Islamic marriage advice and family advice

My brother’s marriage was never consummated and is now falling apart

Assalamu ilaikum Everyone,

leaves floating

I hope you all are doing well iA. I am writing this question because I would very much appreciate if someone can help my family during a very difficult situation for us. I will provide you all with a summary  of all that has happened up to this point. I am the sister of the groom. I apologize that the summary is long but I feel like I have to tell the entire story in order to get the best possible advice.

My brother got married to his cousin (my mom's sister's daughter) last summer in Pakistan.  Her name is Amina.  Amina is born and raised in Pakistan, whereas my brother is born and raised in America.  Sulayman hadn't seen Amina in 6 years but after talking with her on the phone for a few months, he was confident in his decision. My family thought it would be a good idea because she is family, she has family values, etc. In addition, to those reasons. My mom was very happy to have this marriage happen because she thought it would help her sister a lot. My mother's sister whose name is Sara is not very financially well off and her daughter, Amina, is 30 years old and has been having trouble getting married as she gets no proposals.

So my family happily went to Pakistan and spent a lot of money on the wedding. We did not ask (or expect) to receive anything from them. Instead my mom, spent her time trying to make Amina and her mom happy by getting her a designer wedding dress, spending money on all the wedding details, giving Amina her only golden bangle, etc.  However, while we were there they showed no appreciation for anything. Not even one thank you or positive comments. When we went to her house, Aisha cried to my mom and asked her if my brother was getting married to her by force. My mother and I reassured her that this marriage was happening out of choice and that we were very excited to have her become a part of my family.

Once my brother and Amina got married, they got to spend four days together. During those four days, Amina let some of our cousins know that the marriage was not consummated during the wedding night.  My father had told my brother to not engage in sexual activity, since he was scared that Amina may become pregnant (there is even a chance with birth control) and we would not know how long the visa process would take for her to come to America. My brother was deeply embarrassed when he found out that everyone in the family somehow ended up knowing about what happened during the wedding night.  But my brother decided to ignore it, because he did not want to cause any disputes when they had only four days together.

So my brother and my family come back to America after the wedding. The few times they had talked afterwards were  negative. Amina complained that everyone in the family was telling her to change as in learn English, learn how to use the computer, etc. She was angry that noone was telling my brother to change. My brother explained to her that the only reason people are telling you to change is because you are the one moving to America. He told them to ignore their negative comments but to try her best in learning English, the computer ,etc.

I will admit, that after my brother came back. He didn't do as good of a job calling her all the time. He usually talked to her once every 2 weeks to once a month. So Amina's mom called my mother and told her to tell my brother to call more. So my brother started to call her more. Then Amina's mom called and said to my mom that my brother needs to be more "romantic" since they are newly weds. My mother explained to her sister that my brother is not the romantic type and it is difficult for him to say romantic things in the Urdu language, since it is not his native tongue and because they have not seen each other in 6 years. Also, she explained that once they lived together they would have many Romantic moments.

Then a few months went by with everything being fine with Amina and my brother. Then one day, Amina's mom calls my mom. She yells and screams at my mom and says a lot of hurtful things. She says that my mom and my brother have made their daughter psycho, and that she is glad that Amina hasn't gone to America yet since she can't trust us in taking care of her. She pokes fun at my brother's urdu speaking skills, says that I never accepted Amina into  the family, etc. She says a lot of other mean and inappropriate things at the time, which are difficult to explain in English.

My family was very concerned and my mom was crying. They decided that they would call Amina's mom the next day and try to sort everything out. The next day came, and my mother's other sisters called and started yelling at my mom. They blamed my mom and brother for everything and kept citing the fact that the marriage was not consummated as a key reason for why the marriage was not successful. Then that evening my brother calls Amina and her mom and asks them what their problem is. My mother's sister starts yelling again. My brother asks Amina why she is angry. She says she is not angry over anything. My brother then asks her why her mother is angry and she says that its just the way her mom feels about things.

Months have gone on, with my side trying to reconcile things with their side. My brother is very hurt as to why she told her mother /family personal things about their relationship. In addition, my family is angry at Amina's family for involving the other sisters. However, Amina's family denies that they ever told anyone anything.  Amina has made some exaggerations to the other family members about things my brother did. For example, the four days they spent together, Amina had forgot to bring a lot of things with her (toothbrush! night clothes, etc). My brother said "You have a big suitcase, where's all your stuff". She turned this statement into my brother taunting her for not bringing enough dowry to him! She also lies a lot. For example, my mother's aunt in Pakistan called my mom to ask her what was the matter with Amina's family and our family. My mother's aunt said Amina and her mom came over the other day and told everything to her. My brother calls Amina and asks her why she had to go tell this to my mother's aunt, and Amina says she never told anyone anything.

