How can I get over my upset that he is not a virgin?
I've been with this guy for almost 7 months now. We are very in love, I care about him immensely. And we are even planning marriage soon. To me he is perfect. There is nothing wrong with him the only problem I have with him is his past. When I first met him he did tell me that he was not a virgin, at that time it did not really bother me because it was a long time ago and he was studying his deen and practicing Islam now so I figured that’s just his past and he’s changed now. But recently I have been really hurting over this. Like it’s really bothering me that he is not a virgin and he’s been with other girls. I feel like if I stayed clean all my life he should have had the will power to do so as well.
Sometimes I have like mental images of him being with other girls or being intimate with them and it literally makes me sick to my stomach. No event really triggered this; I just started feeling like this out of nowhere. I talked to him about it and he told me that was his past and its something he regrets and repents over all the time. He wishes he never did it and he told me just to forget it and move on and pretend that it never happened. But it’s not that easy for me. Sometimes I do get over it but then other times I think about it again. It just makes me so disgusted and angry that he already had sexual intercourse with other girls. They were not even relationships. A couple of them were just random girls that he knew for a little while. I feel like I can never be intimate with him after marriage because it will never be special like it will be for me since its going to be my first time. But I feel like for him its just going to be just another girl. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to keep mentioning it to him either because I know it makes him feel bad when I bring up his past, but I just don’t know how to deal with it.
I don’t want to break up this great relationship because he means so much to me but at the same time I’m having such a hard time getting over his past. Sometimes I even have like graphic images about it. I feel like I’m going crazy.
~Pinkberry
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Dear sister
You need to grow up mentally and realise that the chances of marrying a virgin is very slim.
If you dont marry this brother, you will more than likely have the same problem with another brother.
Life is not a movie, deal with it.
'Good intentions', despite your good intentions, your comment was very insensitive.
The sister 'Pinkberry', has every right to feel the way she does. If she can get past the 'virgin' issue, then alhumdulillah. If she cannot, then she should not be made to feel guilty about it. She is not showing arrogance or hatred towards her fiance. Infact I believe that the sister has been very humble in her post and also very honest. She is doing the right thing and trying to find a way to get past this. So lets try to help her. Insha'Allah others will post more helpful comments.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com
With respect, sister pinkbery does not have a right to feel this way because this man she is talking about is not lawfull for her, and she is not lawfull for him.
Abu Az-Zubayr,
I am not judging or questioning the nature of the sister's relationship with this man. I am simply referring to her preference which she has a right to and if sister prefers her husband to be a virgin before marriage, then so be it.
So can you clarify what you mean by: 'sister pinkbery does not have a right to feel this way', as I do not understand what you mean.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
interesting how it happens on every post, that the repliers have a mini-debate between themselves lol, and this leaves the questioner in even more confusion, certainly a interesting read for the neutral. this site should have a seperate debating section, where people can expand on others views.
Yes she does have a right. They are planning to get married.
I think the person who has posted this question is very naive and Sister Z by wrapping her up in cotton wool you are causing her more harm in the long term.
You dont have to agree with my opinion but there is no need to brand me as insensitive when I do have the best intentions for pinkberry. Can you see into my heart? If my younger sister came to me with the same issue I would give the same advice.
The poster of this question is very idealistic which is great but she cant impose the same views on her boyfriend, its not realistic! Bollywood has alot to answer for.
Ps slander and backbiting is worse than ulawful sexual intercourse (hadith), please bear that in mind before taking things out of context and acting as judge, jury and executioner.
Open your minds to different opinions, being so tunnel visioned helps no-one.
Ps slander and backbiting is worse than ulawful sexual intercourse (hadith), please bear that in mind before taking things out of context and acting as judge, jury and executioner.
Open your minds to different opinions, being so tunnel visioned helps no-one.
Oh really .Can you please show reference from Bukhari or Muslim . ??
And kindly , next time , don't post hadiths without references .
I am not wrapping the sister up in cotton wool, I was simply saying that the sister should feel free to air her thoughts and questions, thats her right. At the same time we should help get past her issue with this matter. Saying 'just get over it' is not, in my view helpful.
For the record, I believe that the past should remain in the past and we shouldn't judge each other on this. Everyone makes mistakes, if we repent, Allah forgives, end of chapter.
SisterZ
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Lala it is in Sahih Bukhari, hope that it is helpful inshallah.
Good intentions ,
Please be precise . Tell the exact quote and the reference number .
The reason I am asking you about this is because I find it really surprising that backbiting is more severe sin than fornication .
I would request you to please provide the the precise reference or take back this quote .
Posting statements and saying that they are from bukhari without any proof is a sin itself.
' You need to grow up mentally and realise that the chances of marrying a virgin is very slim. '
with a comment like that, you downgrade the credibility of this site and how it helps people, if you want to post things like that, DONT !!
What gives you the right to say the chances of marrying a virgin are slim, their are many virgins out there and your reply will leave a lot disheartened, many young kids come on here, and read your post, you know whats happening out there, girls are thinking like you, that when we marry our husband will be a non-virigin so why should we hold back, people like you re-enforce this view and so girls go ahead and commit zina, they end up hurt but lose their virginity, so think before you write, i dont know your age but maybe you need to grow up yourself. think before posting insensitive words.
lol I do think the chances of marrying a virgin are slim, I dont think it is right BUT I also dont think it is right for you to unleash verbal abuse and rant like a crazy man, but that is life.
I fully agree with your comment .
@Good intentions ..... There are so many virgins out there . Perhaps the place where you live or the circle in which you move may have people who sleep around and commit fornication , but saying that chances of getting a virgin is slim is highly ridiculous . And before making these sort of statements . Always remember that there are people of different ages who come to this site and read the content . Your statement may cause disappointment in them and may in some case weaken their faith in their spouses . This may sound stupid but it is actually true .
Can I ask you where are you from ? east or west ? ,
I don't think kelvenater is abusing you verbally or ranting like a crazy man .
