Islamic marriage advice and family advice

Questions about Talion Law

Allah's Law

Salam aleykoum Sisters and Brothers,

I wanted to talk to you today about the Talion law and ask you for your opinions.

I will give you some context: When I was fasting during the last Ramadan, I was thinking a lot about one of my personal stories posted on Zawaj and I finally got interested in the Talion law inside the Torah and Quran.

Since I was a kid (when I wasn't muslim yet), I've thought that everyone has to pay everything they do (kind of like "karma") and thank God. The Quran and Torah confirmed my way of thinking. That "karma" name changed to the "Talion law" name, and I still do believe that it is a just and correct way to pay what we do to others. Now I firmly know that, if someone does something bad against someone else, (in an unjust way) that person have to pay for it or to be forgive by people who were hurt.

These are my questions, sisters and brothers give me your opinions on them and correct me with arguments if I am wrong:

1. If we do something bad to someone and ask for Allah's Forgiveness, can we be fully forgiven?

I do think that the answer is no.

God is the most merciful but also the most just.

I do think that if we do something bad to someone deliberately and ask for Allah's Forgiveness, we will not be fully (or not at all) forgiven until that the person against whom we did bad things forgives us or takes his "revenge".


SITUATION 1: A muslim man cheated on his wife, regretted what he did and ask for Allah's forgiveness BUT doesn't say it to his wife.

I do think that that man will really pay something in the present life and of course on the judgement day, BECAUSE he didn't ask for his wife's forgiveness. Even if it will break his marriage he have the duty to tell and ask forgiveness to his legal partner. It is his wife's right.

SITUATION 2:  Same situation as number 1, but the husband tells what he did to his wife and then she asks for divorce.

The husband assumed his mistake and paid for what he did, then God "can" forgive him for his deeds if he repent.

SITUATION 3: Same situation as number 2, but the husband's wife forgives him.

The husband took his responsibility and assumed his wife's judgment. Then God can forgive him if he repents.

2. I apply that kind of "point of view" about life on everything. Am I right?

Example: I was a good man before I got married, but then I started to drink alcohol, miss salat etc. My wife still loves me and asks me to stop drinking and to become a good muslim again. I am refusing it even though I know that it is not halal, and that my wife is suffering because of it.

SITUATION 1: My wife ask for divorce.

I lost her BECAUSE my bad deeds. I ask for Allah's forgiveness. He forgives me because I paid what I did.

SITUATION 2: My wife stays with me. I'm becoming worse day after day, and become not only a bad muslim but a man without honor, because I make my wife suffer because of my behavior. I'm asking for Allah's forgiveness. Allah's doesn't accept my repentance because I'm not assuming responsibility for my deeds to my wife.

SITUATION 3: I did ask to my wife to forgive me and I'm trying hard to change my behavior to become good. My wife forgives me and God can forgive me also.

What I'm trying to say is that: We will pay for every bad deed we have in our own future deeds if we don't repent for them (sincerely ask for forgiveness form God and the people we hurt, meaning not hide from the concerned people what we did), or pay for them and repent.

I will take myself as example (it is real situation): I committed Zina before one time. When I meet my future wife someday Inch'Allah, I will inform her that I did Zina before. If she refuse to marry me because of that, I assuming that it is because my past deeds. I have to pay for it.

I hope my post is clear. Please, I really want to know your opinions on this post. Of course Allah know better than us.

Thanks a lot,


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22 Responses »

    Rights in Islam are divided into two categories.
    One concerns divine rights (Huququllah) and the other, human rights (Huququl Ibad).

