing or letting it go.
So JazakAllah khair for inspiring me and wish me luck 🙂
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Dear John:
There is a reason why we are called human beings. We are not animals. If you meet a girl for the first time in you life, and if you do not even know her properly, how you can you simply jump on her and have sex? How can this make sense to you? You sound as if first night sex is compulsory. But this is not the case. If the events in your first night lead you to sex in a mutually loving way, fine. If not, then do you not have the patience to wait a few more days?
The way you write comments now a days suggest that you are probably suffering from severe frustration because of sexual deprivation caused by abstinence [forgive me for being judgmental, but I could not resist]. Being young men, we all suffer this problem sometimes. But that should not make us animals. The Messenger of Allah said:
Imam al-Daylami (Allah have mercy on him) records a narration on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is reported to have said: “One of you should not fulfil one’s (sexual) need from one’s wife like an animal, rather there should be between them foreplay of kissing and words.” (Musnad al-Firdaws Of al-Daylami, 2/55)
Yes, 'words' which means talk is very important.
And if someone is truly virgin (male) and have never had interacted with girls freely, wallahi, he should feel very shy in his first night of wedding. I will feel very shy and will be very tensed about how I will break the ice during my first night and what I will say (lest I do something stupid out of excitement and nervousness), let alone have sex.
Regarding the question about whether people should have sex in the first night, I just wonder, "Has Allah taken away common sense from the mind of the people?"
@ Br. Stranger
LOLLLLLLLLLL....Come on!!! Did you not know that common sense is actually not very common these days - and it is more expensive than gold and rarer than the rarest minerals - I would love to start selling it but there won't be many buyers because they won't know what I am selling
😉
Subhanallah brother Stranger so many things you said which I wanted to say to bro John.
John, ...come on..you have a point sometimes but this is really taking it to the next level. Mashallah you are an edcuated brother but I feel like you seriously have a longgg way before you understand a woman properly.
Life is not 'black and white' the way you seem to portray it; Husband gives the wife her 'rights'...wife gives the husband his 'rights'...and they live happily ever after. Err not lol.
If things were that simply then we really would be living a fairy tale life. There is more to life than 'rights'...and rights have conditions etc attached to them. Someones right shouldn't be given to them unhappily because they "should" get it ...you should "want" to give them their right, that too especially in a marriage. Even if one was to just do it unhappily because its his 'right'....its not really a healthy marriage. I hope you can see the difference I'm pointing out here.
There is a certain way to getting what is your 'right' in our deen..this is where we see how wise someone is - how they go about with certain situations, especially situations where they can misuse rights given to them. A wise man is one who will get all his rights and make it happen naturally.
As strangers mentioned, I too feel exactly the same; having read your posts lately, it looks like its more your hormones speaking than logic. You need to get married bro, lol.
Was salaamu alaikum
He keeps talking about his "rights"! It's disgusting. She has her rights too. Women are not here purely for your sexual gratification, John.
salams,
sorry to say but brother john s comments are really harsh.
its an islamic website where many people come for solace and comfort in problems..scaring them away with stern and aggressive replies will only make them even more depressed.
i too experienced it from my post .few days back.:
"marrying a dentist'post which made me even more confused and depressed.
jazakallah khair
Thank you for your input, I do take your feelings seriously.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Well I guess we all know now what the only thing on johns mind is! Stranger is right, he is probably very sexually frustrated and his wife will suffer because of it. If I was marrying someone I did not know, I would definitely put the brakes on that and choose to get to know him for a few days before jumping into bed with him. I could never have sex with a complete stranger, someone who I have hardly gotten to know personally in one day.
I don't know why everyone is being so nice to John. A women is not a sex object, as many hadith will tell you- I wonder if you will take any notice of the kind and generosity you have received from the brothers and sisters who have responded to you with words of wisdom.
A big part of Islam is control of your desires, without such control we are no different from animals. I am shocked and disgusted at what you boast about with pride, this is great ammunition for anyone who wants to tarnish the muslim name further.
I am new to this site and actually ashamed to be associated with such people as John (association through religion). The non muslims frequently tell stories like John, and I have always claimed is nonsense, now I am disgusted to find they are not lying when they refer to muslims with so many derogatory terms -they are actually telling the truth.
May Allah bless the sisters with understanding and patient husbands.
How can this ummah develop and progress if we can't even put aside our animalistic desires to take time to develop happy homes.
My advice to John is to marry someone with heaps and heaps and heaps of sexual experience, and not some innocent naive sister who may be left feeling traumatised and violated after day one. And what do you mean by male dominated household- what a disgusting remark?Was the Prophet pbuh household male dominated?
You bring shame to this community, may Allah replace such with better people-with the current state of the muslims, we have no chance. - even in Ramadhan, this is a sad dark day.
Where are you John, lets hear what you have to say to the advice given to you.
Ok hero, you asked for a reply and I'll give you one.
Male dominated = 7 men, just 1 woman, the mother. Not male dominated as is the men beat up women or something, so please refrain from these silly accusations.
Everyone keeps saying animal this and animal that, tell me where I said that there shouldn't be foreplay and make your woman feel aroused etc. If you can quote me then cool, if not again and don't put words in my mouth.
If a woman/man isn't prepared to get intimate when they're married, why marry? Why not let the other person marry someone who is prepared to be intimate.
One other thing, say the woman isn't prepared or ready for intercourse for 3 months or perhaps even longer, would that man who's waited that long and not getting any and making a fuss about it, would he be an animal too? The only difference is the time frame, but no one calls the second guy an animal.
True Islam says be patient and understanding, maybe people should be understanding before they decide to get married. If you're not prepared to give your partner their sexual rights, why marry?
This isn't his only derogratory comment he has made. In an answer to another question he said that even if a wife has been raped she shouldn't be selfish and give her husband his marital rights. If you have this kind of attitude john you won't get far in life.