My brother keeps asking her to tell her what her problems are with him, so that they can resolve it. Sometimes she will say she has no problems, and other times she will mention tiny things that my brother did to her during those 4 days. My brother believes that if she had a problem with him she should have told him earlier on.  My brother is also upset because they have been married for a year (were engaged for a year as well) and she has not made any efforts to learn English or the computer. My brother has made it clear numerous times, that since he is a native speaker in English that she will have to make some effort in learning the language.He is also hurt that the four days they spent together, she just has complaints about him. He feels like he can't trust her because of all the lies and exaggerations.  However, the biggest complaint he has had has been the way Amina's mom has treated my sister (all in all, she has spoke to my mom rudely three times on the phone). And honestly, I can't stress enough how rude these conversations were.

So my brother being fed up, called Amina one day and told her that he would appreciate it if Amina's mom would apologize, that she would make efforts to learn English, and the computer. Also, that Amina would apologize to him for embarrassing him in the family and for complaining about every little thing. In response Amina said that "there is no possible way my mom can apologize", and made excuses about learning English and the computer. And she said that I can't apologize to you because I didn't do anything wrong. If I did do something wrong, you also probably did something wrong.

My brother being very upset told her that he was angry and to call him back later...she now hasn't called in 4 weeks. My brother is ready to end this marriage because he feels like despite all his efforts she has not taken him seriously. My parents even wrote their family a letter about how we feel. Their parents have not once addressed the issues.  They say that learning English, learning the computer, and apologizing are "conditions" that have been forcefully put on Amina. English and learning computer are for her betterment. Without these things, it will be difficult for her to survive in America. Apologizing is just so that my family can move past it and move forward. All my parents and brother ask for is some constructive talk about how to fix this marriage. But they will not bulge on anything. Instead, they have told the whole family that my brother has ended this marriage even though he hasn't yet.

My mothers entire side is sympathetic to Amina's mom because she is the oldest sister and because they are financially unstable.  They all agree that Amina's mom is rude and that Amina is stubborn. But they tell my brother and mom to give Amina a chance. My brother and mom don't want to take the risk and feel like its hard to move on when their is no remorse of any kind from Amina's family or any kind of trust in the relationship. This has caused my mother and brother to go into deep depression and I am worried for them.

What should we do?  I know this is a very long long post. But I would very much appreciate it, if someone could could provide some advice. I pray that Allah blesses your time and effort in reading and replying to the post.

- colorblind


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36 Responses »

  1. Salamu Aleikum,

    To be frank, when I first read your post, I thought: oh my god, what a kindergarten. Everybody

    interferes into the private affair of the other person and from the beginning, all of you including

    your brother were lacking a proper understanding of the religious principle of marriage. We don't

    just get married on the phone, or to a person we have hardly met. We don't get married to get

    a green card; and intimacy in Islam is totally private, we're not supposed to share intimate

    issues with anyone. The prophet condemned this type of behaviour. It wasn't your father's right

    to tell your brother to sleep with his wife or not; the issue of unwanted pregnany or birth control,

    etc. is only the affair of the married couple. It's not of your family's business. I don't want to imply

    that the behaviour of Amina's family was better, it was as bad as yours. The whole family structure

    has to be changed. When two people get married, parents are only chaperones and the groom has to

    take care of his bride and spend time with her. This whole extended family issue is destructive for

    the society, I don't care about culture. It is destructive. It is bad for all of you. There is a lack of boundaries

    which leads to a disrespect of all of you. You are constantly disrespecting each other, and call it either

    family, or confuse it with salatul rahem or call it "caring about each other".

    My advice: Let your brother and Amina solve this issue between themselves, leave this poor guy alone.

    This whole marriage was arranged, there was too much interference at the beginning. Don't ask him

    about his conversations, don't drag other people into this. Leave them alone and sort thing out on their

    own. No interference. It is nice to be there for each other, but only when someone asks you for advice

    without being intrusive. This is a hotchpotch, nobody really listens to the other person or respects him.

    I have a lot of respect for the prophetic value of preserving family ties. I don't have any respect for people

    who hurt each other, interfere into the lives of each other and arrange the marriages of their children

    without giving them the right to seek independence. Dear Sister, let your brother take his own steps

    from now on. Either they get on well or not. If they do, they should learn that they must protect their

    privacy, which will be difficult in your family. If they don't get on well, then a divorce is inevitable.

    This marriage was based on family interference from the beginning and they have to live with each other,

    not the families. If it doesn't work, then it is due to a lack of boundaries and respect for the others.

    Whatever the result of this chaos will be, it should be decided by the couple alone, not the families.

    Please don't scream at each other or discuss with each other, disappear from the screen and let the couple

    decide. If your father was even able to tell his son not to sleep with his wife, then this, I'm sorry, goes too far

    and violates the rights of your brother and his wife, who have a right of privacy and to enjoy themselves

    with each other.

    insha Allah this will be solved soon and everybody will learn a lesson from that.

    Jazakallah

  2. Ahh, the ungrateful third world bride strikes again. Of course she would have family values, as people in poorer countries can't afford the cost of living, two or three families sometimes live together. This would of course mean that she should never want better for herself, even if her husband can afford it, she would just join the inlaws family and become part of the furniture. One would have though that she would be so grateful to be going to Amrika that she would overlook the fact that you guys have only given her material things but he husband isn't that interested in her.