As salamu alaykum, good intentions,
Nobody here doubts that you want the best for the sister and that you want to save her from deception, but what everyone wants to tell you is that maybe you should understand as you said that only Allah(swt) knows what is in the Heart of everyone and what waits for us in our journey, and even when I understand you feel that is your duty to open her eyes to the world, you should understand too that the world that you want her to see it is your own world, all of us could have a different opinion, and that it is in fact the way it is, and doesn´t mean that one of us has the truth, the truth will be a mixed of all that we expose and what the sister at the end will be prepared to receive, insha´Allah.
Having said this and acknowledging you felt hurt for being misunderstood, I would like you, Insha´Allah, if you don´t mind and you find it appropiate to apologize for your words to Brother Kelvenater, you may not understand all that he says but the advice given by him is sound, compassionate, wise and humble, there is no need to say those things and talk that language one brother to other one, Allah(swt) forbids.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
As salamu alaykum, Kelvenater,
Sorry I just realized, I don´t know if you are a brother or a sister, please forgive me if you are a sister, I have referred to you as a brother, before.
I do agree and support your comments, but here I have to say something in favour of Sister good intentions, because I have been unfair to her, we should be able to understand that what you call insensitive words are the words that she is telling herself everyday. She wants to be a grounded, realistic person, maybe nobody has acknowledge her the right to ask for what she wants, what you have said is a good message for her too and you are teaching her, she is virgin herself and she keeps herself, but she needs to know that she will have a chance even when all the statistics may say the contrary, if she wants to marry a virgin man, insha´Allah, she can ask for it if she wants, if she gets him or not, only Allah(swt) knows.
Insha´Allah, you will understand my concern and if you find it appropiate you could apologize to her because she didn´t feel respected.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Walaikumsalaam sister maria, i am a brother
@good intentions, sister my post was not a verbal attack on you, and lol im not crazy just passionate, when reading your reply i failed to consider that you may be from a different culture or area where circumstances are different, and so i voiced my opinion without regarding that, but i do respect your opinion and dont come on this site to start war of words, i apologise if i came across wrong, i am simply passionate about islam and this comes out in my replies, and i hope you dont be scared off or intimidated by my reply i meant no malice.
I pray inshaAllah you do find a virgin man, and once again i apologise for hurting your feelings, may Allah forgive me and may you accept my apology.
Salaam
Jazak Allah khair, Brother Kelvenater.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Salaam sister, firstly your in a haraam relationship, islam forbids pre-marital relationships of any kind and you are comitting a sin by keeping contact, bare this in mind and remember you must repent for this, i advise you keep away from this man until/if you marry him.
The weakness in faith and lack of control has led many brothers into the sin of zina, this is a fact, but as much as much people may say, their are more muslim virgins than non-virgins so a good point to bare in mind, in your circumstance the issue has became rather big and needs to be resolved if you choose to continue your marriage plan.
Marriage is a contract between man and wife, where both accept the terms its binded by, however the key to a succesful marriage is understanding of each other, and without this you will never see happyness, with your current situation, you have feelings for this guy and have no other issue except the fact he is a non virgin. I want you to follow my advise and make sure your confident before making a decision.
It takes a big heart to forgive someone who has comitted zina, and its very hard whoever you are, especially considering that you have saved yourself for marriage mashaAllah, but the decision is in your hands, the images you create and feelings you have are natural and make no mistake you are not to blame for thinking this way, as we think of marriage we think of spending the rest of our life with one person who we love, however sex is what makes marriage special and is a integral part of keeping a healthy relationship, if you are currently having these images in your mind and feeling sick, ask yourself and only you know can you be intimate with him in marriage without these images coming back and will you ever be satisfied knowing that its special for you, whereas him its just another girl, if answer is no then i recommend you leave him because you marriage wont work, if you can overcome this and move on then carry on and marry him, but make sure you can, its too late to back out later, do not think of him but yourself, can you live with it ? and could you have a healthy sex life knowing what you do ?
As for the brother, i am not doubting his repentence or his will power, but for him it is easier to accept you and ask you to forget that part of his past, and so make your decision with time and break contact with him while you do, i suggest you pray salat-ul-istikhara it is very beneficial and inshaAllah you will be at ease once you see the outcome, and you can also make your decision then and ultimately whatever it may be it will be in your best interests and Allah will guide you.
best of luck, i hope i answered your question to a degree.
do not think of him but yourself, can you live with it ? and could you have a healthy sex life knowing what you do ?
Masha'allah, that is the crux of this situation. If she sits back and thinks about this issue with this question in her mind, she'll make the right decision no matter what she chooses.
The way she explains her value of virginity is healthy and honest, though the imagined images maybe of the Shaytan and of the ego. Yet, being unable to move past that will be determine their life together.
Given what she has said, she should seriously rethink her impending plans for marriage and think about this with due intention of seeking the correct path.
dear pinkberry,
my very sisterly advise to you. if you think this man is good and you like him, marry him. his past is his past. he has been honest to tell you. many dont even mention. you could be marrying a virgin but he might end up having extra marital affairs. then what will such so called virginity means?
if its too much bothering you then say to your self , is it fair to punish him for his past , when he is changed . Allah has given women a lot of forgiving nature. just forgive him. once you have forgiven him it wont bother you so much. dont dig in too much trying to find out how many girls etc , you are only creating more mental torture for yourself. that which is hidden by Allah let it stay covered.
forgive him, marry him. dont dwell on this relationship .
Dear Pinkberry
My advice to you is not to let go of this guy if that is the only reason, he was honest with you and that means that he can be trusted. Trust is so important, when i hear of couples breaking up who love each other very much, one of the prime reasons they give is that love is not always enough... I cant trust my spouse.
I dont want you to wake up few years down the line and regret letting him go and that is why I gave you a cold solution earlier so that it really hits home with you.
I dont want you to feel regret or feel loneliness. Mashallah he has repented. And the silver lining is that he can be trusted no matter how uncomfortable or ugly the truth. That is priceless.
Asalaam alaykum,
He may be honest with his past, but why are they not married right now and are instead talking about sexual details?
I think she needs to examine the basis of this relationship instead. If they are genuine and sincere, then the parents are involved and their wedding is imminent. In fact, they could do nikkah any day of the week and let the ceremony plans happen later, but instead, they are not. So in my opinion I must ask, how honest is this relationship to Allah (swt)?
Looking at the answers, I was reminded of two things, which might useful to the scenario :
1 - When a person cannot forget someone else's mistake, he/she needs to think about himself/herself. How would one feel when on the day of Judgment the same is done to you? If Allah were to pick your wrong deeds and magnify them and not let go of them - no matter how heavy your righteous deeds might be (nauzubillah)?
2 - If someone sincerely repents, then it is as if the person has NEVER COMMITTED THAT SIN AT ALL. So, if, for Allah he is as if he has never committed that sin, then who are you and me? When the Creator does not have a problem then why the creation?
A brother had a similar problem (but worse) - he couldn't forget that someone had touched his girlfriend's face (you know what I mean). Although she was a VIRGIN. Usually this is because of building thoughts upon thoughts AND because of Shaytan. Since this relationship is Haram, no wonder Shaytan will have a huge influence on it.
By the way Brother Kelvenater, you are right. I know of a brother who has reads hundreds of question and even more comments on this site - but he does not reply at all. What a person reads DOES make a difference.
Thank you
As salamu alaykum, onewilltry,
There is something I would like to share with you, masha´Allah, you seems to have a big, soft Heart, Alhamdulillah, many of us may have a big, soft heart but certain aspects of this dunya may touch us in different ways, when you feel something from your guts, your instincts rebels, or just feeling uncomfortable in a situation we should listen to it, this doesn´t mean we cannot forgive others fault, means that we cannot live hand to hand with them, because the alarm system is already pulsing and making noises, this maybe too much for us.
We maybe able to handle other kind of situations but not the one that is putting our lights in red, or at least, not right now, we may not have the key that will keep quiet the alarm and what we need to do is just move in other direction, staying far from the origen of the problem until we are able to find that key and make it work properly, insha´Allah.
Please, be patience with the rest of us, the steps of the stair are many, be patience with those of us that are in a different step than yours, not all of us have the same lessons to learn, Alhamdulillah, you may have an A where I have a C, but I may have an A where you have a C, this is the beauty of Humanity and that is why we cannot judge one the others, Alhamdulillah.
Only Allah(swt) knows the Hearts and only in Him we have all the answers, Alhamdulillah.
Allah(swt) knows all and the best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
A brother had a similar problem (but worse) - he couldn't forget that someone had touched his girlfriend's face (you know what I mean). Although she was a VIRGIN. Usually this is because of building thoughts upon thoughts AND because of Shaytan. Since this relationship is Haram, no wonder Shaytan will have a huge influence on it.
That brother shouldn't be having a "girlfriend" as this is haraam, as well. And to be honest, there is always the questionable reason as to why this "girlfriend" would reveal that?
In my book, and I believe in many people's opinion, she isn't a virgin, either.
As salamu alaykum, Brother Professor X,
I agree with you about the haraam relationship, but something that a sister/brother taught me was not to doubt on the dignity of anyone, I shouldn´t doubt on the words told or being suspicious about something not said directly, those are tricky whispers on our ears. We shouldn´t doubt that she was virgin, if she said so and only Allah(swt) and her knows which was the reason behind the revelation, we don´t have to doubt on others word, at least, I learnt it this way. I hope you don´t mind I shared this with you.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
There are alot of double standards in this post, I have essentially said the same thing as Professor X,
'In my book, and I believe in many people's opinion, she isn't a virgin, either.'
Yet I was launched with verbal abuse. This is my experience of the world, and I cannot apologise for this. I have kept myself good before marriage but Im realistic to know that the chances of having a virgin husband is unlikely given the divorce rate. You all just assumed I was referring to zina and fornication and i cant think why??
There are alot more worse things on this site such as openly discussing masturbation and pornography, what about influencing young ears now??? Perhaps the editors should look into filtering certain content to alleviate their sudden concern.
Sister Maria it is important to remain fair, the brother openly condemned me but I dont see you asking him to apologise to me? Respect is a two way street.
I apologise if I hurt anybody's feelings, no need to apologise to me ill leave it on Allah (swt).
Salam, good intentions,
The fact here is that we have two sisters, pinkberry and onewilltry.
About the comment made by onewilltry, I apologize because I didn´t understand fully her message on brackets.
Related to your comment to Brother Kelvenater, you felt condemn and you felt verbally abused for being called insensitive and to grow up(you said this to sister Pinkberry).
I am not asking you for apologizing for what you think, that is your right to think the way you do, but we have to be conscious that the way we think is our personal way due to our own experience and knowledge and as that is limited. I was asking you to apologize for the way you were referring to Brother Kelvenater.
I don´t see him condemning you, what he is trying to explain to you is, that the world has more sides that the one you are looking at, I understand you say it from your own expectations , your life experience and for what you know about statistics, but sister, statistics are just that, who is going to stop Allah(swt) to bring a virgin man to your door if that is the way to you? I do believe in probabilities and statistics but Alhamdulillah, Allah(swt) has given me the possibility of choosing what I want, I choose to take it and leave on His Righteous Judment if I deserve it or not.
Our Brothers just didn´t realize that you were showing them your own vulnerability and that is why you felt condemn and hurt. Insha´Allah, once they understand they will apologize as I do, nobody here wants to hurt anyone, Alhamdulillah.
The problem, I think is that all of us come from different backgrounds, different cultures, different languages, different life experiences, different vulnerabilities and sometimes it is very difficult to understand each other points of views, without feeling hurt, but in general, insha´Allah, if we try our best being well mannered, we can get to an understanding and insha´Allah, melt all the misunderstandings that could appear during the conversation.
I thank you for apologizing and for bringing to our attention as editors the need of moderating the explicit sexual content of some posts, Brother Wael has been working on it, Alhamdulillah, and he has said the following about the subject: ".. I would prefer that comments on sexual issues not be too explicit and do not describe sex acts and positions in detail. It's just not appropriate for this site. We can offer general advice on these matters, but we are not a sexual counseling service per se, and we need to keep to a certain standard of Islamic modesty."
Sister good intentions, insha´Allah you will forgive me for ignoring (Allah(swt) knows not intentionally) your hurt feelings. I feel sorry for not having been fair with you. For sure, respect is two way street, thank you for reminding me of this, Alhamdulillah.
If you think I am still wrong on something, please feel free to tell me, only this way, Insha´Allah, I will be able to improve.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Asalaam alaykum,
I want to say something regarding the sexual discussions. Masturbation and pornography are a part of our society that is destroying marriages, men, women and children who are increasingly being exposed to both at younger ages than in the past. We cannot ignore the fact that this is happening when so many people's minds, bodies and relationships are being destroyed by this disease. The fact that some people advocate for masturbation and porn outside of religion makes this matter all the more worrisome. Muslims are being affected and we cannot ignore this and I applaud this website for being brave enough to engage this topic.
The other dimension of sex talk regarding marriages is an Islamic scholarly problem that is not acknowledging, in English at least, that married couples have very little Islamic venues to seek information. There are plenty of sexual guides out there, but most of them either talk of haraam acts, condone haraam relationships or have pictures that are pornographic, which makes them a bad source for married Muslims to use.
The few Islamic books out there on the subject which talk openly about some issues are incredibly popular and I have seen them literally snapped up when sold at a place where Muslims gather. However, when I read fatwas or answers to sexual questions by scholars, especially online, there is so much that they leave unanswered and, at times, it appears that the scholars do not know about some subjects, especially including biology and sexual psychology.
I appreciate the call for modesty, but I also think of the fact that helping married people to enjoy expressing their sexuality with each other is a very underrated and neglected part of Islam, and religion in general, though our hadiths glaringly encourage the opposite. Halal means of course, but we should know that Muslims may be led astray in their married sex lives by un-Islamic sources.
I know we get squeamish about some things, but just read about how many problems are there on this website regarding sex and we must admit how widespread it is. The fact that these problems usually involve porn and masturbation that is destroying the marriage bed is a clear indicator that I am more right than wrong.
Having said that, I know that I am accountable in front of Allah (swt) and I often worry that I may say too much, but if it helps a married couple love each other, develop compassion and love by correcting their ills, then I pray that Allah (swt) forgives me.
It's kind of like running into a burning building trying to save someone wherein we may be burned.
I do not know if that analogy is appropriate however, but this issue has been playing havoc on my mind as of late, too.
Sister Maria,
I'm not saying that she isn't a technical virgin in the respect that her hymen may still be intact. But the fact that someone considers them self a virgin while having oral sex is a bit warped, in my opinion. The fact that she engaged in oral sex, for many people, makes her sexual experience a non-virgin act and thus, it will become irrelevant for some that her hymen may be intact or she avoided penetration of her privates. Young women have been duped by their fornicating partners by the "still a vaginal virgin" manipulation and use oral sex as a means of getting sexual reciprocal lust from her.
Not to mention of course, that any partner engaging in oral sex can contract a STD. On that basis is where a significant line gets drawn for many people. Simply put, if you engaged in a sex act where sexual fluids or organs were touched by either party as a means of causing the other's sexual arousal and orgasm, either person's claims to 'virgin by technicality' are dubious.
Many miscreant males have been manipulating young women this way. I only wish to bring it to awareness among the youth here as to avoid this trap altogether.
BTW, I had drawn my observation on onewilltry's post
And not the original posting.
Salam, Brother Professor X,
I am sorry, now that you mention it, I know what she meant, I didn´t know it before, of course, this is having sex and I agree with what you commented. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Good to hear from you Professor X.
Firstly I apologise for creating confusion here. When I wrote "someone had touched his girlfriend's face", I meant a kiss and not O***S** (I was discomfited to type that word).
Secondly, I know that a brother shouldn't be having a girlfriend. I just put the point here to show that there are people in much MORE turmoil for COMPARATIVELY smaller things. Seriously.
Thirdly, the two points stated by me were just SUGGESTIONS. I never asked the person to forcefully think over them and put it in life. If the person can feel better by them, good. Else, theres always other advice here, masha-Allah.
Thank you
Certainly, sometimes, it is really difficult to understand some comments, better to read what is written and don´t think beyond it, insha´Allah, Allah(swt) forgive us all.
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Walaykum salaam onewilltry,
Masha'allah that your modesty of innocence is to such a degree to not type 'kiss', though the innuendo led me astray because of the (but worse) comment. I've been in this world too long 🙁
Other than that, I didn't have a problem with your comments, actually.
This internet will be the end of us all. 🙁
You are a virgin so you have full right to reject some one who is not equal to you in that regard .
People will tell you to get over it but you don't really have to follow them . There is absolutely no sin on you if you reject him solely for this reason .
You have a right to marry a virgin . Don't let people's comment influence you .
Salaams pinkberry sister,
I agree with Kelvenater
men question this just has women have a right too!!
This guy was honest surely that should be taken into account. If you really love him you can pass this with trust and respect. Sister we living in a world people lying too much and they don't have fear, wouldn't you want to be with someone who was honest from the start and valued you has a woman, rather than marry some guy who don't appreciate you or have respect for your family. I know exactly what you are saying and feeling because it is was very hard for me to except such things in marriage proposals, some guys will have past and we haven't BUT the only merciful and greatness is allah and that wrong doing should be left to allah to judge. I learnt to pass this issue because we are living in a society that has become normal for this disgusting behaviour. This has left a lot of brothers and sisters questioning this issue and means a lot to them that most just cant find there husband or wife's due to not get pass the issue of ones past. But you has a woman you need to be strong, clear minded and forgive because forgiveness makes you a better person for the good deeds we have to do. Everyone isn't going to be like you everyone have different needs, habits, likes, dislikes, expectations etc.
I leave you with something to consider;
If his past is really bothering you ask yourself what you want to do, can you see yourself has his wife, will you be able to trust him? Will you love him no matter what?
I hope this helps
As salamu alaykum, sister Pinkberry,
I completely support, brother Kelvenater and brother Lala advices and I will tell you why, insha´Allah.
First of all, I would enfathise what Brother Kelvenator has said to you about being in a haram relationship. Maybe you lack the knowledge that the concept boyfriend/girlfriend is inexistent in Islam, if this man is interested to marry you, his family and him should propose to your family and you, and at that time, you will be able to see each other and talk with the presence of a wali. This is a very brief introduction to it, just in case you don´t know about it.
Related to what you feel towards him, you are having a physical reaction(sick to your stomach) of rejection towards him, there is no way to separate a person from his past once you know about it, unless, insha´Allah, Forgiveness of the past and acceptance of who he is right now helps the seed of oblivion sprout in your Mind and Heart. The body reaction is a red flag, you should listen to your body signs, unless you want to work to be able to forgive, insha´Allah, apart from this, I would advice you to pray Istikhara, you have a link about it on the top of the page.
If you decide you want to marry him, ask him to go to the doctor and have an STD test done, just in case. Nothing wrong with marrying a non-virgin if you decide to do it, but do it right.
And if you decide against marrying him, I don´t see anything wrong to have in your mind as a requirement for your future spouse to be virgin.
Insha´Allah, Istikhara will show you Allah´s guidance.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Asalaam alaykum,
I also wanted to point out that discussing sexual details which your non-spouse is definitely not recommended and is haraam. You need to make up your mind about him, but refrain from discussing sexual history further. This could lead to fornication if you are not careful.
This is one reason as to why people need to stop talking about their past and thus revealing what Allah (swt) has concealed.
People say to not ask the potential mate about their past, if they are a virgin or not. However isn't really important to know because what if the guy had multiple intimacy and u don't know if he is clean from STD or not.
Asalaam alaykum,
STD checks can be done as a requirement of marriage and it would avoid the sex history talk. In some states or localities, it must be done in order to issue a marriage license. I wish it was mandatory all over the world so as to avoid this topic and stop the transfer of STDs to uninformed partners. Just ask for a blood test. beforehand.
This would also let both partners know if there is a cancer in their body that they might knot know of or other health problems. In fact, I think responsible and sincere to-be partners should automatically have one when thinking about getting married to assess their health and as a means of belying these STD fears. So than you for bringing that topic up. A woman could easily make it a requirement of her nikkah.
I think it's fine to ask if someone is a virgin, but I am against sharing sexual details, i.e. how many partners, how many times, the circumstances, etc., as is the case in this original post. When people share or are pushed for details, what exactly is the benefit of knowing that? It just causes a lot of grief, in my opinion.
Some people would lie about their virgin anyways it if was a sin they had committed (not married), and they may be within their rights to do so, if they do not have a disease. I hate to say that, but in the case of men, you can't physically know if they are virgins. And unfortunately, women masturbate, so they may not have an intact hymen either.
To be honest, masturbation has become the new problem causing most sexually related issues in younger people these days. That's quickly becoming the root of sexual problems for married couples.
As salamu alaykum, Sister Tammy,
To get an STD, you just need to be in contact with one person that carries it, then better to do the test as a requirement than having a sickness through all your life and you have to think that even your babies can get. To avoid this painful situation is easy, just making a test.
Here we have had people that had discovered their spouses had given them STD and their children. When the health of other human being is at risk, as it happens with STD, I think it is a duty to have the STD test done.
Some people may get upset for the requirement, but knowing what we know better prevent than crying.
This is just my personal opinion.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
(I am typing this comment here since there was no option for a reply where I wanted to).
Firstly, good point Professor X - about intimacy and Islam. Especially the analogy.
Secondly : to be honest, you do not know whether my "modesty of innocence" is real or if I am faking it to impress others.
Thank you
True, but Islam says to give the benefit of the doubt.
In fact, if I took the narcissistic viewpoint to the extreme, I could counter that we are all non-Muslims. Though I do appreciate the idea of you saying that as a means of the "virgin" debate and being able to manipulate the reaction based on what you say. That was your point, right?
I am being honest, do NOT give me the benefit of the doubt.
Secondly, although your last comment went over my head, a few words touched my hair - to which I am going to reply : I just wanted the person to know that there are people in worse scenarios. The person is in a better situation than others many means. No manipulation done.
Let me know if I missed something or everything, Professor.
Thank you
What I meant by "manipulation" is exactly what you are saying about 'not giving you' the benefit of the doubt. You see, if we carry the narcissistic point of view like this about everybody, we carry suspicions unnecessarily and thus Islam prescribes against this train of thought in our lives. If we constantly suspect and fear everything, we will treat everyone that way, i.e. never being able to trust a potential spouse, especially when it comes to the virgin or 'not a virgin' issue, but more importantly in forming healthy relationships. That was my point.
This is why until said otherwise or informed through the person's actions, we should give the benefit of the doubt.
In my opinion, the potential spouse of this woman (the original poster) should have been more tactful in telling her about his life. He could have said, "I've made mistakes, but they are between me and God." He also could have lied, though only God knows how that would turn out. Yet in telling her, he made a serious mistake in being so detailed about it. Unfortunately, as is the case in so man similar scenarios reported on this website, he should have been more discrete.
Professor, you are right.
But personally, I know brothers who want to say about their past to their potential spouse. Its not that they do not know the ruling behind it. They do. They have read all the questions, suggestions, etc. But their conscience will not let them live happily. (what I am going to type below is about such brothers - NOT those who do not know the ruling behind past sins).
I GUESS this brother might be one of those. If I were to be looking from that brothers point of view, it would be : Better live a happy guilt free life THAN to live a life with even the slightest possible guilt in the subconscious mind. Better to talk and bury the hatchet now and forever.
You might think that - I was the one telling a few hours ago that a person has a clean slate when the repentance is accepted. I still believe it. But some times ones conscience will not get cleared unless they share what they want to with their potential spouse. It is COMPLETELY their call and it CANNOT be questioned.
I appreciate your views on this question - and several other questions that I have read on which you answered, Professor. NOTE : Before you nafs plays any tricks on you, let me clear up something here - I am a brother, not a sister (as was mentioned here by someone).
Thank you
As salamu alaykum, Brother onewilltry,
It was me the one assuming that you were a sister, Insha´Allah you accept my apologies.
Insha´Allah, I am not misunderstanding your words but I think I can answer the last question you did. Our main concern when we answer a post is the person that posted it, but sometimes we get lost, maybe our egos, our own worries, our need to learn, we are human and we get distracted, no excuse for that, it is the way it is, not all of us has the same capability to concentrate on an issue. The person that posted may answer almost inmediately, other times takes some time and some of them never reply, but as said before in other posts, insha´Allah, the information that is posted here maybe useful to some other people too.
Allah(swt) knows best.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor.
Actually I differ in your analysis of the situation of why they say it and it comes down to a two things: males do not understand the female heart. And thus, they are expecting too much from her in revealing something they should not, especially when it comes to the former sexual exploits. I've read posts were the potential female woman was worried about a potential male spouse who had been married and if he had consummated that marriage. Such are the delicacies of the female heart. When man begins to appreciate her outlook, then he will be more inclined to love her accordingly, in return which goes beyond the issue we are discussing here.
It's important to remember that it is not a ruling, but a command from Allah (swt). There is a clear distinction here in deciding what they "think" to know and what is the true reality of what Allah (swt) does know. Allah (swt) covered a sin. Who are they to expose it?
So it is not the conscious per se, but the super ego within the man being unable to fully submit to Allah (swt), which is the second factor. And this is the most crucial, as Allah (swt) lays a burden, who but He can remove it? And if He gives a blessing, who but He gave it? So what the men fail to realize is that and surrender to is the reality of Allah (swt) and lose faith in His covering of the sin, not by conscious, but by the concessionary ego.
These two factors give into his allowance of describing his exploits in detail that a woman cannot stomach and in truth, a man could not tolerate from a potential female spouse. Peruse the posts of women and men who lament the same scenarios in reverse.
Do not get me wrong, there is valor in being honest, but you must know who you are speaking to in turn. Woman is a delicate creature, easily cut in half by words, as is man. Yet man, often times can shut the reality outside, while in general woman cannot.
Of course, we understand that there exists sexual hadiths and recommendations. But discussing your partner's particular exploits is considered highly undesirable for for the reason of confession or sharing in what can be considered trivial matters. The man should be aware that his virgin partner is susceptible to feeling worse when she discovers these things.
In the original post read carefully what the posters says:
Why does she feel this way? Because of his confession and the details of it. Remember that the Qur'an says that the believing men and women are guardians for each other. Is his confession guarding her? In my opinion, no.
Professor, you have made an insightful comment. I agree with most of it. Its not that I disagree with the other parts, its just that I think it depends on the situation. And I do not want to bring up various situations stating my point, etc. Its too much of a hassle and not needed.
I would just like to say that when I mean some brothers want their potential spouse to know of their past - I do not know any one who wanted to give DETAILS. And this is important because you have used the word 'detail' a few times in your comment and it makes a lot of difference. The brothers I know just wanted to give a briefing, or an outer layer, of what they have done with life. If the other person makes up stories inside their mind as to what might have happened, how it might have happened, etc., then it is something which they need to sort within themselves. Which is what this question is mostly about - in my opinion - you do not have to agree at all.
Also, don't you think there is too much being read between the lines. No where above does the person say that the brother had discussed his exploits in detail. So, I think that the benefit of doubt should go to the brother. Its usually mind-playing-games on the person.
By the way, fifty two comments and the main person has not typed any of them.
Thank you
Asalaam alaykum,
You can't have it both ways with exposing sins like this and expecting the other person to brush it off so easily. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. And you can't blame the woman who hears this story by pondering on these things because it is merely her human nature much like man. Most people are like that and trying to turn away from this reality is futile. We can debate the merits of woman's nature which is that of man as well, but not at any time does the reality go away. Again, like I said, people are expecting too much in advance. There is no real commitment, love or trust at this point. There is no marriage. That's another dynamic we haven't discussed, but it's part and parcel to this situation, as well.
Look at the details of what she knows: there were sexual encounters with more than one partner, these women were random and didn't mean anything to him, all the encounters with the women were brief relationships. Therefore, he had no real emotional attachment to them or developed a commitment to them in her mind. These are her words and this hurts deeply. Do not make light of her feelings, because she wants to marry him. This poor girl does not know how to deal with it and reaches out for comfort and guidance.
Why doesn't man appreciate her circumstance and that of women like her? A virgin is a very delicate and fragile being. She has dreams and hopes of a clean husband. This is good and healthy. Now she must deal with giving up those ideas for a reality of a person she is now not sure of. This is why I stress the point of being a "guardian." If a man wants to take care of a woman, from the very start he must treat here well and understand what he is doing with her. He must have faith in Allah (swt) to help him with her. This is a form of submission to God and thus, assuming his role as the Islamic husband.
Now think about what she says in her post and how much women value commitment, trust and longevity in a relationship. Everything he mentioned was too much in this case to expect a woman's natural desires and inclinations to deal with these obvious points of contention. That's why she feels the way she does. That's all the detail a woman needs to be wrecked and honestly, he shouldn't have said any of it. He could have simply said, "I made mistakes and I don't want to talk about it." Why couldn't he be strong in this point and rely on Allah (swt) to secure his needs for the best wife? How much easier would have that been instead?
And this brings about another issue: being unable to trust and confide in Allah (swt) without looking for acceptance of our sins from another human being. Why do we seek meek approval and acceptance from others when Allah (swt) protects us, guards us and will be the only One we ultimately answer to? You see, if we face the fact that everything we do in life is with God consciousness, then we would essentially go quiet for awhile and listen to the people around us. Get to know them, understand them and work our way to Allah (swt) in developing this relationship with his creatures that is a means of getting to Him. But instead, we are seeking temporary approval, temporary acceptance and if I am to be honest, a way of saying, "if you can't accept it, then it's your problem." No. It's the problem of the confessor, as well.
Seek the wisdom behind it and submit to it. Don't share your sins with a person who is susceptible to human nature when Allah (swt) is the Ultimate Listener and Confider. What these men are failing to realize is not that they are failing a woman or she is failing him. They are failing Allah (swt). That is the sad part.
Everything turns back to Allah (swt). From He we come forth, and to Him is our return. Why? Because he is the Source of everything. If we journey through this world by Allah's (swt) adherence, then we please Him, which is the goal.
You see, where the previous religions, like Catholicism went wrong, is by putting man as a perpetual confession role to a man in a robe. Why? They forgot that Allah (swt) is the End of everything. To Him, to Him, to Him. This is what the tragedy of the real situation is," as we are failing Him by not trusting in Him fully.
That's the problem, as the mind is fickle and creates it's own scenarios. We all know this and there is no denying it. Do not blame the person per se. They are imperfect, unable to forget and forgive unlike Allah (swt).
What do we want from our spouse? If you say 'anything,' that is wrong. You must say, I want everything that Allah (swt) gives me in my marriage. And I want the other person to want the same. He is our first love and in Him is this marriage, love and compassion brought to blossom. Without Him or if relegate Him to a secondary role, our marriage is nothing no matter how much worldly acceptance and love we think there may be, because that could die. Yet, a marriage cultivated in the love of Allah (swt) is everything we could ever want.
If people approached life and love this way in every moment, we could move mountains, but we don't.
I know this is pretty heavy to consider, but this is what Prophet Muhammad (saw) had access to in his life. This is why we live and revive the Sunnah, as it is more than just the mechanical practices of our life. Our lives can never be greater than his nor will we ever find acceptance greater than his, and remember he was persecuted through most of his life. What do we think we can achieve in turn? So remove the ego and we can uncover our proximity to Allah (swt). That is the secret to everything.
And that is the secret to love in marriage: abide by Him and eternal love is there.
By the way, I admittedly fall short of my own words and I blame no one more than myself. If I only sought Him, I would never be looking for anything else. If I remembered Him constantly, then I would never forget that.
Maybe the original poster will reply, but at this time we must ask: are we seeking her approval and assurance that we helped her or are we seeking Allah (swt)?
Walaikumussalam Warehmatullahi Wabarakaatuhu
I would like to answer your last comment first. Your last line is again sightful. But after a while of thinking, I realise that words have different meanings to you and me. Sentences have differents meaning to you and me. I guess the environment plays a good role in it. When I said that the main person has not typed any of them - I did not want the person's approval on our comments at all. That thought did not even cross my mind. There are so many points of discussions happening here - I just wanted to know if the person is even reading any of them. In the same way about a point you made on the brief relationships which had no real emotional attachments. I have read at several places that it is COMPARATIVELY easier to forgive those kind of relationships - than those where emotions are invovled. Again, since we come from different places, the weight of this fact can be different for both of us.
Regarding to your other point - yes, we are seeking Allah (swt). But if we wanted, we could do the same thing by Zikr or something. If the persons response is not our concern, then what kind of a help is it?
You other comment makes a lot of sense to me. I agree with a lot of it.
Anyways, I guess I am rambling now and since we are from completely different outlooks, I guess I will stop here.
But good to hear from you again Professor.
Thank you
Walaykum salaam,
Perhaps you read that it was "easier to get over" or to forgive the casual relationship when the discussion it about adultery in marriage? I think that's what you were referring to.
As you said, different perspectives from different people.
The comment about seeking assurance was towards myself, primarily. It was my attempt to excuse my ramblings, in turn. I think we all question, at some point, why in the world are we spending our time trying to advise others when we need so much work on ourselves. I was thinking that perhaps it's our own ego that comes into play, as well. Again, I direct that at me more than anyone.
Though what I am talking about in seeking Allah (swt) is a different level of understanding that goes into every movement and thought in tune with Allah (swt). Perhaps this is the wrong place to interject it, so please forgive me for doing so.
Yes, we should help with our responses, but I was saying not to ponder on if we receive an update, is all.
I think the problem is that black letters on a screen do not convey the proper message or tone of it. I'm sure you have read that body language is about 70-80% of communication, so many things on this site get lost in the translation. I digress.
I think we examined this issue in-depth, however. Insha'llah, we learned something. Allah (swt) forgive us if we interfered too much.
Salam,
My comment is- Well, to let you know I am a virgin as well and if a guy that is really good and has changed wants to marry me and he is not a virgin, that is his past-I will marry him if I am confident that he is a good guy for me. Who are we to judge someone's past? The important thing is how we end our life-whether we die as a Muslim or not, die in Iman or not. It's not the past that matters, its now-the current life. As long as he's done Taubah, it's okay. Sis, please pray Istikharah. Ask God to help you, to guide you in choosing how your life's gonna be. 🙂 People's comment are not gonna mean anything, it is all up to you, how you wanna be. Please pray Istikarah for your own peace. Salam. 🙂
To others: Allah is the most Forgiving. Who are we to condemn people? To say bad things bout him, even Allah can forgive people. We are not perfect, we have sins our self whether we realise it or not, Allah is perfect and He can even forgive people and yet we are nobody and we judge people? Pfft. Shame on you.
Wasalam, Sister Noure,
Please read again the comments, as far as I know, I haven´t seen anywhere anyone saying bad things about the brother and it is not that even Allah(swt) can forgive people, Forgiveness relies on Him(swt) completely as I see it, Allah(swt) knows best. Nobody questions here the dignity of the brother, we just share different views of the situation.
None of us deserve that last sentence, this post has given us the chance to be better human beings, I don´t understand why you said that.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Salaam Sister Maria, mashallah my point is it makes no difference to me if a potential spouse is a virgin or not, as long as he is sincere and has repented. It has no bearing on your locality, human beings are human beings everywhere. I was referring to the higher divorce rate, but the posters assumed I was talking about zina, this they have gauged from their own experiences not what I said. I was just the trigger.
You all assumed, that was the first mistake. My nature is very much tough love when I think it is required, it does not make me a bad person, I appreciate certain aspects of your advice and brother kelveneater's advice on this site, a rainbow has many colours each beautiful but individual at the same time. This demonstrates Allah's (swt) infinite intelligence on this earth.
Brother kelveneater it was not your place to say that I degrade this site, you had no place to judge me, but I accept your apology. If you do not forgive a fellow muslim, then the prophet (pbuh) will not even look at that person's face who refuses to forgive or be offered a drink on the day of judgement. Do not worry I am not scared or intimidated alhumdolillah, I am made of tougher stuff and dont fear anyone except Allah(swt).
Sister Lala, the hadith was taken from a book called Provision for the seekers, a manual of Prophetic hadiths and commentary. I have typed the information for your reference;
BACKBITING IS WORSE THAN UNLAWFUL INTERCOURSE ( Bayhaqi, Shu'ab al iman)
This narration continues with the companions asking the messenger of Allah why backbiting is more severe. Allah's messenger replied that the person who fornicates is forgiven by Allah if he sincerely repents, but the one who backbites is not forgiven until the person he transgressed against forgives him.
Another reason for this is that unlawful intercourse is normally recognized by the fornicator as a serious sin, hence there is a greater chance of him turning to Allah (swt) and repenting. On the other hand, a person who backbites does not normally realize the seriousness of his sin and takes it lightly, hence he does not stop and repent (Mirqat al-mafatih 8:610).
This is what I have been taught on an aalim course taught by learned scholars in Islam and is my limited understanding. May Allah ( swt) forgive me if I have misquoted or misinterpreted what the Prophet (pbuh) said during his life.
Its a shame that alot of Muslims do not understand their faith fully and make no conscious effort to rectify this.
If anyone can counter this hadith, then inshallah please let me know as I am keen to correct myself.
Walaykum as salam, Sister Good Intentions,
Thank you very much for answering.
There is something that attracts my attention in your comment, something I had been thinking on the last year, from my personal point of view, the rainbow has infinite colours, and as you said all of them different one from the other...just sharing a thought.
May Allah(swt) guide us towards His closeness all the steps of our way. Insha´Allah.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Ameen Sister and I pray that you, the editors and advisors reap the rewards of your efforts and intentions.
May Allah(swt) shower his blessings and mercy your way and guide us away from wrong doing. May we appreciate and accept the differences amongst us. Peace out, wasalaam.
Ameen. Thank you for your prayers, masha´Allah.
Wasalam,
María
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
I was thinking about this post and wondering why it diverted to such the degree that it did, and I say that considering I shared in a very good part of the distraction. Was there a solar flare affecting us all or is it that this topic just ignites such emotions so readily. Are we being mindful of the poster?
Only two days have passed and this racked up over 50 responses. Maybe our egos are too blame?
I guess everyone has their opinion and view, and when it is countered by another, or another view is misintepretated such as in the above case, we get a bit defensive and emotional, but i dont think its ego, more passion and belief in our responses i guess, which is good in these times people are still on their deen and still showing their stregnth in it, may Allah guide us all to the right path. Ameen
Insha'allah
The difference revolves around some basic questions about this verse:
Is this verse a statement of prohibition, a statement simply condemning that act while not prohibiting it or a statement of fact?
Is the meaning of the word "nakaha" here the marriage contract, the actual physical relation or both?
Based on the previous point, is the prohibition mentioned in the last portion of the verse about the act of fornication itself or about marriages between such people?
Clearly, the safest position with regard to this verse is to understand the work "nakaha" with both of its meanings: i.e., the marriage contract and the physical act between man and woman. Understood in this way, the verse is clearly a strong warning to the believers against undertaking a marriage relation with an unchaste woman who has not repented or a man in a similar condition. Clearly, if they repent then this verse does not even apply to them since repentance wipes out what came before. Let's see what a couple of sholars of tafsir had to say about the above verse:
"The condition of most fornicators is that they do not desire marriage except with a fornicator like themselves. The intention here is: sternly warning the believers against marrying fornicators after they have just been sternly warned about staying away from fornication and adultery (in the previous verse). This is the opinion best supported by the evidence. {and that has been forbidden to the believers.} i.e., the marrying of fornicators or associationists - because of the intensity of resembling the people of corruption and opening the door to accusation and because of the possibility of having a child which is not his. Thus, it is not lawful for the chaste Muslim man to knowingly marry an unchaste woman nor for a chaste Muslim woman to knowingly marry an unchaste Muslim man." Zubdatu At-Tafsir min Fath Al-Qadeer, p. 457
"This is a clear statement of the lowliness of fornication and that it drags down the reputation of its doer as well as one who pairs with them or intermingles with them in a way that no other sin can. So Allah informed us that the fornicator is not desired in marriage except by a fornicatress - whose condition is similar to his - or one who associates partners with Allah who does not believe in the resurrection nor reward and punishment and who does not abide by Allah's laws. And likewise the fornicatress: none marries her but a fornicator or an associationist. {and that has been forbidden to the believers.} i.e., it has been forbidden to the believers to marry a fornicator or a fornicatress.