Ok just say when you get married and you do have a healthy sex life from day one. Imagine a few months or few weeks into the marriage (after the honeymoon period dies down) your wife tells you she's not in the mood to have sex, will you divorce her then too? Or say for example, you are not in the mood on a single occasion, would your wife be justified in asking for a divorce? Or if your wife gives birth and she doesn't feel like having sex straight way, again would you think it's justified to divorce her? That's the kind of picture you are painting of yourself with your ignorant comments.
If your so concerned about sex on the 1st night maybe you should tell your future wife NOW whether she would be willing to have sex on the wedding night otherwise the wedding is off. Otherwise the poor girl might get divorced!
Salaam,
There is no prescribed period for the consumation of marriage, and patience is advised in this matter. I have borrowed an excerpt from Islam Q&A:
"If a man executes a valid marriage contract with a woman then it is permissible for the two to do as they please between themselves, even with only the contract. There is no period prescribed by Islamic shari'ah between the contract and consummation of the marriage, so this issue is up to the two partners as to what they decide is most appropriate and in their best interests.
It is incumbent upon both parties to consider, respect, and ensure the other one's personal comfort and ease. Thus, if the husband sees that the wife needs some time to become acclimated and develop their relationship and level of intimacy before consummation, such as 3 months, for example, he should do so, and vice versa. Likewise, it is incumbent upon the wife if she sees that her husband feels an urgent need to guard his chastity by consummating the marriage that she should not prolong the period so that he does not fall into a state of awkward discomfort and difficulty, and vice versa.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid"
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/225
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: “He who gave up disputing while he is right, a palace of high rank in Paradise will be built for him. He who gave up disputing while he is a fabricator, a palace in the center of Paradise will be built for him.” (al-Tirmidhi)
SubhanAllah - this stopped me right in my tracks. JazakAllah khair sister. We can only advise and it is up to the other person if they are open to advice or not. Its not in our hands. May Allah make us among those who refrain from pointless arguments and unite our ummah.
Ameen
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
I bear withness that there is nothing worthy of worship but allah and muhammad is his messenger
I believe John is right
If it were me i would divorce her , may give it a min or 2 but i proberly just walk out and leave or take her back to her parents house what ever the time of night was .
And know once the prophet may allahs peace and blessings be upon him got married to a woman and she didnot know that he was the messenger and on the wedding night she said that i seek refuge in allah from u , so he granted her a divorce and sent her back with a gift of 2 corse dresses ( a expensive gift )
Where do you ppl live really ?
Get to know the person b4 ?! You get to know if u like the person b4 u get married .
John is totally right , this one thing on his mind thing is insane ? Allah many times in the quran speaks of being with your wife , eg she is a garment 4 u , ........
I think we are on two different wave lenghts here , we are not monks . Where do u all live ? How do u get married to someone u are not attracted to ? Really are some of u all arab ? From the gulf or something when these chicks demand their $200,000 wedding dress and jewelry , wedding in a hotel ( at least 3 stars ) is this really what he has to look foward to the girl looks at him and says " well i wait and see " wait on what ? What is there to be shy about ? Dont u love the person ? Why did u get married to them ?
What exactly is so important that u must to other than to be with your husband/wife ? By allah there were sahabaah who got married and the muslims went to war and the messenger let the guy spend it with his wife and then moved to jihad ,( he was maytered in a state of sexual impurity and the angles actually washed his body on the battlefeild ) a right that a wife has over ypu is that u spend 7 mights with her if she is a virgin or 3 if she was married b4 . What exactly do u all think they are to do ? Play scrabble ?
Where do u all live ?
I am thinking and this is a shot inthe dark here that u are getting married to. Someone u do not know , or like , or are even physically attracted to .because u were talked into or pressured or forced to marry them . Or may be u tought he was really rich , or was intrested in familly stutus ? Your culture / overly protective parents prevented u from getting to know / talk to / see the person . Or u really hate him and somehow u said yes
To answer the question in my opnion ( which counts 4 nothing we follow only what Allah and his messenger said ) i honestly i do not know . So feel free to ingore me
1) i donot thik that u have to do it
2) however it is better that you do
3) plz i advise u strongly if u are going to do this , tell the guy b4 so he will know what to expect
That u kind of shy and new to it and need to adjust or whatever we can understand .
Mashallah John, you are getting there slowly...baby steps are better than nothing.
Take some time read about the purpose of marriage in Islam and the emotional impact of sex - especially for first timers. And you will learn about the importance of building trust, and a relationship bond which then strengthens through physical intimacy, into a partnership of mutual respect and understanding that then will set you as role models to your children, thats if you want your wife to love you and see you as someone she can feel safe with, and not be afraid of. Marriage is not only about intimacy, intimacy is not the only part of it, for her rights to intimacy to be fulfilled you have to meet many other criterion- starting with her state of mind.
Mashallah I have to admit, that's some super sexual confidence in you that you think a sister will take one look at you and get ready for intimacy, or maybe you are extremely talented- it maybe the case, however in most cases, unfortunately there isn't an on/off intimacy switch, and it requires some mastery to get a possibly fearful, nervous girl who is leaving the comfort and protection of her family for the first time and has never been in this situation before, to get her to relax and be in a state of mind where her rights of intimacy can be fulfilled on the first night of marriage. You have to expect and understand that she may not be ready on the first night, and if she isn't - its because something is missing and that something may not be physical.
Tell us something, how long does it take you to trust someone? and one the first night if you haven't met before, you are still a stranger.
Most of us will have heard of the gentle brother in the community, monster in the home cases- lets not repeat history, our public affairs situation is bad enough.
That being said, it depends on who you marry, you may marry someone who is expecting the same i.e an all nighter on the first night, maybe the sister will be thinking if he cant perform all night the first night im going for divorce first thing in the morning- bare in mind all the wedding food you will have had that evening.
OR
you marry someone scared to death, who will need lots of comfort.
Don't quote me on this, but I heard if you fail to fulfil your wife's sexual needs its a sin?
You have had lots of advice- it's been given because people have shown genuine concern, it's enough to probably copy and paste and write a book about the wedding night. I suggest you put the ego male dominance etc aside and open your heart to the advice you have had, there is ample reward in it for you- if you approach Islam with your guards up you will never grow. May Allah guide you and make it easy for you........and protect the sister you marry. 🙂
You have avoided answering some of the questions which I asked earlier, so I'll ask again.
