Dating a Muslim man who got engaged and did not tell me.
Feeling deceived
Question:
I am a Catholic, and had been dating my Muslim Pakistani boyfriend for almost 2 years. Both of us are in our late 20's and live in the US. I would always make it clear to him, that our relationship was serious to me and that I expected marriage in the end.
We are both very religious. I loved him and felt like i had met my other half, and i did not have any objections raising our children muslim. I thought he was serious about the relationship, in that he spends time with me, my friends, my family. He was always very supportive of me. He never looked at other women. I spend lots of time with his friends, his siblings, but never his mom, or dad.
He would tell me that for him to bring me home, he had to be engaged to me, and I believed him. (Is this true?) He has a business in Pakistan, and in March 2009, he traveled over there, and got engaged. He came back to the US and never told me, and continued to be my boyfriend for 10 months knowing full well that he had an engagement party and everything to another girl. I accidentally read something, and found out what he did. I told him that I found out he was engaged, he convinced me that he was not, but then broke up with me a few days later. He kept denying that he was engaged until I called his mother who told me he was getting married in several months to that girl.
I am very hurt and confused. I loved him, and I don't understand how someone could waste two years of my life like this. He knew for 10 months he had no intention of marrying me, yet he played along. All of his siblings saw me with him, and knew we were going out. How could someone do this to anyone?
Should I tell the girl he is engaged to that she should be aware of what he did? She is only 18 years old. I feel like if she marries this guy her life will be ruined. My reasoning for this is that if he could keep such a secret from both of us, what is there to stop him from doing this again and hurting her, and at that point she will be married making it a harder situation.
I talked to him and he finally admitted to me he is engaged, (but he said he just found out) and he told me he is marrying the girl because his mother is sick and he has to marry her or his mother will get sicker. Which i don't even know if i should believe, because he has been lying to me all along.
Since I am not Muslim or Pakistani, I think I am very misinformed about stuff like this. Some of my friends are telling me it won't matter even if I tell the girl he is engaged to, because she is a girl, and she'll have to marry him anyway. Others are telling me that he won't do something like this to her, and he only did it to me because I am white- which hurts my heart terribly.
How can i get through this? I need to forgive him to move on but its very hard. I never thought he could betray me like this.
- DropsofGold (Mary)
Sister Noorah's Answer:
Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim - In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Dear DropsofGold,
I'm sorry you have gotten into this difficult situation. It is one that is unfortunately very common. A young man comes from his home country to study or work in the US. He finds himself tempted by the open society, and ends up dating a non-Muslim. Meanwhile, Mom and Dad back home have picked out a nice girl, often a cousin or other close relative, for him to marry. He doesn't really want to marry but bows to cultural pressure and gets engaged, buying time, then goes on with his life, leaving the engaged girl in limbo and keeping the arrangement secret from the American girlfriend. Sometimes he marries the American girlfriend, sometimes not, and in most cases there is some sort of confrontation after all the secrets are revealed due to some paper lying about, or an e-mail, text, or phone picture.
has happened to you is sad, and definitely not acceptable in the Muslim religion. In Islam, men and women are not allowed to date before marriage. They cannot touch, hold hands, kiss, and of course, sexual intercourse is totally not allowed. So he was weak in starting to date you because he was not supposed to do this.
The honorable thing for him to do would be to marry you, and then you would be permissible for each other. Due to his weakness, he has caused a painful situation for everyone concerned.
I don't know if he has honest intentions to marry the girl back home. He may have just engaged her to avoid family problems, or he may be trying to get her papers to come to the US or be expecting to return to Pakistan, leaving you behind. Either way, you are left swinging in the wind.
My honest advice to you would be to cut off all contact with this man. If you were Muslim, I would advise you that being in a relationship but not married is something that does not please God, and that you should ask God to forgive you and resolve to be a more modest person in the future. Coming from a Christian background myself, actually, I would advise the same to you knowing you are Catholic, for I am sure the Church teaches modesty and not fornication.
This man may be a perfectly nice guy, and he may even fulfill his basic duties to God by praying and fasting and such, but in the area of relations between men and women he has been weak and has committed many sins. Unless he comes clean right away, like now, and breaks off the engagement to this girl, marries you, and tells his parents, there is no future for you.
You have to give him this ultimatum and then be wiling to walk out the door if he does not have the courage to do the right thing. Everything thing happens for a reason, whether we perceive an incident to be good or bad. Perhaps by being involved with him, this is a way for you to become interested in Islam. I know you did not have a GOOD example in his behavior, but I would love for you to spend some time learning the REAL tenets of this wonderful faith. Since you said you would have been wiling to raise any children as Muslim, I know you have an open mind towards Islam. I would be most happy to correspond with you about Islam and will provide you with some links to information about Islam:
http://www.sultan.org/books/islam-in-focus.pdf
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_tui/
You are welcome to contact us here with any follow-up questions and let us know how you are doing.
Fi Aman Allah (I leave you in God's trust)
Noorah, Editor,
IslamicAnswers.com
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Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim - In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Hello. I'm sorry you have gotten into this difficult situation. It is one that is unfortunately very common. A young man comes from his home country to study or work in the US. He finds himself tempted by the open society, and ends up dating a non-Muslim. Meanwhile, Mom and Dad back home have picked out a nice girl, often a cousin or other close relative, for him to marry. He doesn't really want to marry but bows to cultural pressure and gets engaged, buying time, then goes on with his life, leaving the engaged girl in limbo and keeping the arrangement secret from the American girlfriend. Sometimes he marries the American girlfriend, sometimes not, and in most cases there is some sort of confrontation after all the secrets are revealed due to some paper lying about, or an e-mail, text, or phone picture.
What has happened to you is sad, and definitely not acceptable in the Muslim religion. In Islam, men and women are not allowed to date before marriage. They cannot touch, hold hands, kiss, and of course, sexual intercourse is totally not allowed. So he was weak in starting to date you because he was not supposed to do this. The honorable thing for him to do would be to marry you, and then you would be permissible for each other. Due to his weakness, he has caused a painful situation for everyone concerned. I don't know if he has honest intentions to marry the girl back home. He may have just engaged her to avoid family problems, or he may be trying to get her papers to come to the US or be expecting to return to Pakistan, leaving you behind. Either way, you are left swinging in the wind.