    I'm not surprised she's a bit confused as to why your brother married her, after all she clearly want' good enough, she has to learn computers and english, other wise she cannot be a good wife. He didn't want her company when he was around (because his dad told him to!??) and now he doesn't bother to phone.

    A friend of mine went back home to get married, after that they were living in different countries for a year, and he used to phone her everyday.

    I wonder, she is thirty, so your brother must be older. Did he marry her just to get your parents off his back, is he interested somewhere else?

    Also, while I don't condone the way the bride has gone about the issue, but maybe she told her family about the non consummation of the marriage because she thought it was a signal of her husbands lack of interest in the marriage and if he should change his mind about her after going back to america she will be able to move on with her life and not be labelled as used goods.

    I completely agree with Jannah's advice. The whole family needs to butt out and let these two sort out their mess.

  3. assalam alaikum dear sis
    i completely agree with jannah as well as laali s advice iam also married and i dnt think that ur father should interfere in these personal issues between ur bro n sister in law and according to me a marraige shuld have trust n understanding only living with a person for four days nobody can decide or judge what kind of a person he/she is it takes years together to have happy married life so i think u both families should hav sabr instead of speaking on phone u bring ur sister in law home coz she has to live with ur brother n not her family ultimately its both of thems life they can decide better than the third party on the other hand revealing once secrets is also wrong on ur sister in law's side so i think both sides are wrong . both the families have to sit and sort out the problem i think first u have to get ur sis in law home coz understanding and trust is the foundation of every marraige

  4. I totally agree with the above post but telling other people about private stuff between husband and wife is unacceptable there is something called concealing a wife and husbands issues should stay between the two and personal matters should be resolved around the two and no one else. I personally think something here was never meant to be from day one and not just that maybe the brain didn’t click. Maybe if you let the 2 discuss their differences and matter inshallah it is a decision up to them to work it out, although I personally feel the lack is of not getting to know each other might have been the root of the problem from day one. I pray things do work out for your brother and sister in law.

  5. Your brother who was born and raised in the America wanted to marry someone who he can change to be like him. Your brother hasn't seen your cousin for 6 years, and he has fallen in love with her on the phone? He was engaged to her for a year and he didn't sense any weirdness behavior from her? Your brother accepted to go through it all, so I say let him deal with it.

    I have read in previous articles on this website, where a brother married a girl living in Pakistan, and wants to divorce her because there's no compatibility. Why do these men go back home to marry a girl who doesn't share the similar lifestyle, personality, and education. What makes them attracted to the girls?

    • They go back home to marry because in most cases the families of the girls are less fussy (note that I said in most cases, not all cases), the girls there are raised to put their families before their careers and all in all the men feel less intimidated and more comfortable around them.

      I am Pakistani, I asked for my mum to pick a girl from back home, I have 5 brothers, all of them will marry to girls from Pakistan even though we've spent our entire lives in the UK. All of my friends, they've married girls from Pakistan/India/Bangladesh. Compatibilty isn't an issue, you can speak Urdu/Punjabi, and they can easily learn English. The culture isn't as different as people make out, particularly if the families in the UK are reserved. We eat the same style of food, where often the similar type of clothing. Interests for men and women will always be different, often men with sports and politics and women with gossip and tv show (generalising but it's true).

      We men don't want to marry westernised girls, we like our girls to be raised with the family and husband at the top of their mind, not a career. The girls in the west and their families based on my own experiences and from word of mouth, are far more picky and nosey than families back home. I had one proposal come for my younger brother a while ago, in the second meeting the family started asking questions about why such and such a member of the family doesn't visit such and such a member of the family. They almost ask for a CV to be handed out (which is fine on their part but not for us, they should mind their own damn business), whereas families from back home, judge the parents and most importantly the boy, they don't ask about family feuds. The families back home in Pakistan tend to not care about a boy's income provided he earns a decent living.

      No man or his family want to be interogated to that extent, it just so happens that the majoruty of marriages to girls from Pakistan are long and successful, the girls just have a different upbringing to the Pakistani girls here.

      I'm so glad I don't have any sisters, least we don't have to worry about finding her a husband.

      • John Fisher,

        Another view: 'Some' of the men/boys from the Indian subcontinent raised in the UK are actually intimidated by women who have an opinion and who do not need to live as 'kept' women. Note, not all men/boys, just some.

        SisterZ
        IslamicAnswers.com Editor

        • Of course, I wouldn't argue against this statement. However Islam states clearly that Allah has made it so that men are the guardians and providers and the ultimate responsibility of a family and household lies with them, hence we will always opt for the easier option when it comes to applying this and usually the easier option is usually the ones from back home.

          I know it will offend many people, but that is the fact, it is a fact that the many men do go back home to marry as it's more conveniant and less hassle and it keeps family ties alive.

          • Of course the main role of the man is to be a breadwinner and the main role of the woman is to be a home-maker. But this does not mean that a woman has no place in the work force or in education.

            For me, I would like my husband to want me, not 'just' because I can cook tasty food, clean like super woman and pop out babies every other year, but also because he believes that we can do dawah together, learn Islam together and become nearer to Allah together. If this means that after giving my husband and children the love and support they deserve from me as a wife and mother, I have to go out to attend Islamic conferences, lectures, classes, and involve myself in society to spread our deen - then I want a man who will support me in this.