If a sister or in fact a brother isn't ready for intimacy on their first night ie. when they become a husband/wife, why get married?
If you want to get married, surely, this has got to be common sense, surely you've got to be prepared for the things that come along with it?
Another question which I asked was how do you handle those sisters who go on for several days, weeks or even months (there are numerous examples on this site alone). Would you call a man who's waited 3 months for intimacy an animal or impatient? I doubt it, so why do people call the man who wants intimacy on the first night (note, a night is a long time, can be anywhere up and over 10 hours) an insensitive/sexually frustrated man, but not the man who's waited 3 months, when in principle all that seperates them is time.
There are loads and loads of reasons why I think intimacy asap is good, not least because the man who often looks forward to this night will be really happy at the end of it instead of perhaps feeling disappointed.
You've given a balanced view sure, but again there comes the question and this one is quite an important one. When Allah has given you a spouse to make something haraam, halah for you, and the other half postpones this, isn't the woman stopping the man from doing something halal?
Did the Prophet PBUH not say to the Sahaba once, if you sin you are punished, but if you do not sin you are rewarded, ie. if you make love with your wife, you are rewarded for something halal?
It's not to say not having intercourse is haraam, no far from it, because I know one of you would jump on me for saying this, but it's to say that intercourse in the halal way is rewarded and note, a reward for both man and woman.
I know everyone says wait and be patient and you'll find happiness, but I don't see it that way. I see men having to spend absolutely ****loads of money, excuse my language, on this wedding, in trying to support the wife and paying off the mahr, only to be denied one of the very few things he wants.
I'm not patient, I won't deny this and perhaps that's why you people are on my case, but oh well. Life is life and I'll get on with mine ok.
It's a damn good thing I never use my real identity and info online.
Brother all i can say after reading your comments, if you go around in life like a bull in a china shop dont cry in the end when all around you is chaos and broken some people need to get burned to learn all the talking in the world wont help them, why do people get married? in the hope that Allah (swt) will bless them with a decent person who fears Allah and be their life partner,
Ha, John, are you expressing anger? OK John, firstly most people here are trying to help you, not jump on you, in all honesty I don’t know whether its deliberate or not but your inability to show compassion mentality is shocking to most.
In response to your question, Intimacy on the first night is not a criteria for marriage . There is much more to it, most people want to marry because it’s a big part of Islam, for companionship, to grow and develop with a person, yes intimacy is a part of it but not primary.
It seems like, from your posts, you are buying intimacy and somehow seem to think you are not getting value for money if you do not get sex on the first night, you are not buying a night of intimacy. And because you spend some money and don’t get laid on the first night, you are willing to do something Allah hates ie divorce...no amount of money spent is worth that. And relating to money, most of the fortunes spent on weddings are for cultural reasons, and not Islamic.
You should try please Allah, by taking onboard the advice given to you in this forum- because the alternative of divorcing if she isn’t ready on the first night ie doing something that displeases Allah isn’t worth it, even if you spent every penny you will ever earn.
And if she is not ready on the first night, it isn’t an ultimatum that you will not get it at all, as you bond, and build trust, you are starting the marriage on a solid foundation, where both parties are happy intimacy is natural it will happen- your only disappointed if it’s the only thing on your mind, I’m sure you know how women feel about men only interested in one thing.
You are right intercourse with your wife is rewarded, again there is criteria relating to the needs of both the man and women.
Just remember this women will be looking after your parents, your kids, your house, your money, your respect- it might be wise to consider her feelings and your relationship with her. And if waiting one more night or a few days means you have a happy family, I think you will agree its worth the wait.
If you refer back to some the hadith the brothers and sisters have quoted above, there is criteria which if met she can delay it and its not haram. I have heard a reasonable time is 7 days- but I only heard this, if the wait was 7 days I don’t think I could imagine your fury. On that note lets say she isn’t ready on the first night- would you simply storm off, and say fine i’ll come back tomorrow and go chill with the boys in a mood?
You have a valid point when referring to the extreme of 3 months, in such cases there is clearly something wrong, and you have to question why it wasn’t dealt with after a few days, and left for so long. Nobody should tolerate 3 months it’s completely unreasonable. If she isn’t ready after a few days you should talk about it to determine what’s stopping her and what issues she may have, and try to resolve them.
Sexual desires are the very very basic desires the humans have, what separate’s muslims from non muslims is control over these desires- if you haven’t, then learn.
And do not go into marriage thinking it is your absolute right to sex on the first night, expect that it maybe will take a few days, and that there is nothing wrong with this.
I don’t think there s moreleft to say n this, you can take the advice or leave it, bare in mind, most of the posts are from other women...
Kash,
I think the best thing to do in this situation is “to agree to disagree”. John has his own views and we have our own. We cannot force somebody to think like us nor can we force someone to change their mind. John is adamant with his point of view and mashAllah some great advice has been given, but I think it’s about time we end this debate.
John, my only advice to you is that you understand that Allah swt has made man and woman emotionally and physically different. The recipe to a successful marriage is what I call the “You-Me” approach. In this scenario the husband thinks of his wife’s needs and the wife thinks of her husband’s needs. That way both needs are being met, but when we start thinking in “Me-Me” ways, then only your needs are being met and not the other person’s. Also, the You-You” approach (where only one person’s needs are being met) is also a recipe for disaster.
In a nutshell, if you think of your wife’s feelings and concerns and she thinks of your feelings and concerns then the marriage will run smoothly—to make this approach successful however both parties need to understand this. A simple example is as follows: the wife is at home all day and misses her husband and wants to spend time with him once he comes home. He arrives home from work and is very tired but he knows his wife has been lonely all day. He decides to take a short nap and wake up and spend some quality time with her. While he is napping the wife understands that he is tired and doesn’t get angry. However, when she sees that her husband has awakened and wants to spend time with her, she is happy. In this situation, both parties are satisfied as both partners’ have cared about one another’s needs (and not only their own). They have not been selfish and only thought about themselves. I really feel that you need to incorporate this train of thought as mashAllah you are getting married soon. I wish you all the best and hope that your heart softens and you learn to put your wife’s needs before yours and vice versa—that’s what love is; it’s about being selfless and not selfish.