My honest advice to you would be to cut off all contact with this man. If you were Muslim, I would advise you that being in a relationship but not married is something that does not please God, and that you should ask God to forgive you and resolve to be a more modest person in the future. Coming from a Christian background myself, actually, I would advise the same to you knowing you are Catholic, for I am sure the Church teaches modesty and not fornication.
This man may be a perfectly nice guy, and he may even fulfill his basic duties to God by praying and fasting and such, but in the area of relations between men and women he has been weak and has committed many sins. Unless he comes clean right away, like now, and breaks off the engagement to this girl, marries you, and tells his parents, there is no future for you. You have to give him this ultimatum and then be wiling to walk out the door if he does not have the courage to do the right thing.
Everything thing happens for a reason, whether we perceive an incident to be good or bad. Perhaps by being involved with him, this is a way for you to become interested in Islam. I know you did not have a GOOD example in his behavior, but I would love for you to spend some time learning the REAL tenets of this wonderful faith. Since you said you would have been wiling to raise any children as Muslim, I know you have an open mind towards Islam. I would be most happy to correspond with you about Islam and will provide you with some links to information about Islam:
http://www.sultan.org/books/islam-in-focus.pdf
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_tui/
You are welcome to contact us here with any follow-up questions and let us know how you are doing.
Fi Aman Allah (I leave you in God's trust)
Noorah,
Editor, IslamicAnswers.com
Dear Sister Noorah,
I want to thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I have cut off all contact with my ex-boyfriend. I refuse to talk to anyone who has betrayed me like that, and i can not trust him in the future. I am still sad though because i feel like he wasted my time, and he does not even feel sorry for it.
-Mary
Hi Mary,
I am a Catholic girl in love with a Muslim man so I can understand how serious you must have been if you have considered raising your children as Muslims. Forgiveness is hard but I suggest you forgive him and carry on with life. There are many Muslim men who I know are in this situation, where because of the pressure of their families end up marrying someone they do not love. It is good that you are not staying in touch with him- it is not worth it. And pray for the girl who marries him. Mary, in the meantime, I will pray for you - that God/Allah touches your wounded heart and heals you.
Have a beautiful life ahead.
Liza
Hi Liza,
Thank you for your prayers. This whole situation was especially hard on me today for some reason, and i really appreciate it. I know how tough it is, and I hope the best for you and the one you love.
-Mary
Dont worry sister. You have move on and you will be happy. Dont feel sorry for your self for getting hurt, feel sorry for him for being capable of doing it.
Trust me these kind of men they will hurt themselves eventually when they see they have satisfy and made their families happy but not themselves. They will lose both sides eventually. he might not say, but all human beings do feel ashamed when hurting someone. so its good you cut all the contact, let him deal with his mess and your actions will remind him not all women take nonsense.
Sister, stay away from him. For one, he is engaged now, and belongs to another woman - and the rules of womanhood are that we dont go with men who are promised to other women and we dont ever reduce ourselves to "the other woman" status and in doing so also reduce a man's wife or fiance to "being cheated on" status. For two, emotional blackmail such as "my mum will get sick" etc to get you to comply is not playing fair - feeling sympathy is not a good reason to stay involved with an engaged man, so do not feel sorry for him. For three, a man who makes a promise, such as an engagement, and then does not fulfil that promise has no integrity and all of his words are disabled by his lack of allegiance to it - so dont trust them And four, if you go ahead in spite of all of this, not only will you share him for the rest of your life and suffer in that way - but you will also have done it intentionally to yourself and to this other woman.
A wise woman would step back and let him go.
Peace,
Leyla
I LOVED your last line, Sr. Leyla!
Hi Mary,
I just recently went through something very similar to your situation. I was dating a muslim man (I am Asian and not religious) but he was 11 years older than I was (him being 35). The entire 8 months we were dating, we never labeled our relationship because he told me he was "messed up" from his last fiancee. I was understanding and went along with it. Recently, I found out that four months into our relationship, he had started dating a Muslim woman and one month into meeting her, he proposed to her. The entire time, he never told me he had gotten engaged. Even when Ifound pictures that his niece had posted on the internet of their families celebrating the two of them (fat'ha), he denided it to the high heavens that he was engaged to her. He told me he had only met her twice and he didn't know who she was. Their families wanted them together but in the end, he couldn't marry someone he didn't know or love. I didn't believe him and decided to contact this woman and she told me that they had met before their families did and it was something mutual that they both wanted (to get married). She told me that even though he cheated on the both of us, she is still going to give him a second chance because she is a Muslim woman and if she walks away from the engagement, she will be shamed. I understand completely how you feel, Mary. The feeling of deceit and betrayal is a lot to handle. He also lied about many other things besides getting engaged which included the status of his employment (unemployed) and his living situation (lives with his mother but told me she was just visiting). I want to move on but it is hard without any closure. He refuses to take any responsibility for what he did and blamed his family, me and his fiancee for his cheating. I know he will never give me any clousre and it's something I will just have to eventually get over myself.
I see a lot of islam answers here.people u need to control ur men!!!!!!!!all the stories just prove that in ur religion man do whatever he want and women have no voice.and enouph with ur religion,if it was right muslim shold have a more propriate behaviour,not such a liers and cheaters!!!!!and u have the courage to ask us to get into islam!!!!!!!!thats a joke!!!!what for?to get marry a cheater?
Elena, the nature of this website is that people write to us when they have problems in their marriage or with their families. The millions of couples who have happy marriages do not write to us because they don't need our services. Most Muslims are faithful, good hearted people. My parents have been married for 50 years, faithfully. When I was married, I never cheated on my wife. So don't judge all Muslims by what you see here. The whole point of this website is to help people who have problems.
If you think that people in other religions (or people with no religion at all) don't have the same problems, you are foolish.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editors
This is not Islam Elena - these are problems that face the Muslims and it is due to culture. Islam gives us free choice to choose our spouse and free will. We are supposed to act within the boundaries of Islam. It is because so many of us don't that we fall into trouble. Think about it - some Muslims move from the East, to the West - its a big culture shock. Sex is promoted. You're made to feel your weird if you're not doing it. Mix that with free-mixing, half dressed girls and us not following our religion properly and you're in trouble. Team that up with strict, outdated parents who still follow the cultural (NOT islamic) mindset they picked up from their homeland then you've got a recipe for disaster.