  2. Honestly, I really don't know. However I don't think that Allah sits around and creates tit for tat forgiveness scenarios. If I commit a sin and ask for Allah's forgiveness and am sincere in my repentance, why would Allah base HIS forgiveness upon me contingent on the forgiveness of another? Yes it is good to forgive another, but even when we cannot as humans, ALLAH has the power to do so, and HE needs not our permission. I think that learning to forgive others is a harder task than asking for repentance. Why? ALLAH is merciful and benevolent and forgiving. Forgiving another as a human, for doing a deep wrong to you requires of us to push aside human feelings and embrace the message of ALLAH's forgiveness. This is a really hard thing to do as a person, because unlike ALLAH we have the propensity to collect our hurt and hang onto it because it makes us feel.... Human? Alive? Justified? If ALLAH can let go of our sins, and even the prophet himself showed great patience when faced with adversity, then we shouldn't worry with such matters as who forgives whom first so long as we repent, do our best to walk along the right path and make things right when and if we can. IMO

    • assalamlaikum
      human rights (Huququl Ibad).
      This is the truth and Allah wont inyerfer in a mtter of the bnda who was affected due to someones hurting and that person who was affected has to forgive-

      and that is.....human rights (Huququl Ibad).

  3. I don't really know what the "Talion Law" means because I have never heard of it before but if you want my opinion about what you are talking about here it goes:

    To be honest, I think that when you do something wrong you should always first and foremost ask Allah for forgiveness. Since your sin is concealed and you are not required to let it out if it will damage important relations (such as the relations between spouses, family members, etc.). When it is time to ask someone for forgiveness and you feel it is necessary to do so and they accept your forgiveness (like as Brother Aliyousuff said about human rights) then all is well. But they are not required to accept your forgiveness and you have to in return either do something that negates the wrong you did ( for example if you backbite someone, you can say good things about them to the people you said those wrong things to) or just accept the fact that person is not going to forgive you and move on with your life after repenting.

    But in the end it is only up to Allah what will happen. Have some people hurt me in my life? Ofcourse. Do I forgive all of them? Not all yet. Forgiveness takes time and healing. For Allah He can forgive instantly because He is our Lord and He loves us unconditionally but human beings are the ones who feel the pain. Have I hurt others in my life also? I would be lying if I said I didn't. Did they all forgive me? Some probably did and others probably didn't. But am I really regretful of hurting them? Absolutely! Would I do anything to go back in time and not hurt them? In a blink of an eye I would. But could I do that? No I can't.

    We really don't know what will happen. Maybe the person who was wronged would get their "revenge" in a way where they won't have to hurt the person who hurt them in the first place. Maybe Allah will give them a reward that is so great that they will forget the pain that they felt.

    If the person who has hurt me deeply came infront of me and Allah asked me to choose between doing the same to him/her (giving them the same or greater pain) or getting Jannah for the patience I had during the time of pain I would automatically choose Jannah without question. And the person who hurt me who has seriously repented to Allah for doing something wrong to me, probably got a reward for the forgiveness he/she asked for after realizing the wrong that they did.

    Everyone at one point or another has hurt others and sometimes for some reason (maybe that person died, moved away, can't be contacted, etc.) they are not able to ask for forgiveness.

    To summarize my thoughts on this, I think that although it is good to think about these scenarios from time to time to understand our religion in different angles, I wouldn't dwell too much into it because ultimately it is Allah who makes all decisions based on customized circumstances. Not every case may be the same and Allah is able to do whatever He chooses and it may be different for everyone.

    May Allah give us all understanding of this beautiful religion and the understanding of this world as well as the next, Ameen.

    • Assalam alaikum,

      I agree with sister Pepper for the most part.

      All I will add is that in your scenarios, or in real life, we don't even know all the time when we hurt someone. So how can we ask them for forgiveness if we don't know that we hurt them? Surely, Allah, Who knows all has a solution to these "what if's" much beyond our understanding.

      I would say that part of being a good human is realizing we are flawed and can't be perfect. We see that Allah, the Almighty is one and only supreme perfect being--we do our best to worship Him, and Him alone, and we do our best to fulfill our responsibility towards our family, friends, neighbours.