-Helping Sister
You know what I'll do what you guys say, I'll "talk and not make any approaches until she's ready".
It;s really interesting because the night I go to Pakistan is the Mehndi (a shameless tradition) and the following night is the Nikah. My older friend (my experienced Muslim brother who gives me advice) laughs because he thinks for 3/4 days I'll still have jet lag so no energy for intimacy anyway. He said he didn't either, so maybe this is how things work out in the end. Maybe my "disgusting attitude" is going to be "melted".
Any and whichever way I look at it, I hate weddings and I don't think I'll like mine either, the noisy rabble and the parents who can't control their kids.
Peace and blessings be upon you all.
PS. Just now that I'm done on this question, I don't plan on having intercourse the first few nights, not with 200 guests overnight in the same home. I dare not utter a single word, case someone hears and passes on the "gossip".
Quick note to the brothers and sisters who have commented, jazza kallahkhairun for the references, may many continue to benefit for your efforts.
LOL @ John. Its men like you that sicken me to my core, you have no consideration and have created this illusion in your mind that having a wife equates to her being some kind of sex object.
I doubt anyone would make you wait three months but any kind of intimacy requires time, understanding and most importantly paitence. I think you should try and keep any open mind about how your wife may respond to you on the first night, she may just want to talk and get to know you better. Surely, you would want the same? Sex without love/substance holds no value - even if you're married and your partner is pretty much a stranger, its the emotional connection that creates a strong marriage.
I agree with John however coming to think this is something that will not benefit me on the day of judgment . Actually standing b4 Allah and answering whyi wrote anything when really did not know the whole situation or indeed , putting my opinion at all . One of the scholars of the past said how do you say something that you did not have predecessor for . Meaning that Islam imperfect and complete as allah says inthequran an ayah that we all know " this day I have completed my favor upon you and am pleased with Islam as a deen for you ." So all the answers we needs something that Allah and his messenger has already tought us . As any one can see in reading the comments , all of us really don't know we have our own opinion and we can go and pull out whatever from the Quran and sunnah to pull out something that supports our own view
What I wrote was from my own opinion , and emotion cause well I tought that John was right and u were picking on him .....
So what do we do ?
Luckily we are Muslim and we know that Allah said that if you differ in anything refer it back to Allah(Quran ) and his messenger ( the sunnah )
We are also to ask the ppl ok knowledge if you do not know.
Sameera my muslim if you live in dubui. Then surly there are some person ok knowledge where you live either an imam or something plz ask them
If u are shy then get a sister that u trust to ask for you , or to ask his wife for you
Not only should this person have knowledge about the sharia knowledge about it but he / she would know your culture as well as other persons who have the same problem
This is what I should have said in the beginning
""............."........ ADMINS. plz delete my comments b4 ".................
Some times I open my mouth or write something and then think about after , I still think I am right however this comment and what other ppl all over t he world who read it and what. They think and act upon it is something I really do not. Want to have to stand before and talk about . Something I really don't think about even though I know it is the fact that it will happen . The sahaaba had it better some would actually keep something in his mouth and take it out only when they were sure what they had to say was beneficial .
Sameera my Muslim sister plz after. U find your answer from a person of knowledge in your.country plz post the reply here so it can be a benefit to other ppl.
Adheim
admins plz delete everything else but this
Correction
It should read >>>>>Meaning that Islam is perfect and complete as allah says in the Quran .....
My keyboard is giving problems
Assalamu Aleikum dear Brothers and Sisters,
I think this is a very complex topic and we could write a lot about that. First of all, sex is not everything and
no Islamic scripture commands us to do it on the first night. The prophet(p.b.u.h.) said that there should be
foreplay and kissing between the couple, intending that sex alone is not the most important thing. I believe
that love marriage in Islam is not necessarily impossible, as u can develop feelings for the brother you
choose to marry which are positive. Physical attraction is important 2, etc, etc, etc. No man who has a little
understanding of the female physique will insist on having sex immediately. There are intelligent ways of
provoking such a situation without being intrusive and hurtful to the woman. When you compliment her,
kiss her, give her a massage, you will break the ice first. Tell her that you absolutely don't want to push
her to sleep with you. Then she will relax psychologically. Get some good massage oil, prepare the dinner
( if you can't cook, order the food from outside), and give her good and long foreplay including the fore-fore-
play as well. I personally don't like the perception among Muslims and many Asians and that is the most
important issue for me as a Muslim feminist, that the female is always shy and inhibited, down on her knees,
whilst the men are "horny"( sorry, delete it if it's inappropriate language) bastards, always after the beauty of
women, greedy for sex. That' s of course not true. One of the relatives of Al-Muhammad once said: One-tenth
of modesty in public and one-tenth of desire when the woman is alone with her husband. Imam Jafir al Sadiq
one said: The best among your wives are those who wear an armor of shyness in public and discard this
armour when they're alone with the husband. So the woman is also encouraged( apart from the wedding
night) to discard her shyness and feel relaxed. Make it as pleasant for her as possible, and she will lose
herself. When she has lost herself, she may demand it herself. Wait until she begs for it, don't even think
of demanding it from her. In Islam, the husband and the wife both have so many rights that each of them will
probably fall down on their knees when the rights are being listed. But human interaction requires
sensitivity and there are intelligent ways of how to get your rights. Don't forget the oil, don't forget to tell
her things like, You are so beautiful, you are my heart, you are the most important person in my life from now
on, I want to share my life with you, I have only eyes for you, sweet words from the heart. How the
evening or the first night will be lies in your hands, and it depends on your dexterity as a Muslim man who
is insha allah learned.