These men (and women) feel they can't wait for various reasons, they get involved, parents put their foot down so they follow their parents wishes. None of this happens due to Islam - its the fault of culture and society. Please dont blame Islam - it has nothing to do with it. Open your mind a bit dear sis Elena
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor.
@Elena & Wael,
Well Wael, I certainly agree with what you have said in your post, but one also needs to consider what Elena's suggested. Perhaps, she is upset and her comment is a vent to a bad experience, and hence the aggression, but she's not completely wrong.
And no, I am not suggesting this is only with MUSLIMS, the problem we're discussing in this thread is universal and can be identified, with just about any bunch of people, irrespective of their faith, nationality, gender, and whatsoever parameters that can be applied.
The problem, that Elena's highlighted here becomes significant because, if you notice the forum, the ratio (almost 9:1) of the complaints it has received with regards to betrayal, deceit, infidelity, etc is more by women(both Muslim & NOn Muslim) who have suffered at the hands of Muslim men they believed in, than Muslim Men, who suffered at the hands of women. Also, this is not a sweeping statement or generalisation, but this is indeed something serious, since we have SIMILAR stories of abuse pouring from all over the world!
Women, in most cases have been at the receiving end, whether she's the "EX" or the Wife!!!
Worst is, there's a STANDARD PATTERN to this.
In case of non-muslims or women of foreign origin,
1. these men form a relationship knowing fully well (in most cases) that this is not permissible under his religion, that this has no future since his folks would never allow it, and yet they ignore what's "Right" for them, and involve a partner to an extent to insist on physical intimacy.
2. Then it goes on as long as these men have no other obligations to follow and everything seems hunky dory.
3. But one fine day he leaves for his native country, to either vanish completely in thin air leaving the woman completely helpless and hopeless, to get married in the native country, behind the EX's back. If he's left the foreign country for good, then he isn't bothered, for he's sorted out for life and the EX can do nothing about it!!!
If he's to come back, he acts as if everything's perfect and goes about everything, without letting the woman he claims to be in love with or the wife back home, know of each other's existence!
In case of Muslims or women from same background, stage 1 & 2 remains the same, but they aren't spared either. For, these women (once the men are done with them) eventually are called bad names, are insulted and are made to feel guilty and “characterless“, for doing something that ISLAM doesn't punish (Zina, is the term, right?), even while having complete knowledge of it (As if the men, was sleeping through everything!!!). Perhaps, "That, I being a GUY got carried away, but psst.. what happened to your deen, Oh PIOUS muslimah!!!" Leaving the girl, not only shocked but even worst, feeling like a sinner, a criminal, with her self worth reduced to zilch and in a terrible terrible way!!! Making her feel, that it was ONLY her fault, that she's not a good woman, not good enough to deserve to be that man’s wife or his children's mother! Really? Sick, that entire thing makes me!
And you know, it is all so WRONG! I mean, look at the stories we have on these forum. So many young girls, in their early 20s, feel disgusted for their act. In fact, even the comments, we have read, are "yes you have committed a sin". I seriously can not understand, why do we have to repeat it, and make these already regretful and depressed girls miserable about it. Their very ability to realise that this was not right and their inability to MOVE ON INSTANTLY, is good enough for any sane person to realise, that these are all naive and gullible girls from respectable backgrounds. Perhaps, from very loving families to have believed the world's as good and as harmless, as their immediate environment and people!
And the most disturbing fact, is these men so easily get away with it!!! In most case, they make (at least) 2 women miserable!!! I wonder, do they even realise, what are they upto? Why is it that they fail to treat these women in a respectable way or at least in a way that is human, even if he wants to leave?
I do not say, people are perfect and relationships, once you commit to it will always work out in the long run. But, can't these Men be little sensitive and considerate towards women, while walking away from their life, rather than cheating on them, lying to them, insulting them, reducing their self respect to zilch by making them beg and cry, and to eventually abandon them in a miserable state? Something that will damage a person, forever, perhaps!!!
Why can't these men, leave but only after giving a valid reason to women, whatever it is, a closure, to move on and let move on, respectfully, than making them feel like use and throw, disposable goods? For, these women, absolutely are not one!
In fact, most stories, I have come across on the forum, are so well written and expressed in such lucid manner, speaking enough of their backgrounds, characters, understanding, and education. To me, these women, are by no means, "disposable", they are in fact, IRREPLACABLE!!! In fact, in most posts you will realise, they're down but NOT OUT! They are all, at some point in time, willing to forgive these mean "men".
Look at their virtues, look at their strength, look at their ability to love, they’re strong and accomplished individuals, I mean, imagine, the kind of wives and mothers, these wonderful women would make! I feel BAD, when I see the treatment, some absolutely self centred, spineless and virtue less MEN mete out to them, under the guise of following a religion, they follow according to their convenience, to use it as a defence, as and when they have to hide their own shortcomings!
Also, what deeply anguishes me, is whenever a Men raised a question about leaving a partner, he was told "Okay, you have committed a sin, and now go and beg forgiveness to the Merciful, forget your past, marry or stick to the (innocent) woman of your family's choice, irrespective of your feelings on this regards and that's all about it!!!"
And what happens eventually can be clearly seen from threads that come up in the Infidelity, Forced Marriage, etc section of the forum! It‘s the same story everywhere. The Man tries HARD to carry on the marriage, but is not happy, oh of course although he'll not forget to consummate the marriage (because that is his right!), but at the same time, he'll also continue to not the treat wife good. In fact, there will come a stage, when he will start blaming everyone on the surface of the planet, right from his EX, his Wife, and his family, for all of his miseries! Yeah, right!!! Now, quoting his misery, he'll find himself another excuse, to contact his EX, to stray from a relationship, ONLY to have the best of both the worlds, while making both the SINCERE women suffer at their respective ends!
Also, everyone seems to be so bothered about the innocent wife (who's willingly or unwillingly, god knows it the best) entered in a loveless marriage, but no body, seems to be caring about the equally innocent EX who was left behind sick, hurt and betrayed. Why do we forget, the wife may even get social, financial, emotional security out of the relationship, but the woman, who had done everything to be with this man, is left badly hurt and damaged!!! Why is it, that none of us feel like finding a solution for them?