      • Salam Sister Saba,

        I am sorry, but I have to disagree in this point:

        If we have wrongdid someone, then God as the Utterly Just will not interfer. It's a thing between the both who wronged and did get wronged.
        Therefore avoid it to do bad things on people and always go to Allah and ask him for forgiveness too. Allah will help you all....

        • I am not sure what you mean by you disagree with me. What I have said is that Allah has the solutions to the questions posed above. Allah knows best and he will be the judge--there is no way that we can ask forgiveness for everything we have done directly to the person when we don't even know/acknowledge our wrongdoings.

          Surely our wrongdoings will be great in number and it is indeed Allah who knows the best solution to matters that our human minds have little capacity to understand. Hope that clears up what I was trying to convey.

          • Salam Sister,

            sorry I didn't read the post fully. Sorry, this was not my intention.

            However you are right, that there will always be people, whiches right we have violated without knowledge. Therefore you must spent money in name of God and give the money to poor people (but secretly, because it would be Riya (showing off))

            With following intention:
            "Oh my Lord, this money is for the people I wrongdid in my past and I don't know, how much they were. Guide me and show me the people which I wronged and help me to give these people their right. You are truely my Lord and you always help me out."

            This will help you Insallah Sister Saba...

          • AsSalaamu Alaikum,

            I think Sister Saba is making sense of her points. Only Allah knows best and He will be the judge. And I think there should be difference between those who are really regretful and those who are the contrary. If they are truthful in their repentance, I don't see how Allah can't take all thier burdens to Himself. "Blessed is He in whose hand is the sovereignty, and Who has power over everything." (Quran 67: 1)

            As for taking good deeds of someone or absorbing someone's bad deeds, this will be the type of person who does good deeds but at the same time attack other peoples rights and never repented. But as for those who regreted and sincerely repented, until Allah loved them, no one can be able to deprive them from the mercy of Allah, if Allah wills mercy for them. Allah has encompassed everything in mercy and knowledge. "Those (Angels) who carry the Throne (of Allah), and those around it, glorify their Lord with praise, and believe in Him, and ask for forgiveness for those who believe: “Our Lord, You have encompassed everything in mercy and knowledge; so forgive those who repent and follow Your path, and protect them from the agony of the Blaze." (Quran 40: 7)

            On the day of Al-Qiyamah, the only reason why people may want to take good deeds of others who attacked them in Dunya, is that everyone wants something that may intercede them to enter Jannah. However, if Allah is settles them and they got interceded by the mercy of Allah, they will all forget anything that happened in Dunya. This is the Justice side of Allah, which is very perfect in His sight. "Is Allah not the Wisest of the wise?" (Quran 95: 8)

            However, this doesn't mean people should rely on the mercy of Allah, because that is not the only side of Allah. "Know that Allah is severe in retribution, and that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. The Messenger’s sole duty is to convey (the truth). Allah knows what you reveal and what you conceal."
            (Quran 5: 98-95)

            As for those who rely on the mercy of Allah and then do bad intentionally, they are the Munafiqun (hypocrites) who think they are decieving Allah, but Allah is the one deceiving them by depriving them from His mercy, on the day of Al-Qiyamah. "The hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but He is deceiving them (on the day of Al-Qiyamah). And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing off in front of people, and remembering Allah only a little." (Quran 4:142) "The hypocrites will be in the lowest level of the Fire, and you will find no helper for them." (Quran 4: 145)

            Allah knows best

        • AsSalamu Alaikum Noapologies,

          If Allah were to hold all of us for violating rights His creatures, not one of us (even you yourself) would be saved from the punishment of Allah. Have you not considered how many insects you have stepped or sat on knowingly or by ignorance???"...Were it not for Allah’s grace towards you, and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever. But Allah purifies whomever He wills. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” (Quran 24: 21)

          Now you Noapologies, go and spend money in the name of Allah, and give the money to poor people and say:

          "Oh my Lord, this money is for the insects I killed in my past and I don't know, how much they were. Guide me and show me the insects which I killed and help me to bring these insects back to life again. You are truely my Lord and you always help me out."