Jazakallah
Assalaam
I was encouraged by the advice you put here, very beautifully worded. But I would like to point out a few additions which I feel would make your statements more realistic and balanced as you have omitted any advice to the sisters.
Firstly, many men can also be very shy or feel awkward on their wedding night. This might affect their performance, etc. It's important for the woman to make her husband feel just as comfortable as she would like to be herself. Few men actually have the temperament or desire to "demand" intimacy, as this makes the whole process much much less romantic. Most men would just be put off by their spouses coldness and not say anything.
If a man doesn't fulfill his wife's expectations on their wedding night she is also required to show patience and understanding. Marriage counselors research indicate that this occurs quite often too.
Speaking as a young man, I know very few men who would want their wives to be 'shy and inhibited' in the bedroom. Most men prefer the exact opposite. Its important to learn to communicate about wants, expectations and desires (after marriage of course) and not let assumptions and preconceptions do their damage. I certainly don't think either I or my wife should have to 'beg' for physical experiences, either sex or just even a kiss.
I write this keeping in mind the fact that physical intimacy is one of the most obvious parts of marriage, especially for Muslims as we are not allowed any outside of it. I think it's irresponsible for any partner to expect that the other doesn't want intimacy. This goes against the spirit of nikah.
Dear Brother John:
Much has been already said about this issue, and I will add this concluding remark of mine:
"Refuse sex first night, divorce her straight next morning"--this is what you have said.
The bottom line is- the attitude shown through this statement of yours is totally rude and merciless.
It is well known that an Islamic marriage has two components. Love and mercy. Only love, which consists of love of the heart, intimacy, and sex, is not enough for the survival of marriage. It is the western concept that love is enough. In Islamic view, mercy is essential for a marriage to thrive and survive.
If someone divorces his wife right after the wedding night because she has refused sex, in my humble opinion, that would be the epitome of mercilessness, and thus no matter whom that man marries later, his marriage will not be successful since he lacks one of the key Islamic elements of marriage, which is mercy.
I was inclined to believe that you are not so merciless in real life. Sometimes while writing in online forums, we end up writing stupid comments, and I wanted to believe that this was one such stupid comment. In your follow through of your comments, you had the chance to admit that you have made a wrong comment. But you did not. You rather accused us of being feminist (while we have some feminists here, I am clearly not), and wrote long posts which were totally irreverent.
Look, I am not trying to win this petty debate over you. The Messenger of Allah said,
"“I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.” [Abu Dawud]
Since you are getting married, I would like to tell you humbly that humility is essential to make a marriage successful.
When a husband and a wife get into petty debate, it is essential that someone give up for the sake of family happiness. This is a sign of wisdom. Since we have been made the leaders of family, we should take the lead in showing this wisdom. Like sometimes while arguing with mom, I give up despite feeling that I am right, because if I continue to argue, it may give rise to a sore relation between me and her and this sore relation is not worth my argumentative battle win over her.
There was a husband and a wife who got into debate over something silly. They did not talk for a while and then the husband initiated the healing by taking her wife to a restaurant. Before they start eating, the husband said, "Look you are at fault for whatever happened, but I have forgiven you this time. I will not tolerate if such thing happens next time."
The wife was hurt and it was irreparable. Why was it so difficult for a husband to show a little humility and take the blame even if he was right? Shouldn't leaders make sacrifice? Does it worth to make the family relationship worse because you want to win a battle over which bed sheet to buy?
Of course I am not telling you listen to every word of your wife and be not strong. Assess the situation.
It is OK that you have not admit that you have made a stupid and rude statement, but when you get married, please make sure you do not show the attitude of must win every battle/debate. Express humility, admit your fault and give up even if you are right: for that is the sign of true leadership and maturity.
Allah said,
O you who have believed, indeed, among your wives and your children are enemies to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon and overlook and forgive - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. [64:14]
Assalam
I must say I was amused by this thread. Brother John vs. the feminists. Does it always have to be that way? On this and similar issues, I believe it works best if BOTH husband and wife consider each others points of view mutually. It worries me that we are so insecure and only demand our gender's rights before we even acquiesce to comply with the rights of the other spouse. As an unmarried Muslim man, I think it would be ideal if my wife approaches me first. It's the attitude that matters. If she is averse to intimacy from the beginning, that would be disappointing, but I really don't mind if it takes a few days or weeks (I mean I waited so many years lol). I would definitely want to make my wife comfortable and happy, but I would also expect her to know my rights and want to fulfill them too.
Please, sisters, do not assume most Muslim men think of women as sex objects! You don't know how untrue that assumption is. Every time I see such attitudes from Muslim women I get irritated. Reason being you are judging us before you even know us. If you just came into marriage with a clean, positive attitude it would really help. It's annoying to see our women having so little faith in us when deep inside, we are ready to make huge sacrifices to ensure their happiness and well being.
Remember, you may call yourself a feminist, but I will never call myself a 'masculinist'. If you truly believe Allah mad us equal, you should have no insecurity and no need to categorize yourself regarding your gender. Men and women may be physically and emotionally different, but spiritually we are all equal. If the spiritual side is healthy, issues like this become very insignificant.
Jazakallah
Thanks Brother Yunus for this balanced view.
Now a days we find a lot of articles that teach Muslim husbands about how they should treat their wives. While I really appreciate these articles, I sometimes find it odd that there are rarely articles published which teach the sisters about how important it is for them to being open to sex and intimacy unless they have genuine reasons to opt out.
And to be honest, in this time of fitnah we have to struggle a lot to stay away from temptations. Now if in home we find our wives not welcoming to the idea of sex and intimacy without proper reasons, we will definitely find it disappointing, and in some cases, it may even lead to the growth of resentment. Resentment may either led men to haram like prostitution and pornography, unless the man posses strong imaan.
Regarding our (man) rights, we do have our rights, but personally I think I will be embarrassed if I have to spell out my right of sex to my wife . I mean how can a sexually frustrated husband can simply say to her wife that she should give herself in when he demands, and if she does obey afterward, will the husband then not feel the whole process like something mechanical?