In fact, we encourage one woman to do injustice to another woman (tell the EX to not tell the wife about the past, and let her live a illusion WHILE asking the wife to keep trying at the marriage instead of ending it, even though she's not treated respectfully or lovingly) because a vile spineless Man acted irresponsibly!!!
Shouldn't we advise, both the women to completely ABANDON these vile GOOD FOR NOTHING "MEN" to get on with life? I, so very much wish, women could think of each other more than such creepy creatures! (This might sound funny, but seriously, is worth giving a thought! What Say?!?! ) 🙂 🙂
@Lala,
I know, your comment is not even worth a response, but I'll try on HUMANITARIAN grounds!!!
My comment is with reference to, if you have heard of something called, a "CONTEXT"!
I said,
In fact, we encourage one woman to do injustice to another woman (tell the EX to not tell the wife about the past, and let her live a illusion WHILE asking the wife to keep trying at the marriage instead of ending it, even though she's not treated respectfully or lovingly) because a vile spineless Man acted irresponsibly!!!
Shouldn't we advise, both the women to completely ABANDON these vile GOOD FOR NOTHING "MEN" to get on with life? I, so very much wish, women could think of each other more than such creepy creatures! (This might sound funny, but seriously, is worth giving a thought! What Say?!?! )
No, I don't expect you understand, so it's alright! As it is, it seems, it's a habit for you to pick things out of context and make completely insensibly personal comments, when you have nothing constructive to add.
And on lesbians or gay, any HONEST, RIGHTEOUS and COMPASSIONATE person, is worth every inch of respect, for they are all God's creation.
Wish you good luck. God Bless You.
ALLAH hafiz
Weltschmerz
@ Lala
Your comments speaks a lot about you, since in my entire post, this is the only thing you could think worthy of your attention and comments.
Very well done....
Dear Elena,
I have no doubts, that you're a strong woman.
On how I understand this, well, been there, done that. 🙂
5 years of what seemed to me a SINCERE relationship, ended up in him marrying behind my back.
I can write, all of these, only after a year of grief and suffering. Glad, at least, I am, that I am almost done with it now. No, will never forget things, but yes, now I know, no one's worth our tears. The best thing is, in the process, I have realised, God's really been with me, to see me through this. And I think, I don't need to tell you, there are a lot of women from amongst us who have been through similar grief. So hold on, and please be strong, express, write and share, if you feel like, this is indeed a wonderful forum and will help you heal. You'll feel, you're not alone in this.
God bless you.
Regards,
Weltschmerz
Frankly speaking Weltschmerz ,
All your comments on this website blasted men(especially muslim men ) directly or indirectly . You are also responsible for your own heart break and sufferings , even more than those men . You protray yourself as SO GODLY AND RELIGIOUS but your actions seem to contradict your sayings .
Islam or Christianity , both prohibit pre-marital contact with opposite sex . Yet , you went against your religion and established contact.
You spent years crying of suffering and pain on what relationship . Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship . This is not a relationship at all from islamic and Christianity viewpoint.
If you were so serious about this man then why didn't you marry him in the first place .
Your relationship was illegitimate from the beginning . You are just one of those typical women who first want to establish a pre -marital relationship and when your man left . You shout and tell the whole world that , that man used you . Your are equally blameworthy of your mistakes . Don't pour the whole blame of your faults on these men .
As a woman , you should have used your brain . Pre-marital relationships only and only bring harm to women .
As you sow , so shall you reap .
Quit this drama .
Oh , I also noticed , you spent 5 years of illegitimate relationship with a man without marriage . This behaviour do not represent a noble and religious character .
Lastly , I must mention that those men are equally guilty as you are . But you must remember that these sort of relationship bring more harm to women than men .
Next time , before getting involved with a guy . Talk about marriage first and this goes to every single women . Premarital relationship will only and only bring shame to your honour and respect .
Women like yo are really weird . First you establish pre-maritat contact and then cry over it . Why not go with the legal way ,that is marriage .
@ LALA,
The MUSLIM man, I was with, was a SICK MAN ABANDONED by his own family, when I treated him!!!!
And If you have cared to assume so much about me, then care to read few of my posts on various threads on the forum. It will perhaps, help you know more about me and my relationship besides ofcourse, my religion, that you have been trying to figure out for ages! (And, well, I must tell you, that as you have assumed, I AM NOT A MUSLIM AND I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, EITHER. Keep guessing, if that's all you're capable of! Your areas of interest, here it seems are people's problems but their sexual preference and religion!).
And FYI, of the 5 years, I spent with the MUSLIM man, for MORE THAN 4.5 years he was in his native country, whereas I was in my native country!!! Think twice, before you insult just about anybody on this forum, on this planet! You may not trust my words, I may not trust yours, but God's watching and he knows, who's RIGHT and to what extent!
This is a forum, where everyone is entitled to express. Most Muslims, I have interacted with here, have been very gracious and respectful. Some have helped me, and hopefully, I have helped some. We have even had differences, but we were all very respectable, in our tones, in our words and in our language. No body, here, stoops down to personal attacks!!!
But your comments, certainly have affirmed my belief, that people's perspective usually speak a lot about their own selves than the one they're talking about!
The problem is, no one on this site has been making DEMEANING PERSONAL remarks, EXCEPT YOU!!! And that is perhaps, only because, you think it's your right since I am a NON MUSLIM!!!
And on me becoming a NUN, oh I must say, I have at least done my bit in helping people always, irrespective of their faith, their nationality and their gender. (DISCRIMINATION, of any kind, is not a part of my indivdual value system!!!) And I'll continue to do so, at least, I feel happy, if can reduce just about anybody's misery even for a second! Very unlike you, you see!! So perhaps, beyond your capacity to even imagine, forget comprehend!!
And you see, I have tried my best to restrain and refrain myself from responding to your comments, in fact, even MOHD. & Truebloood have pulled you once on the same, but I think you don't seem to be getting what people are doing here. Perhaps, they're a different kind.
On me being single, well, if that's what God thinks is the best for me, SO BE IT!!!
I do not think, I need to lean on to someone except God to survive on this planet.
Also, for one thing that you've wished for me, I have several others wishing the best for me. 🙂 You see. So lets leave things to God for he knows things the best. Doesn't really matter, what people like you have to say on a bunch of people. It's just so irrelevant and spiteful that I feel sorry for you.