            Of course - our ideas on this subject differ, thats ok.

            SisterZ
            IslamicAnswers.com Editor

          • Your comment is fair however what is wrong with a woman wanting a career? A western woman can be raised to value family and culture as well as have a steady career. I’m sorry but your comment came across stupid. Our prophets wife was a businesswoman for god sake. I think it’s time for people like you to open your mind a bit and let a woman decide if she wants to have a career after she’s married or not.

          • Salam Sonia,

            What's wrong with the career woman not getting married? Men want what they want in marriage and women want what they want. If they can't get it why not remain unmarried?

            For guys it isn't that they are intimidated by women with careers it just what they offer in a marriage. For a guy, he already has a job and is required to be the primary bread winner. What is he going to gain from his wife having a job? There is no rule that women have to provide money to their husbands. So the money she earns she doesn't have to give to her husband. Now while she is earning she's not providing services that he did care for:

            1) Providing loving care for the kids.
            2) Home cooked meals.
            3) Errands he would normally have to do.

            Now let's say she pays for a babysitter or a nanny and she gets food delivered. Is that better for the guy? Would a guy want his kids raised by someone that is less loving than their mother and does he prefer outside food over home cooked meals? And then what about job priority? If he loses his job is she willing to quit hers to relocate to where ever he has a job? What about weathering the lows in a relationship? The career woman has no dependency on the guy. She can just get up and leave with the kids whenever she wants because she can earn herself. Any argument she doesn't like or if she's getting a better deal with some other guy it's easier for her to leave the family with a job than without one. So from a guy's perspective he gets more services through a wife that's a homemaker than through one that is a career woman. He gets more stability in the marriage in weathering the tough times.

            Now let's look at it from the girl's perspective. As a career woman she gets to earn and keep what she earns and the guy has to support her by law. So double money then, and if things don't go her way she can quit anytime. It's like doubling your pay just by getting married and you can quit whenever you want over the slightest issue. Why wouldn't a girl want to be a career woman? It's win-win for her.

            Now both of these men and women come to the market to get married. The women with careers are more often not getting married than the homemakers. This is because they had to wait for their career to start before looking and now they're older. Also, guys see the disadvantages to them and just go for a homemaker. The guys that don't are looking for a girl that earns more than they do. Such guys aren't attractive to the women with higher careers. The end result is a bunch of career women just support themselves and stay single.

            The example you point out is a wealthy woman marrying a poorer guy. Now that is always an option for any girl. Many guys that are dirt poor will happy take a doctor wife and live a better life. The problem is that these doctor wives would prefer a doctor and those guys are marrying young homemakers, the best they can get.

      • Lets hope when you have a wife you know how to TREAT her and KEEP her, not have her caged in the house and letting power get to your HEAD as in controlling her.

        • Don't worry about me, I'll be fine. I care about being a good Muslim and you can't be a good Muslim unless you're a good son, husband and father. So don't worry about me I'll be fine, focus on yourself.

          Thanks.

      • I personally would not marry all boys in a family I believe in a mix family I hope you know how to keep a woman happy and satisfied.

        • Again with the "hope you know how to deal with a woman etc". I stated why men opt for girls from back home and that means I'll be a terrible husband? Jesus man grow up and just respond the comments made. I could quite easily say hurtful things like what you have to, won't get you or me anywhere.

          • Watch the language, bro. Let's not pick up the bad language habits of the kuffar. We should speak of our Prophets only with respect and in the proper context.

            Wael
            IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  6. Compatibility should be one biggest the factor in marriage, yes indeed. So what if you share the same food, language, and clothes. You didn't mention the wisdom in marriage. What's more important is that family back home don't ask any questions. Why do think they don't ask?? because they don't care who the guy is and what his past was as long as their daughter will be living in the west and she can raise her family status. Another thing, these days you can't really say that if the parents are good then their children are good. No way, I have seen in many cases where the parents are religious and good, where as their kids are living in the bad path. Men don't like how we women in the west have a voice to express our rights. So, most men (not all) go back home and marry a girl then mold her.

    • BluSistar,

      Why is a person born in the west not compatible with a person born in the east? They are more than compatible. Compability is more likely to take place if you're from the same country, but what if your parents have had a traditional upbringing? You'll want a wife who has a similar upbringing, doesn't happen much in the west anymore.

      Just as women are entitled to speak out and have opinions, men are too. If a man wants a wife who will be a homemaker, who are we to deny him that? Many women are happy that way as well, it's just less women here in the west are. Many Muslim women in the west want to work, quite within their right, but often men feel little when this happens, almost like they are not a man anymore.

      People are entitled to ask as many questions as they want, but ask too many questions and you start digging out information in every person. If a family wants to get their daughters out of Pakistan, they are well within their rights, a life in the west is likely to be financially more stable and healthier in quite a few ways.

      I know from experience, if a person's family don't speak to other members of the extended family it doesn't mean the groom to be will treat the wife badly or her fate will be similar, but people dig out so much information they find flaws in everyone.