So, yes, I believe many Muslim husbands are sympathetic towards their wives. It is time that our sisters become more sympathetic towards our struggles and vulnerabilities, and be more open and initiating about sex, unlike their feminist counterparts. Or may be they should allow us to take another wife? 😉
The only reason this thread has come thus far was John's suggestion to divorce the wife for refusing sex in the first night. Feminist or not, that was simply too drastic to swallow.
I really agree with john coz the women cant say wait for a minnut also coz its mans rights. and sister sameera dont think on this argument which going on here remember only sahih hadeeth of rasulallah sas that
"If man a husband is asking women to sleep with him then women cannt say no even if she is cooking also she has to leave all jobs and go first to him and if she didnt go then all the malaikas will send lanat for her."
This hadhith is showing the important of mans right in Islam so deeply think on it and then decide hadith says if you are cooking also u have to go I think cooking is the most important job if u leave this job with ought completing the things that u are making will spoiled. so think on it dont go against hadith please my sister.
I think u have to reed sahih hadith on this mater and what is quraan says and follow that if u are a muslim if u dont have hadith books u can get it from Islamic sites.
going against quraan and hadith will take u to the kufr so dont do it please.
the sisters who are apposing it I also requesting them that they also have to reed quraan and hadith before commenting on any matter of Islam.
I hope u will understand.
thanks
Any man who cannot wait till after his wife has finished her cooking needs to take lessons in patience.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Saif, your comment is nonsense. That is not a hadith that you quoted, even though you put it in quotes. Don't you know that Rasulullah (sws) said that whoever tells a lie against him, will find his seat in Hellfire.
And what do you mean that going against Quran or hadith is kufr? Do you mean that anyone who commits a sin is kaafir? Are you some kind of khawaarij? Do you know that the khawaarij were cursed by Rasullullah (sws)?
Don't come to this website with such extremist nonsense.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
He didn't quote word for word which he shouldn't have done, but his comments are valid. Here is the proof.
A woman came to ask the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) about some matter, and when he had dealt with it, he asked her, “Do you have a husband?” She said, “Yes.” He asked her, “How are you with him?” She said, “I never fall short in my duties, except for that which is beyond me.” He said, “Pay attention to how you treat him, for he is your Paradise and your Hell.”
Al-Targhib wa’l-Tarhib, 3/52, Kitab al-nikah.
“ Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: ‘Any woman who dies, and her husband is pleased with her, will enter Paradise.’
4/173, Kitab al-birr wa’l-silah
“If a man calls his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he goes to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until the morning.”
“Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) will curse those procrastinating women who, when their husbands call them to their beds, say ‘I will, I will . . .’ until he falls asleep.”
Fath al-Bari, 9/294, Kitab al-nikah
“By the One in Whose hand is my soul, there is no man who calls his wife to his bed, and she refuses him, but the One Who is in heaven will be angry with her, until the husband is pleased with her once more.”
Sahih Muslim, 10/7, Kitab al-nikah
“If a man calls his wife to his bed, let her respond, even if she is riding her camel [i.e., very busy].”20
And:
“If a man calls his wife, then let her come, even if she is busy at the oven.”21
Majma’ al-Zawa’id, 4/312
“If anyone of you is attracted to a woman, let him go to his wife and have intercourse with her, for that will calm him down.”
Sahih Muslim, 9/178, Kitab al-nikah
Brother John,
A lot of what you have said is correct; A man has rights to intimacy, the wife 'should' obey her husband, etc etc. I have already supported your comment on the other thread regarding the questionner who posted about his 11 month wait for intimacy. I don't think anyone here is denying these points.
However, you are ignoring what has already been brought to your attention by Stranger; that it was only your comment about divorcing the wife next day- if she isnt able to consummate the marriage -which has made the sisters as well as the brothers here very disappointed. That comment of yours cannot be justified brother, so I hope that even if Shaitaan does not allow you to admit that mistake of yours openly here, then atleast in your heart and mind you have realised how wrong that attitude/statement was. 🙂
Anyhow, will take this chance to pray for a successfull life for you and your wife-to-be inshallah. May Allah (swt) grant you both a happy married life and bless you with pious offspring. Ameen.
Was salaam
This is the problem with you guys, you never actually bother to read what someone types.
Quote me where I said I would divorce, please go through all of my posts on this matter and find a single quote of mine where I said I would divorce.
I said I would go home, there' s a difference between going home and divorcing, you can still be away and married.
You people seriously need to read carefully.
Why would I go home? Because I can't stand the idea of spending an insane amount of money just for a nikah and speaking to a woman, if a woman needs to speak and get to know her husband that can be done via the phone as well. A total and utter waste of time and money to go over to the other side of the world to get married to be told "hey don't come anywhere near me till I'm ready".
I hope that you guys can get it through your systems that you need to read carefully.
I also said I understand the man who divorced his wife the following day, it was probably more than just the lack of intimacy, but probably the main thing.
Brother yunus which sister on this post has called herself a feminist???. brother if you have grown up amounts muslim women like mother sisters cousins aunties and the males and females in that family respecting each other i think that helps a lot to see things from diffierent points of view and vise versa, you dont need to be told that most women are more emotional and most men more logical when dealing with new living situations, and you said " ideal you would like your future wife to approach you" brother that would be very unlikely and you should not get hurt or offended by that its just the way we are wired in my opinion, that does not mean later after you get to no each other things wont change they will but the first night i think shows each side the kind of character their dealing with.
Assalaam
Sister Zenaa
I assumed many people on this thread see themselves as being feminist. Sorry about that. I am confident my upbringing was appropriate, Alhamdu-lillah. If you read my earlier post carefully, you would notice that I acknowledge that men and women are very different emotionally and also that I would not take offense if my wife wasn't as keen as I would ideally want her to be. My intention was to put through the man's kind of expectations, but I also mentioned that I would be okay with waiting and building trust, etc. Actually, I wouldn't choose to marry someone who I feel is so emotionally detached from me as to not want to be intimate with me in a reasonable amount of time. I do not think i live in an ideal world nor do I entertain illusions. Enough about me lol.