So just go ahead, and wish ill for me, if that makes you happy. I assure you, I'll not curse you back.
Wish you, good luck. GOD BLESS YOU.
ALLAH hafiz
@ LALA
I have never seen you talk so passionately about what you think are "illegitimate" relationships, while commenting on posts by MEN.
Very interesting, it is, that you have dedicated "lastly" only one line to MEN WHO STRAYED AND BETRAYED as against the sermon you have given to women, WHO STAYED AND WERE SINCERE.
Interesting.
Listen,dear this is exactly the problem:in Europe countries and in USA it is normal for people to live together without being married,even to have baby,and married after,ok?THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ACCEPTED BY THE SOCIETY.So for a non muslim woman it is not a problem to be serious involve with someone,before get marry him-that is call an relationship.And then are coming the MUSLIM MEN-TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS!!!!.Although they knows that is not verry posible to marry a non muslim woman,they still get involve.BUT A NON MUSLIM WOMAN IS NOT IN A POSITION TO KNOWS THAT HER CHANCES TO GET MARRYED WITH THE MUSLIM GUY ARE CLOSE TO ZERO!!!!!non muslim women do not knows the islamic traditions,and men dont provide this information on purpose!!
Hi Elena,
I can completely understand your frustrations and trust me I have been let down so badly by a guy that I have lost trust in all men, but I know deep down that good men do exist. I see my own brothers, cousins, father who treat their wives with much respect, fulfilling their every need and who are willing to compromise to have a healthy and fruitful marriage, so good men do exist.
With regards to muslim men behaving this way, again i do understand your frustrations, but its unfair to generalise. I am muslim myself, and I was let down and used by another muslim man. I fell into his trap, ended up trusting him, and then lost everything...after which he dumped me. He couldve married me to protect my honour and if he truly loved me, his family had no problems with me, they were hapy to accept me as long as he was, but he decided to move onto someone else...simply because he did not respect me anymore.
What I am trying to say is that the behaviour of these men is not islamic, not at all, and nor is it targeted at non muslim women. They are selfish men, who have a very poor grounding in islam. They are merely pupperts of their own desire, and they do as they please without any regards for the feelings, emotions, wellbeing of others. Islam teaches us to get to know our potential spouse respectfully, that means respecting their body and soul. These men usually break these barriers for their own pleasure, whether their muslim or non muslim, and then move on when they find someone new.
I am a firm believer in what goes around comes around. I still havent forgotten whats happened with me, but im trying my very best to move on. I am learning from my kmistakes with this awful man,and trying to leave his fate in Allahs hand. It sounds awful but I would love to see him hurt, and I would love to see him shed tears the same way I did...but whats the use, he is just not worth. None of these men are.
I pray and hope, that every single man and woman that has been hurt moves on to see much happiness, and expereinces true love and respect from a spouse who is good for them in this world and the hereafter.
So Elena, please try not to generalise your expereinces to all muslim men, I promise you they are not all the same. In fact I can think of an example of a very close friend of mine. She fell in love with a muslim man, she herself was christian and a practising one at that! Anyway, they got married. They too initially had problems, whereby families did not agree to the marriage but they stuck together and got married. She told me that her husband was a good muslim, however, not once did he force her to accept Islam or to wear the hijab etc. Many years went by, and he taught her about islam through his actions not just words. They had children, and again he did not force her to accept Islam. Becasure of her expereince with him however, she found islam to be a beautiful and respectful religion. She developed her own interest in islam and decided to research it, and eventually after many years of marriage and a couple of kids she off her own back decided islam was the way forward for her andaccepted it.
Now thats what I call a man, he stood by the girl he loved, respected her throughout the marriage, continued to love her and compromised to make the marriage a success. This is an example of a good muslim...all these other men, are just examples of useless, good for nothing scum bags!!
Christianity prohibits pre-marital contact with the opposite sex?
Of course, if you follow the Scriptures closely that is, which is rare to find.
My above response was for Sam.
I am very interested in hearing which Christian scriptures you are interpreting this way, Faith and/or Lala! As a religion student, I have never heard this concluded by any scholars. Certainly gender segregation in Orthodox and Haredi Judaism exists, but the justification is mostly Talumudic/rabbinic (and cultural), not from the Bible/Torah. Aside from very occasional instances of old-world European Eastern (Orthodox, and rarely Catholic) congregations having separate pew seating for men and women, I have not heard of gender segregation existing in practice within Christendom, let alone having scriptural justification.
This assertion was thrown out to Weltschmerz in a, shall we say, not very complimentary posting, apparently under the assumption that she was Christian (as the original poster was). As it is obviously the entire point of this site to offer Islamically-based advice, there is of course no problem pointing out the nature and details of haram relationship behavior from that perspective. But I think it is a proverbial slippery slope to start attributing Islamic commandments and proscriptions to other religions without justification; it is especially problematic if it is done as a way to insult someone. Why muddy the waters?
This was possibly the best written piece i have ever read. Thank you
@ LALA
To answer some of your questions,
1. I met the Muslim man, while treating him, when he was sick and abandoned by his OWN family.
He was a PAKISTANI MUSLIM, if that bit of info. helps you.
2. The day, the MUSLIM man, I was with and I realised our affection for one another, the first thing we had done, was to announce our association to our respective families.
3. Our association was never a SECRET, from just about anybody.
4. within months of us meeting each other, his visa had expired and he had to leave to for his country.
5. For more than, 4.5 years, we were struggling to be together.
6. And one fine day, after 5 long years, of struggle we put up, he gets married behind my back!
7. if this makes you happy, he NEVER told me about it!
8. Even, a couple of days after his wedding, he was professing his affection for me.
9. It was I who chose to terminate all the communication with him, when I got to know from his uncle, that the guy had married behind my back.
10. And yet that guy kept calling up, behind his wife's back. Worst, when I didn't respond to his antics, he made his mother call me up, and to my horror, she actually did!
Yes, I must say, you're right, I am the one to be blamed in this entire mess, because I cared for a sick man, loved him selflessly, who never really deserved it! Lesson learnt, the HARD WAY! Thank God, at least, I did! Now, I know, what I need to avoid!