      It's not just the west which allows women to express their rights, it's our faith which allows them to, but men are easily intimidated and this will always remain the case.

      Culture has given these gender associated roles, Muslim women in the west are gradually coming out of that.

      • Firstly I am not here to offend anyone or cause pain to anyone’s feelings if I do I apologise. Firstly why be in England if you choose to pick a Pakistani bride and you want to bring everything what PAKISTANI’S do that’s just every typical family wants, not every family is the same or think the same as you and you think it is easy and family completed in marriage sorry it don’t work like that everyone as different needs and requirements maybe before marriage these should be made clear before going ahead with the proposal.

        I know a decent family who have given both their sons and daughters equal rights and achieved education, degree’s and all have jobs none of them have done haraam before marriage all are very decent people we know them since I was in primary school. Even to this day I look up to them has my grandparents that I never had. One of the brothers I know married a Pakistani girl outside the family thinking it was the best thing as his parents and exactly replies of john fisher. Unfortunately for him it was the wrong decision as he too wanted someone who was not a gold digger or girls from the west, someone who had been brought up with family values, had respect for elders and tradition followed basically how to be in his family as his siblings as well. I am going to say much as I say tawbah and feel so sorry for the family and his parents, but the issue you got to look is, is this person who you marring will meet the same qualities/outlook life as you, are they going to be happy where ever you are, are they compatible, can you trust them, will they be happy to leave their family behind and adjust to a complete different country, will you be able to love them and support them in everyway so on. If you ask these questions to yourself then inshallah the marriage will work and you both will click. It is not about the westernised girls here or pakistani girls they are not any different, the girls back home I have seen are more rude, very stuck up, disrespectful they have no shame in covering themselves up, they act like white girls here, they have more channels to watch, and get up to so much that I could not do and thankfully I am where I am and had a very low life compared to them. I strongly feel Pakistani’s girls kismat is very LUCKY to have proposals from guys even if the men are divorcee’s they still get second chances in life marrying here or back home. GIRLS in west have more to lose than the guys where ever they are.

        It is not about being fussy, parents all around the world want there daughters to be happy ONLY MARRIED ONCE when there married not a DIVORCEE returned as it brings more shame of them. Its got nothing to do with being fussy being picky or being noisy back home are exactly the same even if your loaded with money they want you for BRITISH PASSPORT NATIONAILITY it is easy here to get handouts and the rest. If people here don’t want westernised girls its only because they know girls here are career minded and wont kiss there ass of there in laws because they are not weak or dependant on their in laws or parents/family. DON’T sit here and JUDGE westernised girls are career minded I know a lot of girls here who are masallah scarified their careers and who are kind hearted and have looked after their in laws as their own parents and have successful marriage’s with the support of their husbands that’s what you call KISMAT and have very strong family values, RESPECT and follow the tradition. Who’s to say marriage overboard is just as successful many people have married overboard for the EASY or THE WRONG REASONS and have ended up depressed, hurt and brought shame on the parents which ever way you look at it, its about FAITH, KISMAT and whatever ALLAH as written for you. I pray for all out there get married for the right reasons not for the sake of it or thinking it through.

        As for this reply colorblind it was similar to this person we know but personal stuff should have been hidden between the two mybe then it would have not been stirred and also the wife should not have stayed behind for 6years. I personally think let the 2 sort it out and inshallah it will be resolved.

        • Salaam Sister Amina,

          Your reply seems to be one of anger, well at least I get this impression and you've expressed your views which you are entitled to, but the manner in which you have expressed them and the way you have typed about certain aspects of the different cultures and backgrounds and more importantly married life, well it's precisely the reason why many British born Asian men do not want to get married to girls from the west.

          The majority of people in this world, over 95% of them are good people, they may not be good Muslims, Christians etc, but as people they tend to lead a good life and don't have much evil in them. So when I state the men in the west want to marry girls from back home, it's not to say they are avoiding something bad or evil, they are going to something which they want, something easier for them to live a life with.

          Women are entitled to work, there is absolutely no doubt about this, most women can be trusted to not do anything shameful and often if they are emotionally satisfied by their husband they will want to share what they earn with him, again there is nothing wrong in this. However men are still stuck with the view that they should earn and the woman should be at home, this is the way they have been raised and nothing can change this view, it's one of the main reasons why they choose to marry to girls back home.

          The truth is most men don't want to argue or fight with their wives, they are happy to lead a quiet and peaceful life, so they look to find a partner who'll allow them to lead a life of peace and it's been imprinted into us by our family and friends that the girls from home will give us that, in most cases there's not much difference between people from the west and east now anyways.

          I am not saying it's right or wrong, but what I am saying is that we need to understand when these men choose to marry, they can choose whoever they want for whatever reason they want provided it's Islamically ok.

          I cannot speak about other cases, only those which I have experienced myself and all of my friends and cousins here in the UK who have married Pakistani girls from Pakistan are extremely happy they enjoy married life and urge me to get married as soon as I can, which I will. All of them stated that they have no regrets marrying a girl from Pakistan and if they had the choice would never change how it is.