Now you will get my point by noting that despite my balanced, reasonable, two sided approach, you still seem to think of me being vulnerable and immature. This is the attitude I was trying to dispel. I just want our women to have a bit more faith, that's all. Yes, I have come across negative attitudes from women numerous times before, and it does indicate that gender relations in our Muslim society are suffering.
As to what actually happens on my wedding night, Allah knows best! There are many types of men and women out there and their attitudes towards intimacy may vary greatly, so I don't think something or the other is highly likely or unlikely. I will take whatever Allah gives me, as I do in any other matter in life.
Shukran
Brother yunus i dont think women on this post are talking about attitudes like yours but the complete opposite to the way you think iam sorry if i misread your post,
kash ??/???
Apologies all, sorry Zenaa, for my last entry-now deleted by admin.
The bottom line is. John is paying money and in return he wants sex, and he is trying to justify it to himself by taking hadith relating to intimacy that suit him out of context and applying them to the first wedding night(similar to what you will see the media and critics of Islam doing) and if he doesn’t get the intimacy he paid for, he wants a refund i.e. is willing to divorce and take back the mahr, and has convinced himself that this is a shariah compliant action- I’m sure I am allowed to Laugh Out Loud at him for that?
This is all about love for the money right John? You must be more furious now after the comments you have received, because it ultimately means, after all the money you will spend, you MAY NOT get what you paid for.
John there is a centuries old trade where some people pay money for intimacy, just don’t confuse that with marriage.
I would like to ask you a question John, following the advice, if your wife to be says no on the first night when you are still a stranger, will you then punish her at a later stage, use it against her for the rest of your married life, because you didn’t get what you paid for?
Please refer to previously given advice John - marry someone with heaps and heaps and heaps of experience in being intimate, you are not as likely to have any of the issues raised here.
Sorry All but I cannot be compassionate to Johns attitude, especially considering the effort everyone has made to assist him, in my view he is being deliberate in ignoring the charity given to him.
This reminds me of what a soldier in Iraq said “muslims treat their women like @@@@ so why shouldn’t we”.
The sahabas accepted Islam without question, yet here we are still trying to convince someone to understand something simple, lets not dream of a ummah any time soon. Well done John and the likes, keeping the devils smiling.
You need to stop being so full of yourself and perhaps read what people write carefully.
Please quote me if I said I would divorce. Please find the exact words where I say I will divorce.
You will fail to find them, so everything you've said falls flat on it's head.
If only people bothered to read, that's your problem you assume one thing means another.
What you'll find as I've stated in another comment, is that I said I would get up and book the earliest flight home. Going home does not = divorce..
Why would I go home you might as ask, well if a female wants to get to know her husband by conversation, that can be done over the phone and now through web cam etc if she wants to see body language.
It's a total waste of time to travel to the other side of the world to do something you can easily do through other methods.
I have no plans to divorce come what may. It's a shame you and the others don't have the ability to read what someone types.
As for your comment about those hadith not applying to the wedding night, does it say in the hadith "except for the wedding night"? Does it say a time period ie "for the first 3 months"? I think you'll find not, so please don't add to hadith, read them for what they are.
You also ask what kind of a relation is built if I am disappointed the first night, who knows how I'll react, I'll cross that hurdle when it comes, but I know this much, if push comes to shove and I have to "get to know her " before I am allowed to touch her, I will be extremely disappointed. Words cannot describe the disappointment, in fact thinking about it now, if it does happen to me, I think i'll just pull out my laptop and youtube some comedy videos.
I understand what John is trying to say . I agree to it . Some people are taking his comments out of context and not reading it properly .
I also want to mention that I had a fun time reading "Kash" comments . Utterly ridiculous !! . I don't know why she/he is blasting at John . All her/his post is filled with assumptions and nonsense . Lmao
Your agreement only indicates the extent of the problem, despite this issue now going round in circles.
I would say more, but I love my food too much and it's time to eat. Good luck.
"He divorced her the following day and moved on with his life and found someone else. When you think carefully, everything he did was fine"
So you wouldn't do it but saying someone else who has done it has done everything fine is not gonna make anyone think you approve of their action and think similarly?
Sometimes in life bro, actually many a times, supporting someones wrong actions is enough to show our own opinions and how we would react in a certain situation. I think your trying to find some loophole now to escape from..you didnt say "I would divorce her" but what you have said, like what I have quoted from your words above, is sufficient to portray the attitude.
And you need to stop thinking that just because you spend money in order to get a wife, your return should be sex. As many have indirectly yet rightly claimed, your getting married, not hiring a prostitute who should give you sex in return for the money you've spent on her. Spending money on a wife is a right that can be fulfilled without an emotional connection, however, intimacy cannot be done - in the case of a woman- without some form of emotional bond.
Was salaam
Thanks Sister Faith for exposing the trickery of John here. Instead of admitting that he has made a harsh remark, he has tried to hide from his own comment by trying to find a loophole, as you have put it, but have failed miserably.
Imam Shafi (R) said that he never argued with two kinds of people: fool and arrogant. We need to remember this golden saying before writing further posts and waste our time by arguing with John.
I have to laugh at you guys. I'm not find any loophole. You're trying to justify your silly comments by basically saying 1 + 1 = 2.
I said I see nothing wrong in it, which is right, I don't. Divorce is the right of a human being just as much as anything, if a man divorces after being married for less than 24 hours, that's his choice and the girl and her family will have to deal with it.
I also said and I'm growing tired of saying this, I would pack my bags and leave to come home, ie leave Pakistan to come back home, I did not mention divorce, it's not that difficult to miss the term divorce when typing stuff like this, and I deliberately did that.
I still do not change my opinion on the matter and refuse to. If that makes me barbaric, inhumane and selfish, so be it. Rather that than a man who crawls around on his knees with his wife holding a leash around his neck.