  4. Really good question.

    I hope 'Pepper' is right in what he/she says...
    I will do some of my own research into this..
    wouldn't want to die having something like that hanging over me..

  5. AsSalaamu Alaikum brother Silver99

    I hope that I understood you well Insha Allah.

    I remember your other post:

    I am not sure if you are talking about the sin you committed with the Japanese girl. You both were in the haram relationship, and then you realized it was not good for you as a Muslim, and then you left, right? And leaving her was the best thing to do to save your Deen, right? Now you feel guilty? You feel like something might happen to you in the future with your wife if this girl didn’t forgive you?

    If this is what you worry about, then rest assured that –Insha Allah- Allah has forgiven you for leaving what He has forbidden and turning to Him in repentance (Ameen!!!).

    There was nothing you could do other than explaining to the girl, why you are leaving her. Yes it’s true if you violate the rights of other people Allah will not forgive you until the people forgive you. However, in situations like your case, there is another side of Allah (His Mercy), where He is capable of taking the responsibility of that hurt to Himself. He can make it between Him and that person you hurt. He may replace that hurt with something good for that person, or even soften the person’s heart to forgive you eventually.

    So what is more important for you to do now is to, make sure that you have sincerely repented to Allah, and you have started worshiping Him regularly and following His rules. Just make sure that you won’t repeat that mistake or sin ever again in your entire life. And spend the rest of your life repenting to Allah for all your past sins, and remembering Him in your daily life activities.

    May Allah have mercy on you, Brother!

    You may want to read this

    Allah The Most Merciful says in the Holy Quran:

    7. Those (Angels) who carry the Throne (of Allah), and those around it, glorify their Lord with praise, and believe in Him, and ask for forgiveness for those who believe: “Our Lord, You have encompassed everything in mercy and knowledge; so forgive those who repent and follow Your path, and protect them from the agony of the Blaze.

    8. And admit them, Our Lord, into the Gardens of Eternity, which You have promised them, and the righteous among their parents, and their spouses, and their offspring. You are indeed the Almighty, the Most Wise.

    9. And shield them from the evil deeds. Whomever You shield from the evil deeds, on that Day, You have had mercy on him. That is the supreme achievement.” (Quran 40: 7-9)

    • I will take myself as example (it is real situation): I committed Zina before one time. When I meet my future wife someday Inch'Allah, I will inform her that I did Zina before. If she refuse to marry me because of that, I assuming that it is because my past deeds. I have to pay for it.

      Ok. It seems like you are not talking about the other girl, you are talking about your future wife. Though I don't think this would be a problem if you have changed and you trust in Allah. I think a woman in her nature (I might be wrong) could be more merciful in situations like this (unlike men), unless if you still have contact with the girl or something.

      So maybe you should be thinking of how to do things well to please your future wife, rather than hurting yourself by thinking of how she is going to reject you.

      Also do a lot of Zikr, read the Holy Quran or listen to it a lot ok

  6. Salam Silver99,

    I agree with you, you need to ask for yours patners forgiveness.

  7. Salam brothers and sisters,

    Thanks a lot for all of you anwers. It was really interesting to read it.
    We all know that Allah have the powr on everything and have no limit. He is forgiving to people who are sincere when they are repent.

    My next question to you is: Should we ask for the forgiveness from people we hurt to proof how much we are sincere to ourself and to Allah?

    • Selam Brother Silver99,

      Taillon Law is not the right word, it's called huquq IL ibad.

      If this sin is just a sin with you and Allah, then repent, but if this is sin wrongging someone else right, then yes you must ask them for forgiveness.

      Taillon law is the eye for eye law. Therefore you can get revenge in here or in hereafter if you want. Hereafter is better.

      Wrongging someone else right won't be forgiven till the one, which is wronged, doesn't forgive you for this.

      And this is fairness or you want people to talk behind your back, steal your money and the at the end REPENT.