          Then comes the issue of Girls in the west and it's fair to say that more and more of them want to work after marriage, but there aren't enough families and men who want that, hence more and more women are going further in life without meaningful proposals.

          I just think people need to accept that men will continue for a while at least, to opt for girls from back home. It's the 3rd and 4th generations who will probably start marrying to others in the west, 1st and 2nd generation Muslims like myself will opt to do what I've mentioned above.

          The other point you make about girls from back home being shameless and indecent, yes more and more of them are, but there are plenty here in the west like that too. It's a case of finding one of the many decent men/women that do exist and avoiding the bad ones.

  7. John Fisher:

    You are my hero 😀

  8. Assalam O Alaikum sister Colour blind!

    I can understand what both families are going through. There are things I still find hard to understand like if both families were this close then why couldn't see obvious things like gossiping and blame game thing before marriage in that family when they were your close relatives. Why didn't your brother and sister-in-law didn't discuss different things to see if they were compatible, why couldn't they see that they are not meant to be together. I am against culture as Islam strictly prohibits this but, honestly when I see these things then I always advise people to not to get married out of their culture, or society where they grew-up. Your brother can't speak Urdu properly, she can't read, write or speak English or doesn't know how to operate computer, then why did they decide to get married in the first place, if this condition of learning English and Computer were in place before then surely things would have been different. As family of the bride and bride herself would have taken it seriously as they would very much want to see their daughter getting married sooner than later.
    Sure, bride and her family were wrong in telling whole family about this "marriage consumption" thing but there were ways your brother could keep both sides happy (don't want to go in detail here). If bride is 30 then I assume your brother is older than her, as in most cases but, he still takes dictation from his parents how to live his life after marriage. No one should be allowed to interfere in marriage between husband and wife, what they should do, what shouldn't and when or why etc etc. Sorry, I don't mean any offence but your brother doesn't seem like a grown-up man who should be married. No wonder, a lot of sisters are complaining that a lot of men are not men but boys. On the other hand sisters are confused between boys and men too lol.
    Solution to this problem is that, your brother should go there and speak to herself in person, take her into confidence and discuss these matter. Ideally, this should all take place without the slightest of interference of parents or other family members from both sides. Let them both settle down their differences through talking and should try to clear any kind of doubts they have about their marriage or about each other's intentions.
    Secondly sister, try to take their family and other close relatives in confidence and get everyone to set down together and clear all this issue. Sister, I will request one thing that being a girl you should be neutral as your sister-in-law is a women too and you have no idea how difficult it is to find a good brother these days for a daughter or sister. As you might have seen in these western societies, things are even worst in our Muslim countries, where women have not allowed to study, work etc. I am not blaming your family for anything but just think that they are living in a different country, your sister in law was brought up in a different environment to the one in which you brothers and sisters have grown-up. So, there will always be difference but Insha Allah if your family try to show compassion, sympathy, and treat them well, I hope Insha Allah, God Almighty will bring both families together especially your brother and sister-in-law.
    Sister, try to forgive their family and move on as Allah SWT will reward your family for this. Now, they are both married, let them both deal with their differences and settle them down.
    I pray to Allah Almighty to soften the hearts of family members from both sides and help you all to solve the issues within the marriage and general issues between the families peacefully. (amin)

  9. People of course can marry who they want, as long as its done islamically - if they feel strongly about marrying someone from back home - then its probably better they marry someone from there then marry a girl from uk and resent her for her western values. Its always good to know what u want an follow it - what concerns me is the n.o of brothers opting for this. If all bros go back home to marry. Whos gonna marry the sisters in the uk? I know many single sisters in west - some are not exactly young. So i hope this culture of marryin back home doesnt spread too much.

    @colorblind - sorry for the trouble you are going through. I think your family are far too involved so i echo what many have said here. Just make dua for the family troubles to be sorted, encourage everyone to keep out - and leave it to your bro and his wife to sort out.

  10. Salaams
    Sorry if my reply was seen to be anger towards you but you have hit the point nail on the head men opt for bride’s back home because its easy, quite and peaceful life and no one will ever know they used some poor girls heart. What I totally find that so unfair it is an easy way out to find a woman who will never voice her opinion let alone what you looking for in a partner as long as she does what she’s told that’s it. There are women who are decent in the west who are paying the price of certain people who have done haraam outside marriage and get labelled the same just because in the west never mind how pure there heart is, do you realise how unfair that is. Some of the points you have said are true and I don’t think they will ever change that’s why I think its control more than anything of certain ways our communities are. Women in today’s society are a challenge for men and we as Muslims need to change with the time but never forgot our roots,culture, values, izaat, our parents pride so on and mostly who we are and that’s why I personally think some people don’t opt for girls in the west because they are changing and becasue of that they think there the same as what everyone else and are a challenging the way it should be for equal rights. You are right everyone is entitled to marry someone of there choice and inshallah it will happen allah will always be in our hearts w/sallams.

    • I'll pick up on one point you made about women challenging men. Women need not challenge men, they need to progress through life, side by side with the man they are married with and he with her. If that happens, all parties should theoritically be happy.