This goes to lala and the lady weltschmerz,, lala, atimes your comments do offend people because of the vulgarity involve. You may mean well in ur heart but your response are unproductive and arrogant because you are attaking, not advicing... Try to consider this for the sake of next time. Weltschmerz, i always love your response, i really do.. I never knew the full version of your story until now that i read it.. This is a big form of betrayal and i know you must be hurt from within, and it's really unfortunate that you fell on the wrong hand because judging by what you said, you partner is an example of muslim that do not follow the teaching of his religion. but you should know that this is not how all men behave perticulaly 'muslim men'.. It seems as if you are annoyed with the comment of lala,, but that should'nt stop you from reaching out here and helping vulnerable women with your sweet and immotional advices, pls keep it up because you are helping peopling and more over you are helping your self and gaining.. So pls accept the apologies, you are really wonderful and i really mean it
You didn't marry him right ?
Whatever the case might be , the man and you are both equally responsible for the mess created .
I didn't see the word marriage in your response . No marriage , no affectionate or intimate relationship b/w two opposite sexes .
And he had no responsibilty to tell you that he had married behind your back . If you loved each other so much then why didn't you marry him in the first case . You could have proposed in those 5 years , if he had loved you , he would have married you very early .
Don't be so naive .
@ Mohd .... You know yourself that all pre-marital contact is haram and boyfriend-girlfriend relationship is not recognized in islam . If she had been married and her man married another woman behind her back , I would have understand the problem. But there was no relationship
from the begining .
Marriage is a safety net for women .
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
weltschmerz ..... I am pulling back . Perhaps I failed to convey my message properly . Thank you for your comments . As mohd suggested , you should stay on this site and convey ideas which may or may not represent islamic rules but can be good to read .
I must also mention that , whatever I said before in my post till now . I stand firm on that . You may not like it or agree to it . You don't have to actually .
@LALA
Do I even care about what you have got to say on this? NO!!!
You come here, to pull people down, to mock at them, their miseries. But I come here, to try my bit, to make people think, before they knowingly or unknowingly cause any trauma to anybody! My questions are not about offending people, or a religion, they are all an effort, to make people think, before they do something that is irreversible! I am not here to jugde anyone, I am too trivial to do that. But God knows things the best, and we all one day have to face him.
No we didn't marry, and we won't even have babies together, but I don't regret that I met him. I am happy, we at least, got 5 years together. Yes, I almost died without him, but my God's made me survive. And the fact that I survived, says, my life's very precious and God wants me here. So NO, I still don't regret. Because yes I believe, it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all!!! And very happy, I am, that I am capable of loving people. I don't need any safety nets, I have a strong SPINE and an affectionate heart, and that's enough for me!
After all, you see, some people live a perfect life, and some people live a special life! I am glad, I am living a special life. But I pray for you, that you live a PERFECT LIFE. AMEN.
And Oh, I am so glad, you have ALLOWED me to stay on this forum!!!
GOD BLESS YOU.
ALLAH hafiz
Weltschmerz
And Lala, ask me, if today, do I even know, if he loved me?
NO, I do not know! But does it even matter? Not to me, at least! I loved him, I was sincere and that's enough for me. I didn't love him, with CONDITIONS APPLY.
I have seen that man ruin in front of my eyes.
I was 26 and he was 29, when we met. And I was 31 and he was 34, when we parted!
Preople don't throw away, the best and the prime 5 years of their lives.
I am an Indian and a HINDU, if that can encourage you to hate me all the more.
Do you now know, why we couldn't marry?
Don't judge people, so easily.
Go ahead and shower me with your hatred, because now I have given you a very strong reason, to hate me!
Don't worry, now I'll never come here, again. You're the RIGHTFUL OWNER of ALLAH, of ISLAM, AND EVERY MUSLIM, here.
Weltschemez, you are still angry after all my apologies to you., you want to quit just because of one person who has even pull back. Then what about others that are gaining from your emotional advice and vice vasa??. There are many non muslims who also give good and comforting advice here and we really appriatiate that, you are not the only non muslim here... The rules here is if someone gives a wrong or stupid comment, the editors of this site do moderate or even delete such comment .... We are all matured and we all know what brought us here.. Pls i just want you to witdraw your statement and resume back helping... My believe is you are learning new things about islam here in this site, and with our interaction here, you could be asking thing you dont know about islam and parhaps the misconception you have heared from the media and others could be corrected here. You would be expose to muslims here in this site, even though we dont know each other, we are feeling each other in out hearts... What you soppose to know is many of the questions posted on this site are been posted by non muslims. People from different races and religions ask there questions here, so this place is a centre for learning... Pls pls pls witdraw your statement, we love and enjoy you company.
Dear Mohd.
I am so glad that you responded to this. People like you always reaffirm my belief in GOD, GOOD MEN, & HUMANITY.
I am as happy as you're, if my words are able to help people feel better even for a moment. Like, I have said a lot many times earlier, this entire thing is also helping me heal. And Thank you, for your appreciation, keeps me motivated.
Yes, I was very hurt with whatever happened, last year. It was just about the same time. But, now I have nothing in my heart for him. No anger, no bitterness, no sense of loss, no grief. No, I won't forget this ever, but now I think, a memory I have shared with him won't make me weak and sad, anymore. Perhaps, who knows, tomorrow, if at all ever in life, I'll come across his children, I'll be at least able to hug them. Believe me, I have never hated that man ever, even after what all happened, perhaps, he could not deal with the pressures of a long distance relationship, but what hurt me most was the lie, that he lied to me. He did something, that put a big question mark on the 5 long years of trust and confidence we had on each other. Had he told me everything beforehand, I would have lived on, with the belief, that we loved and we lost. But unfortunately, he couldn't take care of it.
Anyway. After days of keeping my smile intact, today, I have tears brimming in my eyes... perhaps, I was healing myself, as I was trying to help others heal, but some elements can't even take that. Doesn't matter. For then there are people like you as well. I can't thank you enough, for writing in. Your assurance and your encouraging words, have indeed comforted me.
I sincerely pray and wish, God fulfills your dreams. God bless you and your loved ones.
ALLAH hafiz
Weltschmerz
Assalamualaikum ,
Dearest Weltschmerz ,
I adore you so much for your kind , loving words. If some body speaks wrong of someone else or is judgemental it speaks about his own inner self . May Allah (s.w.t) give them a pure heart like you have and show them the right path . This forum is to help each other rather than hurting them more in their times of trial.