  8. You seem like a person who won't be happy without apologizing, and I do not see any problem with that.

    However, if what you meant by "hurt' is a sin between you and Allah, it would be better to keep it between you and Allah. But if you really must talk about it, then it's ok to say that, you have done a mistake in the past but you have repented now, without going into details.

  9. Salaams,

    Talion Law was a concept traced back to the time of Babylon. It was implemented as a social construct. Although I can understand your attraction to the "justice and fairness" in it, I would remind all Muslims that we are to adhere to shariah when it comes to social mores and treatment to others. If Prophet Muhammad SAWS told us that following the Quran and his sunnah were enough to get us through life, then what previous law structure or set of guidelines do we need? As it is, shariah addresses and manages many social or interpersonal issues in much the same fashion as Talion law, but is superior to it because shariah is directly from Allah with no human influence. Not only that, but shariah provides guidance on spiritual matters and personal growth, which Talion law does not encompass.

    I think another important point to remember also is that you are working off your own concept of what it means to be "just". The situations you gave as examples seem to indicate that Allah's justice in handling a situation is predictable or 100% understandable. The truth is, Allah's justness, just like all His attributes, is more than we can comprehend. While He may act in a just way in one situation that we recognize and understand, He may also act in another way that we cannot comprehend in another situation, and yet He is equally just in it. For instance, if your wife decided not to forgive you, but Allah did forgive you, would that make Him unjust somehow? It shows how merciful He is, and there is a dimension of justice in every act of His mercy.

    Or consider that perhaps your wife might have forgive you, and chooses to stay with you and love you for the rest of her life. She may have forgiven you, but Allah may feel you still need to be punished for what she may have forgiven you for and do so in the next life. One of the aspects that Talion law negates is punishment in another realm other than this one. It requires all justice to be meted out in this life, because there is no concept of justice being meted out in the next. However as Muslims we do believe in the hereafter and any innocent person living in an oppressed country clings to hope that their situations will be justly managed in the next, and that their oppressors will be held to account in the next, because so many are dying at the hands of evil before seeing justice in this life.

    It is very clear that your heart wants things to be balanced and fair. That is not a bad quality. However at times in this life we have to expand our understanding of what can be reasonably expected in this life as far as justice, given the myriad situations where true shariah law is not being followed or enforced. We also have to broaden our understanding of mercy, because it goes hand in hand with justice. That's why, even though you may have committed adultery, may have not been forgiven for it by your wife, and may yet even be punished for it by Allah in the next life, you might still meet a lady who would not hold it against you and marry you in spite of it. The bottom line is, all aspects of our life are still under divine decree, and that is rarely predictable.

    -Amy Editor

  10. There's a difference of animals, which we don't see and kill for the sake of being save or for the sake of Allah.

    These animals won't come meet us in hereafter. And there is a difference between a regretful and not. But this doesn't remove the wrongdoing.

  11. Salam,

    Again, thanks a lot for your answers.
    I think that i have got a lot of informations from all of you. Thank you.

    @Amy; about the Shariah, i'am not really informed on it exept that there are rules that we have to follow in it.
    You wrote: "As it is, shariah addresses and manages many social or interpersonal issues in much the same fashion as Talion law, but is superior to it because shariah is directly from Allah with no human influence. " If i'am right, rules and senses of rules of shariah are directly extracted from Coran and sunnah by savants and consigned inside. So if i'm just, it is not directly from Allah; because of period and Human natures interpretations can be wrong.

    What i'm trying to say is that Coran and sunnah are veracious. But anything else can be wrong if normal humans (savants) did interpreted on it.
    Just to be sure that there are no missunderstanding; We need savants to understand The veracious Coran; however, savants are humans and can be wrong in there words even if they are trying to say good.

    (I don't have any opinion about shariah yet because my small knowledge but i saying that it if i'm right, it is not a book directly from Allah )

    My knowledges about shariah is not really big so if i'm wrong, please correct me.