      • Unfortunately this subject is one that will divide ppl. All i can say is its important not to generalise about ppl. My relatives in pakistan are career minded with degrees, holding off having kids in favour of work. My sisters who are born n bred in the uk are stay at home mums teachin their kids everythin. They are married to ppl from pakistan whos familys in pak seem to think they live in a country lined with gold. So my poor sisters work hard and provide a living for these to live extravagant lives. Ridiculous. Pakistani girls are not as simple as they act, its not a case of wr u come from n yes they are desperate to get here, not always for the right reasons. Plenty of good girls in the uk who are lovely however we come across so much crap unfortunately we rely on ourselves to be strong. So i apologise if we r too strong minded for u ppl. Maybe we r capable of it all in moderation n ul never no.i no i can be a good mother inshaalah and also i am a professional.
        Do not pigeon hole ppl into caregories. Think b4 u judge. Ppl are judged on character and deen not wer they werbought up. Get ur heads outta culture n stik to ur religion. Two very strong woman i no- they are from pakistan and bangladesh and ther stubborness and anger have tore apart their families. John fisher i dont mean to offend, u hav a ryt to ur opinion. But dont be so sure coz u actually may experience exactly wat u thought you wouldnt with a pakistani woman. And remember one day u may hav a girl. It wouldnt be nice if ppl viewed her the way you are generalising us.

        • Sorry I meant to say the way you are generalising with us girls from the uk.

        • Omg - good point. I have an aunt from pakistan (she grew up there) - who is the most forward, charismatic, career driven, independant, funny woman I can think of! She is also MashaAllah extremely clever. She defys all stereotypes - your post really reminded me of her and that we shouldnt judge a book by its cover - or where its from jzk.

  11. Salaam My Sister,

    I am sorry for this mess of relationships that is happening around you.

    From what I have read in your post, it seems as though at some stage - someone got upset, and then instead of resolving the upset, everyone has become sensitive. Within their sensitivity, they are looking to assign blame, and also avoid responsibility which means that you are in all in a situation where no one is going to accept responsibility for any of the upset, and no one is going to stop being sensitive and defensive.

    The impact that this attitude has had on all of you is that you have all fallen into idle talk and gossip about each other and you have all developed a sense of "being right", so that no: no one can do right,and everyone is simultaneously offended by the other party, The way to recognise these things are to notice that within the family dialogue there is a great deal of "he said", "she said", "they said" and a lot of "that's because this", "that's because that". On the grand scheme of things, all of this talk is absolute nonsense and drama.

    The truth is, all this situation needs is for someone to humble themselves and take some responsibility - to behave with humility rather than pride and stand up and say: "you know what? This is my fault and I apologise - can we just drop it and start again?" The reason that this will be successful is because there has been one event that has sparked off this whole chain of events, and whether anyone will admit it or not - it is that one event that is driving everyone's attitudes. As soon as someone humbles themselves, and lowers themselves and says: "hey, I apologise for the miscommunication, but I sincerely have only honourable and good thoughts and good wishes for you all" - the mess will stop.

    Yes, everyone has done wrong in the situation. Yes, no one in your post has acted responsibly. Yes, we can point out maybe 20 or 30 "could have's", "should have's" and "would haves" - BUT, if you want the madness to stop, all you need is one person who will be humble enough to lower themselves, apologise and demonstrate nobility of character and excellence in faith. We all know the famous story of the Old Woman and the Prophet (pbuh) in which the woman went so far as throwing rubbish at him - and still he did not speak to her harshly. There is much to learn from this little story about character.

    My advice to you is to rise up morally, and be the best example of character you can be in the situation, and advise your family towards upright behaviour at all times (regardless of what the other family does) and you will notice that as soon as you all increase your levels of patience, behaviour and tongues: the other family will have no choice but to feel either ashamed of their behaviour or have their hearts softened by your outstanding goodness, and have their harsh words silenced by your obviously giant heart. If this way of being remains your focus - and you don't get swayed from this focus in spite of ample temptation to degenerate into name calling, gossip and anger (all sins by the way) then elhamdulilah! Your whole world will change! You will see it differently, experience it differently. It's called Taqwa and it is POWERFUL!

    Remember: it doesn't matter what other people say or do - the only way to inspire people is to maintain your personal level of morality and goodness at all times, and you will notice not only a massive impact in the way the people around you start to interact with you, but the way that you interact with others also.

    Seek peace always, be willing to apologise, be humble and be patient and always interact with the best side of people, not the worst side and seek always to draw out the best in them. Be an example in every situation and you will see a change. You will.

    Peace,

    Leyla
    Editor, Islamic Answers

  12. Salaam Everyone

    Just wanted to give you all an update and thank you all for the input. I just wanted to clear up somethings:

    1. My brother did not marry her because he thought he could "control" her. They had talked for one year about different topics and both were very happy with each other.

    2. My brother had independently made the decision to marry her. My parents did not force a "Pakistani" girl upon her.

    3. My brother had first spoken about his hesitation to consummate the marriage. He expressed worry about having a child while his wife was still in Pakistan. And then my father had said that it would be best if he was scared of this to just not let anything happen. My brother had talked to his wife during the wedding night and told he why he was not consummating the marriage and at that time she was fine.

    Unfortunately things have gotten worse. Other family members have involved themselves and caused more issues to brought up.

    My brother tried his best to save the marriage. He spoke with her independently a few times, written her a letter, etc. Apologized for any mistakes, but she was very stubborn about it.

    Not once, did she say she did not want a divorce and that she wanted to save the marriage.

    In the end, even though they are family. They are not good people. They have sued my family for $100,000 because they believed that we had caused them that many hardships. even other family members are commenting how it is ridiculous and that the law suit is being initiated to get my brothers money.

    Please keep us in your duas as we fight this case.

    Let this be a lesson to all. No family marriages. No backbiting. And marry only when you are 100% sure about a person and their family

  13. Why don't you guys pray salatul istikharah before marriage?

  14. I hope your brother gets divorced and lets your family get the brunt of the blame. You guys totally deserve it. Especially you, as the sister. Who are you (the sister) to know all these intimate details of who said what when and why between your brother and his wife? If you yourself have been so nosy, I can only imagine how bratty your parents have been. Who are you as the sister to determine what was given to the bride Aminah as a gift appropriate or not, what was spent on her appropriate or not, who is your father to tell his son to hav sex or not with his own wife, it seems to me your entire family wants control rather than acceptance of another human being. Poor bride! What a callous brother, he had the gumption to talk to the girl for months - MONTHS! - before marriage, but doesn't bother to call her for weeks on end after the nikah?! Is he a man or a mouse? Shame on him.

    As for learning English and computers etc, ask your mom how computer-literate she is and was when she got married, and how much English she speaks and spoke when she got married. Then judge others, and how much time they need to assimilate in a foreign culture. And why should she if she doesn't want to? That's her right as a human being to enjoy being whatever she is, an if sh experiences difficulties in life, she is the one who will have to personally deal with it much more than the rest of your family. Why can't families learn to BUTT OUT of each other's lives? So intrusive! How would you like it if your brother or father or mother dictated to you when to have sex with your husband, when to have kids, when to abort kids, when to eat, what to eat, what to wear, where to sleep, etc?! How would you like it if your husband's mother or sister constantly complained about how much the spent on you wedding and gifts and all that? Can you even put yourself in the bride's shoes?

    Can you speak fluent Urdu or would you be able to learn it within a few weeks or months if your husband had to live in Pakistan or Japanese if he had to work in Japan? Should he divorce you for not learning quickly or agreeing to learn Japanese?

    THINK! Use your brains people. Stop being Sheeple. Disgusting, and that too with an aging bride who you know will likely not be able to remarry again. Shame on you all. If this is what you do to cousins, I can only imagine your behavior with outsiders.

    As for the suitcase comment, I've been married 4 decades and if my husband told me such a comment even today, I would kick a fuss. Learn to watch your mouth before running off the track is important in marriage. Communication is everything.

  15. On top of which, you guys are clearly immigrants, so your brother cannot be a "native" English speaker, no matter what generation, since your family doesn't have an ounce of Caucasian blood in it. So why the big deal with English? Why can't he learn Urdu to speak with his own wife?

    As for the bride not bringing a toothbrush and night clothes with her on her wedding night - your brother couldn't provide her these inexpensive basics? Then why the Nikah in the first place? If he can't put up with her basic needs after Nikah, he definitely can't put up with anything else.
    Are you sure you guys are Muslim? FYI -Saying Salam and wearing hijab and looking all cutie and having a college degree and a salary isn't enough to be a Muslim.

    • Salam, this is an old story so the original poster won't respond so I figured I would. I think you're misunderstanding the suitcase issue. Amina showed up with a big suitcase but forgot to pack her toothbrush. The husband tried to make a joke about how the suitcase was big as if it had everything in it but lacked a small toothbrush. Amina interpreted this joke to mean that her side didn't provide enough dowry which was not what the husband meant at all. This was one point of conflict due to a misunderstanding.

      The husband does seem to know Urdu although may not be as good at it. They obviously had to speak to each other during their four days and since Amina doesn't know english the husband must know some Urdu. The husband's side would like Amina to learn English and Tech so that she can do basic functions to interact with society in America. Without English Amina cannot read signs on the street, ask for help at a store, answer calls and other basic things. Without learning how to use a computer it's not possible to communicate with her through e-mail or texting or for her to read many of the relevant websites that she would have to deal with in every day life such as garbage/recycling/yard waste days or nearby restaurants.

      Also both sides are muslim, they're just having a cultural issue where the elder sister would like respect, Amina feels being transparent isn't the best idea, and the posters family would like full transparency and understanding. The root causes seems to moving to America for this marriage, then cultural issues.

  16. As for western girls vs Pakistani girls, both are no good if they are disobedient to Allah SWT in their lifestyles and their parents on earth. You can see this clearly if you spend some time with them. Just ask their PARENTS to bring you something from another room or the car or help you do whatever on your fourth visit, and you will have a revelation. If the parents don't encourage decency and manners in their own homes, you can't trust their girls to do any good in yours.

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