John,
May Allah give your wife immense sabr and wisdom to deal with you, aameen.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Brother John,
I think you should ask the girl this question before marrying her. This way You will come to know If you going to spend money on right thing or not. 🙂
Assalaam
Kash
"John there is a centuries old trade where some people pay money for intimacy, just don’t confuse that with marriage." - I really like the way you put that point across. LOL x 3. I just want to add that everything in Islam is not governed by Fiqh. The Fiqh is the bottom line but we are expected to try harder and be better than just the minimum requirement. According to the Fiqh, a wife is obliged to comply with the husband's requests as is the husband (even on the wedding night). But if he/she needs some acclimatisation, his/her Muslim spouse should wait a little. It's a small price to pay for something so special. It's just that simple. Remember, on the day of Qiyamah, we will not be asked whether our wives have fulfilled our rights, but rather if we have fulfilled theirs.
Let me also say that if we Muslim men do not treat our women well, non Muslim men WILL come and seduce them away from Islam. Similarly, if our Muslim sisters abuse and disrespect us, we WILL also be tempted to go for non Muslim women. Don't you see how so many of our society's problems are related? It is therefore incumbent upon us all to try and be the best Muslims we can and do our part to reduce the misery of the community. I will go so far as to admit that my own father's treatment of my mother sometimes wants to make me cry, and I will never want my wife to experience that grief.
Brother John, when I was less knowledgeable about the Deen, I may have agreed with your sentiments. Nowadays we do have to pay large amounts of money to meet societal expectations in a marriage. What I was shocked was the fact that you seem to see the intimacy as a return for the money. You need not worry, if you just be a good husband you will get much more than your money's worth in intimacy and much else from your marriage. There are so many things money cant buy, and intimacy is one of them. That's just life.
Kash, despite everything that's going on, I still do dream of an Ummah and always will. Always keep up hope in Allah and know for sure that at the end we will be successful Inshallah. The promise of Allah is surely going to come true!
Peace upon you all
The problem herein lies that people are incapable of reading what someone types properly. Everything I've said meets the Laws given to us. Man and woman agree to marry, a mahr is to be paid, in front of witnesses contract is signed. Mahr is paid and the man and woman become husband and wife.
Once they are husband and wife, everything that comes with married life is theirs.
Imagine a man saying to his wife, hang on a sec I don't want to tell you about my money or give you any money yet because I don't know you well enough. Certainly a valid point, you are strangers would you trust a stranger with your money?
Brother John, I did not say that your views are stipulating haram. I just said you are being quite harsh. Its my opinion. You have every right to divorce a woman if she is unreasonably denying you your rights. Its just the attitude that worries me. My point was that despite the laws being as they are, piety comes from doing the 'best' thing, and not just the 'lawful' thing. In your case I would advice marrying a woman who is very well acquainted with the Quran and sunnah, so that she knows exactly to what extent she may be expected to fulfill your rights.
"... piety comes from doing the 'best' thing, and not just the 'lawful' thing"
Mashallah brother that was put so beautifully, and it is so true.
Was'salaam.
This was indeed beautiful from Brother Yunus.
I will tell a story. I know of a family where there are two sisters and one brother. The sisters are married, and mashallah, their husbands are very rich, and they are now staying in cities. Their brother on the other hand is poor. He cultivates the piece of land that their father left them with, and with that the brother can hardly meet the needs of his family.
Now suddenly, the sisters announced that they will take their shares from their father's piece of land. Of course from the fiqh (legal) point of view, the brother has no option except giving the due portions to his sisters. At the same time, we cannot say that the sisters are doing anything wrong from legal point of view.
But as brother Yunus has put it here, sometimes we need to look beyond fiqh. The income from the piece of land is not adequate for the bother alone, and if it now gets reduced because his sisters taking their parts despite not needing them, will it not be an act of dhulm?
This is a true story.
Fiqh is indeed the bottom line and piety indeed comes from doing the best thing, not just the lawful thing.
Also as person, the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had never took revenge from anyone who violated his rights. He would always forgive. He would only took revenge when the rights of Allah would be violated. This something that we Muslims need to take lesson from.
Salam
This will be my last comment on this topic/question.
If a man stays patient for an extra week or two, because the woman has requested this that's awesome, he will be rewarded.
But I know myself and how I have gone through life. If I make a move that first night and I am turned away, I probably won't have the courage to make a move again. Do you know I have not spoken to my wife yet, even when her mother calls my parents take the call because I start shaking.
If I do pull out the courage to make a move and I am turned away, I don't think I will have the courage, not for weeks and months and part of me will feel so much shame, that I will make a move again.
Everyone goes on like it's difficult for women, how about the men, if a man has been civil and decent all his life, is it any easier for him? A friend of mine told me, and simply to advise me, he was sweating so badly that he had to shower twice in 30 mins, only when he was alone in the shower did his heart rate go down. He said all those months of thinking and worrying, it was in fact my wife who made the move.
It's very easy to sit here and judge others without an ounce of knowledge of who they are or what they know, but if you were to know me in the real world nothing of these ridiculous posts would be posted.
You may want to tell your wife all this in advance.
Have you considered what you would do if you yourself can't perform? Do you expect your wife to leave you within 2 weeks? (I know most women would not do that, even though they have similar marital rights to intimacy in Islam as men). Or will you jump on that plan back to Birmingham because you will be unable to fulfill your Islamic duties as a husband? Perhaps, she may want a divorce in that scenario -- even after spending all that money on a wedding.
nobody is answering my question really sad
To the original questioner,
Its not necessary to do it on first night. But both husband and wife should be considerate of each other's feelings. If husband gets turned away then he should be understanding that wife may not be ready. But wife should also think that her husband might take this as she rejecting him.
Similar goes if the husband wants to wait. It does not mean rejection, it might mean that husband is not ready. Its easier said than done but my 2 cents.
regards
I hope you leave here unscathed-apologies if I was harsh, and May Allah be pleased with you for taking that step to get married and accomplishing 50% of your deen, hopefully there are many hidden blessings in it for you both.Good luck.
Jazak Allah for helping the sister. This post is closed now for further comments. I appreciate all the responses and would like to request all brothers and sisters to help others who are in dire need of their precious advice.
Wasalam,
Muhammad1982.
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com