    • Salaams,

      What I am understanding you to say is that while Quran and Hadith are reliable, you're not sure if the interpretation given of the two from scholars is reliable because they are human and may make an error in their understanding. That's always a possibility, but there are many factors to consider.

      For one, Islamic scholars go through a lot to reach their status of being able to give fatwas or teach on something. The rigors they face leave the best and brightest to the task. Not only that, but most reputable scholars have top knotch characters and are humble servants to Allah. This makes it less likely they will guide in error.

      But even if one does, there are still many that will balance it out. For a particular area of practice to be put to the larger Islamic community, there has to be consensus (ijma) by the majority of scholars. So if one scholar comes to a wrong conclusion, the rest of the scholars will share the correct conclusion and that's what the Muslims at large would follow. After all, Prophet Muhammad says that "my ummah will not agree upon error". The chances that the majority of scholars would ALL come to the wrong conclusion about something is pretty much nonexistent.

      Another thing to consider is that even if a scholar does make an unintentional mistake in how they understand something, it won't be held against them. A hadith states, “If the Hakim (ruler or judge) made his Ijtihad (opinion) or the extraction of the verdict from original sources of legislation and he reached the correct verdict he will get two rewards. And if he reached the wrong verdict he will only get one reward.” Not only that, but anyone who unknowingly follows a scholar who made an unintentional mistake will not be accountable for it, because accountability only applies when someone knows the truth of a matter.

      So you might now be wondering how to identify those "majority" scholars, or how to determine which scholar is least likely to interpret things in error. There are so many scholars these days with so many viewpoints, it may be hard to find out who is who. There is hadith that states "Allah's Apostle said, 'The best of my followers are those living in my generation (i.e. my contemporaries). and then those who will follow the latter" 'Imran added, "I do not remember whether he mentioned two or three generations after his generation, then the Prophet added, 'There will come after you, people who will bear witness without being asked to do so, and will be treacherous and untrustworthy, and they will vow and never fulfill their vows, and fatness will appear among them." This means that the first few hundred years after the time of Muhammad SAWS were times when scholars were learning correctly. After that is when corruption seeped in to Islam. So I would suggest to you to study the scholars who lived at the time of Muhammads life and the first few centuries after him, and follow them directly or follow scholars of this time who follow those early ones. Remember, every sound practice will be backed up by some ayat or hadith, which anyone can take the time to look into. Doing this type of intensive research is really the only way in these times to ensure one is being rightly guided.

      The truth is that Shariah is not some elite thing that is so cryptic you need someone to explain it all to you. When the Prophet SAWS told his ummah in his last sermon to "hold fast to the Quran and my example", he wasn't only telling that to the learned amongst them. He was telling everyone to do this. We can all go and learn for ourselves if we don't have someone to teach us, because most of the hadith and Quran have meanings which are pretty self apparent. For things that aren't readily understandable, those can be put aside until a proper teacher is obtained who can explain them.

      The bottom line is, it's much better to take chances trusting the understanding of a scholar who may be incorrect about something, than trust your own understand when you also may be incorrect about something. The reason is because the scholars will always have vastly more training and knowledge about Quran and Hadith than we will ever come up with on our own efforts. Besides this, Allah will hold you accountable for how you pursued knowledge and whether you ultimately made your own decisions about things or followed what is accepted as the practice of Islam. There really isn't much of an excuse in "well, I didn't practice the shariah because I wasn't sure I could trust who was teaching it to me". Learn it for yourself as best you can, and Allah promises to be merciful in all things.

      -Amy Editor

      • Salam Aleykoum

        Thanks Amy for your post. I do now understand much better what sharia is, and i will learn more about it.
        All i wanted to be sure was that sharia is not directly from Allah with no human influence. If there is even 0.000001% chances that it can happen a mistake on it, it cannot be directly from Allah. ( unlike the veracious Coran.

        Again thanks a lot.


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