May Allah (s.w.t) reward you. Ameen
Masalaam
Dearest Muslim,
You have been very kind to me. You give me hope. And I think, we share a strong connect, without even having met each other. AndI really value the fact that, we met. I think, God designed it for us...
I hope, your father's recuperating and I hope, you're being strong. Please be, do not let anyone or anything affect you.
Will pray, for the best for you, forever. And I am sure, you will also keep in me in your thoughts.
Sincerely pray, God gives you the BEST MAN, for a loving husband. Someone, OUR kind. 🙂
I doubt, if I'll be able to come here, again. But you will always be in my thoughts.
Sincere affection and warmth,
Weltschmerz
@ weltschmers
Well u Said ur a indian hindu and that encourage to hate more .
Well y is that so , if there gonna be hate based on the religion than the very teaching of islam is not understood by ppl
Secondly , its kind of going like a cat fight (the way I see it) between lala and welstschmerz and it would nte benefit the author of the post who need a solution from us and if this goes it would rather turn into a debate that a simple answer out thing
@ Truebloood
I have said,
I am an Indian and a HINDU, if that can encourage you to hate me all the more.
Do you now know, why we couldn't marry?
And this was in response to LALA, who's taken major pains in figuring out my religion and had made it a base, to even question me if I was eligible enough to write here.
If you read, the first post I have put here, it was with reference to the question raised in this thread. But if you bother to check my posts on various threads on the forum, LALA, has made a point to PICK AND RESPOND only to MY post but not to the thread.
And he's made some very demeaning remarks, in which case, I have every right to put my foot down. No this is no CATFIGHT. Please, give things a thought before using random words.
ANd don't worry, I am not coming back here, now, never ever.
Like, I have said earlier, a lot many times, I do not discriminate people on basis of their faith, nationality or gender. I have suffered because of the same reasons. And I'll be the last person on this planet, to adopt that.
Hi Weltschmerz.
I do second what Mohd said, you have offered some wise advice on this forum and it is much appreciated, so please if you can stay and continue to help others please do. You do not want to let the harsh words of one person on here prevent you from doing that do you?
We allow comments on here as long as they are not contradictory to Islam and in general its best to try and avoid discussions on here. So please do not feel unwelcome because you are not Muslim - we have many non-Muslims who visit this site and offer good advice. We also have non-Muslims write in. There may aspects of Islam you do not agree with - and thats fine provided we all follow the rules.
I do love the advice you have offered in the past, and I hope you do stay and help us sister as your presence is much appreciated and helpful. I will miss your comments. I also pray that Allah (God) replaces your lost with something better, removes your pain and places you and us all on the straight path.
Ameen
I will pray for you
Sara
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Well my choice of word was wrong , but if u see what I have mentioned afterwards is that .
it won't benefit the author of this post who need solution from us .
@ Truebloood
And please bother to go through the entire post, if you can, before jumping to conclusions, and quoting things out of context.
This is what LALA posted to my (2 pages long) post on the thread,
"I say , are you a lesbian ?"
My earnest request to everyone here, JUDGE PEOPLE only when you have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong.
So disappointed, I am! So disappointed.
Thank you, anyway. My illusion's come to an end!
Assalaam Walekum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu Sister Weltschmerz,
I am praying to Allah The All knowing to inspire you to log back in here, and let you forgive whoever has hurt you.Mark my words: Forgiving is the biggest charity someone can give.Its similar to the feeling of love you had for someone.It only matters if you were sincere.Similarly it only matters whether you have forgiven or not.So that you dont feel as if your heart is choking on to something.Just think calmly, may be there is one person in this world who has some problem, and it might be you and only you who have a reply ,which Allah can inspire in your heart,and can help that person.And the unfortunate event which is leading you to pull off from this forum may delay one of our lord's creation from getting a solution to his/ her problem.Because not all people are gifted.Remember this.
Lastly but not least, Allah is also not dependent on you and me to guide others.Its just that he tests us with what we do ,with what he has bestowed upon us. And if you can still sleep after going away from us all out here and be happy within your heart I will not ask you to reconsider your decision.
Illusion, Disappointment and our faith. Good to know that you are from same place as I am. In fact I should tell you that I studied 12 years in a Hindu school.With every morning praying infront of idol of Saraswati with assembly.Reason for studying in that school was poverty and pursuit of education.Also my parents didnt consider it wrong.But After all this I firmly believe My lord will surely forgive me.I believe in HIM, I have faith in HIS judgement, and I have hopes only from HIM.
Also in Quran there is a verse which says something like this: there are people out there who when hear words of Allah for the first time, feel as if it was already instilled in their heart before, they start weeping, and fall in prostration at once.
You and me are no different till we surpass all tests of life and breath our last.And that last breath only will know who had faith and who had not. I would make a fool of myself if I say confidently that I am true muslim.But I am happy about the fact that I am blessed with something which I personally feel didnt deserve it(Allah knows better).
Coming to one of the righteous man's deed.He was a learned scholar of Islam, used to write copies of quran and was a king Himself. Once while he was writing a man passed by , the man told him that what he has written has one mistake and asked him to correct.The righteous man promply accepted. took pen and striked off the mistake being pointed out and corrected as per the passer by's remark.The passerby left.
Once he left the righteous put back the scripture to original form,as it was earlier.Upon this his follower's asked him: however you knew what other man was saying was wrong ,why did you changed what you have written in first place? The righteous man said, if I would have confronted him infront of everyone then he would have felt embarrassed.And all the water in the oceans would have not been enough to wipe out his embarrasment. Then what would I have answered my lord on judgement day.
Allah hafiz wa Nasir
Wetschmaz, i made a reply to you and it's below the last comment of lala. I guess you have not seen it., just scroll and glance through it please.
My apologies. I have been busy lately and I did not moderate this thread properly. Now I see some inappropriate comments by Lala and I have deleted them.
However, it's also illogical to come here and say, "Oh yeah, all the Muslim men do this, they are terrible, etc". No, not all Muslim men do this. The reason you have seen several such stories repeated on this post is because that is the subject of this post.
If you go to a discussion forum where people are talking about heartburn, you'll see everyone on the forum saying, "I have this problem too, I have severe heartburn, what can I do, etc". Is it then logical to say, "Look at that, all Americans have heartburn!"
The problem exists, but it's not a product of Islamic teaching, and it is not universal. It is against Islam, as Islam teaches sincerity before all.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
It is a known fact that Islam does not advocate pre-marital relationships and intimacy without marriage.
But to tell the women they are wrong for being in love with someone is unfair, each culture has its own norms and since many of them are from non-muslim backgrounds, how is it feasible to expect them to know that the men involved were not true practicing muslims?
The cornerstone of every religion is respect for humanity and empathy for all forms of life be it human or otherwise. If the men cannot keep up the relationship they need to let the woman go and move on, not lie and cheat to them. The woman's fault is that they are naive, but please dont condemn them by telling them that they have bad character because they chose to love someone.
To trust is not wrong, to betray someone's trust and faith is- so think before sayng anything harsh to anyone who has been hurt on account of not knowing that the other person was betraying them
Please comment sisters reply and not insult people on this thread. It is very disappointing we have so many people who arrogant and have no sense of respect for other feelings.
Dear All,
Thank you so much for your warmth and assurance. I, very sincerely appreciate every single word, I have read here. It indeed means a lot, to me!
On my outburst, yes, I was terribly upset (although not angry!) when I decided to not come back to this forum, again. Perhaps, silly but very honest because there were things that disturbed me, and I cried miserably after days, when I wrote my "supposed to be" last posts on this forum. And no, I don't blame, anybody for this, perhaps, this was something that I had to deal with, for one last time, which now I think, I have!
Also, I do not know, if I'll be able to keep writing here, but I assure you I'll, as and when, I think, I have something comforting and helpful to offer. Also, please rest assured, I have no malice in my heart and have no intentions of hurting anybody, never on the basis of their beliefs or religion.
Also, there are few things, that I really want to share with everyone here (irrespective of their religion, beliefs, gender, nationality, race, whatsoever!) with the intention to ensure, that nobody is misunderstood / offended.
First thing first, please do not take GENERALISED COMMENTS PERSONALLY or consider them directed towards ISLAM. Just because, women here have discussed a group of Muslim men, it doesn't mean, we condemn Islam, or Muslim men in general.
In fact, to be, very specific, I have clearly stated in my post that the problem we are discussing in this thread, is UNIVERSAL (irrespective of religion, & even GENDER!). I or other non Muslim women HAD to state MUSLIM men, only for one reason and that is the way they use ISLAM & its TEACHINGS, to their convenience, as a defence to cover up their own shortcomings, their own misdeeds.
For eg,
(a) In free societies, when a person leaves a relationship, he accepts that either the relationship's not working out, there is lack of compatibility, lack of whatever or just that he's being plain selfish. Willingly or unwillingly, he admits, it's him / her! It hurts, but people accept it and move on!
(b) In societies, where arranged marriage is a prevalent practice, the person who leaves, has a tendency to blame things on their parents, on their society and the world around to cover up the mess he's created. But even in that, he will indirectly admit, that he's simply being a spineless person and has no capacity to fight for someone he claimed he loved. Again, it hurts, but feels good eventually, "OK good riddance, for he's not worth!"
I am sure, a lot of Indian men do this to women, who do not know about this practice in India or just about anywhere!
(c) But in case of Muslim men, we have to use the term "Muslim" because, the defence these "supposed" Muslim men use generally is RELIGION. Instead, of accepting that they're being mean and selfish, they blame it on their religion. The end result is, they make the entire thing look like a doomed love story. A tragedy, of sorts. Where the love's not ceased, but was forcefully taken away. Leaving a person confused for a lifetime! Confused about this man, the relationship, Muslims, ISLAM, ISLAMIC culture and traditions!
Please realise, the very fact that these non muslim women have reached here, and asked for guidance on a forum based on the fundamentals of Islam, states, that we're seeking the truth. That we're not blaming everything on ISLAM for misdeeds of someone who claims to be a representative of it! I agree, I absolutely agree, with you all, when you say, these men are not TRUE muslims! Because, a Muslim according to my understanding is a person who has a Musallam Iman!
Also, the very fact, that we're the same women, who could believe and have affection for Muslim men, proves, we're not people who discriminate between people on basis of their religions or nationality!
Also, appreciate the fact that we have raised our dilemma on a Muslim forum, not on Non muslim forums. The idea, is not to offend you, but to ask you to help us understand the situation better and also to alert you on the activities of a bunch of men, that is denting the reputation, of a larger number of people, who are very unlike them! Can not the good Muslims do anything to curb a menace, curb a bunch of irresponsible liars?
And like, I have said earlier, I earnestly request you all to not take things in the wrong light, or take things personally or feel offended, if non muslims, come here with a dilemma, that involves a Muslim. In fact, I'll encourage you to understand that you can by the very nature of the response, you give to them can change a person’s perspective on ISLAM and Muslims, forever.
Honestly, I could come back here and share this with you all so easily is because I have grown up in a secular environment, with people following different faiths. My best friend is a Muslim, and she's one IDEAL Muslim! My parents, my family completely adore her parents and her family. And although, I am a Hindu, my family's a Hindu, we have a QURAN, along with many other religious texts, at my home. I have been to Ajmer Sharif, every time I had an opportunity (I even go to other places of worship!). But imagine, for people, for whom, a bad encounter was perhaps the only encounter they have had with Muslims or Islam, it can prove as a deterrent.
Hope, this helps.
Thank you, again, for everything. Pray God blesses us all with the wisdom and strength to do what is right.
Sincere Regards,
Weltschmerz
Welcome back weltschmers
People and other people , if v discuss among us it lead to clash/rift of thoughts among us.
lets me put it like this
" united v stand divide v fall "
ok,I understand,is not about the religion,it is about the PERSON.I apologize if I have been generalizing.anyway I dont even care anymore,so please dont involve me at further conversations.life is going on 🙂
I'm a muslim girl, aged 24 and I've been dating to a muslim man, aged 30..
He came from pakistan n I'm not from pakistan, he came to my country for work n study
(Remainder of question deleted by Editor)
Sister,
You must log in and submit your question as a separate post. But in short, I will say just this: It is completely forbidden in Islam to have boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. Leave this man, do tawbah and turn to your deen. If this man is sincere in his intentions, he will approach your family with a proper proposal. Anything less is not enough for a Muslim woman.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor