Is our generation becoming more open-minded about sex and dating?
Just because other people do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Hello people,
I'm a non-Muslim guy, in a relationship with a Muslim girl for a year now, and we did zina while not being married. She came to me several times, I went to her country several times. I met her mom, even she knows, and approves that I am seeing her every now and then (she doesn't know about the zina of course) and it all feels good, we are serious about this relationship. Thinking about marriage yes. She is a great person, very dedicated muslimah, except for the (many times) zina we did. She is a strict muslimah, but she says it's ok..
Can she still be a good muslim? I'm willing to convert, can our marriage still be valid?
Also, I observed a lot about the arabic culture, and through her, I gained a lot more insight and respect for Muslims and Arabic culture in general. I admire the dedication and positivity I see in Muslim people, my girl just shines with happiness, and she makes me want to be a better man too.
But I also see that we are not the only ones doing this; A lot of young people are dating and exploring their body/sexual feelings. They hide it for their parents/family untill it feels serious enough to make it public. Guys dating girls, also girls dating guys from abroad or from their own country, having special houses (away from their parents) to commit zina when they like, or doing it secretly in a deserted place. They tell their parents they will work in a different city for a few days, while they just go to their lover.
Of course this is a huge sin, but it happens more than people think. Young people are like that, they want to try things! While dating, they call their boyfriends their "fiancee", even when there are no wedding plans, because you can't be together just like that.
I have talked about this with several guys, it seems that this just happens out there. Will the newer generations be strong, or is the mentality of the youth (secretly) changing?
I know it's a sensitive subject, but I think it's worthy to discuss, I am curious of people's opinion about this.
sunman
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Your message has arrived successfully. However, if you are truly concerned about the newer generation being stronger, then you should change that which is within yourself first, and then avoid involving others into deviation--by this way, you have also helped in making the newer generation stronger.
I am in accordance with issah .. Well i am a new generation and i could see where you are coming from , probably u met this arab girl in ur university or workplace in abroad and that is how whole story filled with vice started. I am from newer generation 25 years old tall , handsome , muscular and finished my ENgD ( doctor of engineering) in biomedical engineering from university of strathclyde . And i am proud to say i am a virgin and despite i could easily get hundreds of chances to get laid but i didn't , i had limited friends because of my habit of "promotion of virtue and prevention of vice" allah swt has given me everything from beauty to wealth but i never used it in wrong means in fact there are many people like me and indeed much better .
Your problem is as issah highlighted that u covering up ur sins in the name of other. Your girl friend cant be a better muslimah because she never think zinah as a big sin and allah said several times in Quran not to even go near zinah. From the first meeting which starts with hand shake then hug and then to bed .
Devil wants to annihilate muslims because he knows that we are on right track and as salahuddin ayyubbi rightly said that to destroy any nation make adultery and nudity public!
Hope u stop having zinah with her and satisfying ur carnal desires.
Assalaamualaikam
Different societies and cultures have different values and ways of living - and in pretty much every one of these, you'll find people who choose to go against "the norm" for their society. This isn't a new thing. If you look through history you'll find that people have been doing this for a long, long time: some people choose to behave in a way that goes against what they would be expected to. One of the changes in recent times is that it's more common to be open about these choices and to go find others who share the same values and lifestyle.
Islamic guidance on sex and relationships is clear. It was established in the Quran and Sunnah. That hasn't and isn't going to change - Islam is timeless and perfect, so the guidance given over 1000 years ago is as relevant today as it was then.
Humans have free will, and part of our test in this life is to keep to the straight path (Islam) rather than allowing ourselves to be led astray either by others or by our own desires. If someone chooses to ignore guidance because it isn't what they want to hear, that doesn't mean that the guidance isn't correct. For example, if a child asks their mum "Can I eat all the cookies in the cookie jar instead of dinner?", the mum will (hopefully!) say "No" - the child won't be happy about this, but it is better for the child to eat dinner rather than a load of junk food.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
I go with Isaah, Nabeel and midnight moon. You please stop doing the sin in the name of the lady. She cannot be a good Muslim at all in every sense.
OP: She is a strict muslimah, but she says it's ok (to do Zina).
What do you mean by strict Muslimah? Does she wear a burqa?
Internet and cell phones have made is easier for people to meet. Many young Muslims date secretly in Western countries. Social media, chat rooms are used to make contacts.
Why is it whenever someone posts a question, all you do is ask further questions? Ive noticed all you do is ask further questions about the post
Agree. Seem to ask very personal questions and SELDOM says anything to help the poster sometimes blatantly destroys hope that the OP has. I was wondering why Editors have not noted or admonished this unhealthy behavior.
You don't need to know very intimate details from(I am not talking about this instance) the poster if you were sincere about helping them. The sunnah has been to not probe too much about their sin to give them naseehah
I don't know!! Other then too much probing ,I like SVS style and have leaned some good lessons from his short and deep answers, or we can say questions .
For instance OP said his GF is strict muslimah but to her Zina is OK.
Usually hijabi women are taken as strict Muslims .
No strict muslim on the face of earth will say zina is ok . Even a week muslim will think in his heart at least that Zina is WRONG !
Here OP who is non muslim has a notion that zina is not right but muslim GF is saying it is ok.
Non Muslims should not learn religion from these kind of Muslims. It's ok to learn good attributes of personality from them but not the religion.
Salam,
I know SVS style is always asking question to OP, but i find his/her questions to be helpful rather distration of the topic. None of the OPs are required to answer his questions, but atleast it gives them another view of thinking.
I have learned many good things by reading his posts and his suggestions to OPs, so i would think that it is helping some people and maybe not helping others.
Regards,
AquSis.
Hello sunman,
Firstly, I am not a Muslim. I am a Western lady living in Australia. You, on the other hand, are a young 25 year old non Muslim male in a sexual relationship with Muslim Arab girl. The difference is: you see each other in person for sex.
Myself, I am in a sexual relationship with a man from Amman, Jordan. But, ours is via Skype. He is 63 and Muslim and I am 57 and a Christian. And, yes, IT IS a sexual relationship even though it is via Skype. Cyber sex: whatever you want to call it!!
The point is: Sex has been around for thousands of years and will be for thousands of years more, too. He contacted me via a Penpal site six months ago as he was lonely and has been divorced for the past 10 years and was wanting someone to love again. At the time, I was not looking for a Romantic partner/husband at the time and told him that right from the start. And, no, he does NOT want a Muslim woman. His ex wife lives in the U.S.A. They have 3 grown-up children together. I have 2 of my own as well.
Since knowing him, we have grown to love each other very much. YES, he is more than aware the way in which we met is wrong according to Muslim law!!! So, please don't write back 'preaching' to us!!
He is a very loving, caring and understanding man and I love him dearly. Yes, we plan on marrying but at present, it is not the right time for us to do so because of the way in which we met.
But, at the same time, ISN'T THAT HIS BUSINESS HOW HE MEETS SOMEONE!!! Doesn't concern everyone else!! He prays to Allah 5 times a day like all other Muslims do. He is a human being just like all of us!!
The way in which we met doesn't mean that he is NOT a devout Muslim!! He observes Ramadan - we did not contact each other at all during that time. Other than that, he tries to lead his life according to Islam. I have recently read the Koran myself because I wanted to see what was written in the book. Some things I agree with, but telling people it is OK to behead someone, I don't agree with at all!!! How can a 'so-called' Bible teach that!!
People need to realise that Sex is a very strong 'urge' in a male - much more than a woman sometimes. IT IS wrong if is just for the sake of having 'casual' sex with someone once!! That, I believe IS very wrong!! It is much better than going out 'raping' some poor innocent girl to get your sexual desires met!!!
If it's in a loving, caring, relationship, whether married or not, should not make any difference. Yes, we are both more than aware that is it against the teaching of Islam and the Koran. He has asked me twice if I would consider him a husband. Yes, we are more than aware of the fact there is no such thing as 'dating', in Islam. Just because I am Western doesn't mean that I am 'wrong' with what I say, either!! We all have our own 'views' on things and should be respected by others.
I know the Koran is thousands of years old. But, at the same time, things change as time goes by. Younger people don't always believe in what the Elders teach any more. So maybe, it's time the Koran came into the 21 Century, too. The same applies in Christian society so it's not just Islam.
People may 'follow' what is written in the Koran but that doesn't mean they 'agree' with it though. They do it because the are 'told' that is what they must follow!!
Please, I am not being disrespectful to either the Koran or the Christian Bible - just stating my own views only. After all, I have an opinion just the same as anyone else of this site.
I will probably receive quite a few replies to this with their views as well. That's fine too. After all, aren't we all allowed our own ideas and views on different subjects? That's what makes up this world we live in!!
Cheers,
Carol
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In reply to 'A' who wanted me to tell him/her 'where' in the Koran that mentions 'beheadings'.
The quote is in the Koran 8:12 which follows: "When your Lord revealed to the angels: "I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their head and strike off their fingertip of them." Quoted for the Battle of Badr in the year of 624.
But, as I will be fair to say that it may be 'misinterpreted'. But, how can you misinterpret that!! It may have been quoted for something that happened in 624 but, nevertheless, it is still in the Koran for all to read!!
Even 'radical' terrorists such as ISIS, HAMAS AND ISOR have stated themselves they got their 'so-called' guidance for their recent 'beheadings' of innocent victims, directly from the Koran and that very statement!! To me, they are NOT true Muslims as such!! True Muslims abide by what is written and don't use the writings to kill their own people - namely the innocent people in the Gaza Strip, Syria and Iraq!!
But, please don't get me wrong, either!! I very much enjoyed reading the Koran and what was written in it.
There are so many 'good' Muslims out there who try and follow the Koran and its teachings. The majority are hard-working and provide for their families.
We can't 'blame' all Muslims for the terror that is around the world at present. There will always be some kind of terrorism, somewhere, throughout the world and all we can do is try and iradicate it as quickly as possible.
We only have a very small planet so why can't we 'share' it and learn to live in peace.
Not everyone will agree with my views, such is life!!
Cheers,
Carol
Dear Carol,
The ones who terrorize others and commit atrocious crimes against humanity in misinterpreting the quotes as you have done have more in common with your thinking than the average Muslim or Prophet Muhammad SAWS. I am sorry, but you must be very careful of propagating this type of thinking with giving zero history or context of the situation. I suggest that you do more research before you continue to misinterpret the verses of the Quran in this way. The irony of your thinking is that you suggest that others are rigid in their thinking, yet you are not willing to see beyond your own rigidity and see the verse to its depths and instead you continue reiterating that "how can it be misinterpreted".
My response to your statement is:
Al-Quran [8:61]
"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing."
and
Al-Quran [5:32-34]
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
I am not a scholar, and I don't believe you are either so it is best we both continue our studies in greater depth. Take a look at this next verse:
Al-Quran [4:43]
"O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving."
If we applied your "logic" of interpretation to the above, one could easily and falsely suggest that a person may become intoxicated so long as one is not approaching prayer! Clearly Muslims are forbidden to drink alcohol or take any drug that would make them lose their senses. So please, there is history to the verses of the Quran and when spoken out of context, without history, without education, without an open heart and mind, they can be very easily be twisted.
Finally, if you choose a way of life, then understand that that is your choice, but it doesn't mean that it is correct. You have written above: "So maybe, it's time the Koran came into the 21 Century, too." Muslims happen to believe that the Quran is revealed by Allah swt and is not created by humans--so would not the Creator of humans and of all things no know what life would be like in the 21st Century? The Quran tells us that the moon has reflected light [25:61], that the behaviour of an embryo is leech-like [23:14], the earth is egg-shaped [79:30], the planets are moving in orbit [39:5], two-types of adjacent water that do not mix [55:19-20], and the list goes on and on. Forget about the 21st century, the Quran speaks the secrets of the Universe before any science could verify it...and that is because it is the word of our Creator.
The Quran is timeless. It doesn't belong for a day that has passed or the one that we presently live in or for the day that is yet to come--it is for all days...it is simply that we don't have enough to days to understand it to the lengths it is deserving of, SubhanAllah.
May Allah guide us onto the straight path and give us all wisdom especially in that which we struggle with, Ameen.
Carol, first of all that is not what it says. It says, "Strike at their necks." So someone is mistranslating it, either mistakenly or on purpose. Secondly, that verse is referring to the battle of Badr, when the nascent Muslim state fought against a vastly larger army of polytheists who were bent on wiping them all out, after they had already driven them out of Mecca, and tortured and killed many of the Muslims. It is basically saying, when you face an oppressive enemy, fight fiercely and do not be afraid.
That verse has nothing to do with killing civilians, which is strictly prohibited in Islam.
As for terrorism, don't follow the hype, and don't let your thinking be manipulated so easily. Certainly it is barbaric to cut off someone's head. But it's far more barbaric and terroristic to drop bombs that kill thousands, and to use drones to destroy schools and wedding parties. Occupation of someone else's land in order to steal their resources is barbaric. Supporting dictators in the Muslim world is barbaric.
This post is not about these subjects. So let's not get off track please, and let's end this discussion here.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Carol,
I think the difficulty that you are having with the responses, as am I, is that most of the responders are young people who can't understand why Muslims don't just wait for marriage.
Don't get me wrong - I fully endorse Islam's restriction on pre-marital sex. However, you are in your mid-50s and I am in my early 40s. I know what it is like to never have an intimate connection with the opposite sex. It gets pretty hard, once your 20s then your 30s go by. By the time you are middle aged, it is pretty difficult to say "oh just wait for marriage." But most of the people on this site are in their 20s so they don't see the struggles that older virgins have.
Your boyfriend probably found it hard to go cold turkey after he was married. As human beings, we need intimate companionship. It is just how we are wired. But muslim cultures do not honour that - since the 1960s, there has been rampant immigration of muslims to non-muslim countries for reasons only to "seek out a better life" - but the result is that the progeny of those adults who immigrated are left with almost no options for marriage in a non-muslim country -- ESPECIALLY women. I'm not sure what our parents and grandparents were thinking when they decided to move to Europe/North America and raise their children their. Surely they knew our chances of marital life and having children of our own would be slashed in half. But what happened happened. Now, of course, people immigrate for other reasons such as war, drought etc. But that is a relatively recent phenomenon.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is very easy for young muslims, married muslims, devout muslims to pass judgement on muslims for whom marriage is not possible but who nonetheless wish to have a connection with the opposite sex. When you are in your 20s, it is pretty easy to put those desires aside while focusing on your education and career. But by middle age, when your non-muslim companions, neighbours, and co-workers are ensconced in marital and parental relationships, as muslims we are very, very alone. So the urge to find an intimate connection becomes that much harder to resist.
Again, I wish to reiterate that I don't endorse pre-marital sex nor do I have any intention of engaging in it. But God is merciful and there are situations where an individual may find it extremely difficult to remain chaste and lonely for their entire adult lives.
Hi Carol,
I deleted what I wrote because I realized it was not relevant to the issue at hand. But I am glad that Br. Wael pointed out that the original Arabic does not say "strike off their heads." This is a mistranslation. If you are unsure about the meaning, you can ask people who know Arabic.
In any case, you and your Jordanian friend are obviously free to carry on as you see fit. As someone familiar with Jordan and its culture, however, I wanted to tell you that this person's behavior is very unusual for a man of his age. Most men this age in Jordan spend their time in the mosque or buying vegetables or visiting with their friends. Most men of this age in Jordan have been through war and other hardships, and by the time they are in their 60s, they know that death is fast approaching as most of them almost certainly have friends of the same age who have already passed away. Most men of this age don't know how to use the computer, much less set up a Skype connection for cyber-sex.
When a man in Jordan feels lonely, it is pretty easy for him to get married. I have seen many widowed men in their 60s getting married to women in their 40s and 50s. It is not hard at all. Getting married is the proper and accepted way for a man to fulfill his desires in this society. The fact that he turns to the Internet for sexual fulfillment is really kind of gross and disrespectful of you, the woman he does it with. I also would not be surprised if he does the same with other women since it sounds like he has a lot of free time on his hands, and I sincerely hope that he is not recording you on camera for other, more sinister purposes.
You said that you do not want people preaching at you, and that is fine, but since you felt compelled to mention your involvement with this person, I think it is only normal that someone might have a reaction. As a sister in humanity, I sincerely wish better for you. "Better" exists, but I don't think you will find it with Muslims who engage in cyber-sex. The Qur'an places limits on male-female relationships for a reason. This is not something outdated but actually very relevant to modern times.
Hi 'A',
Firstly, I am sorry if what I wrote was wrong but it was not meant that way at all. If I knew 'how' I would delete my previous post also.
Even the Christian Bible has scriptures that have been misinterpreted, too.
That doesn't mean that I don't respect the Qur'an or the Bible. Far from it!!
It is not for you to decide whether I 'do' or 'do not' have a place in Muslim society because of the cyber-sex. People can change. There are other Muslims who engage in that too. So, are you going to say the same thing of them?! But, I do respect your advice, none the less.
With regard to the man I am skyping - he DOES NOT want a Muslim woman to marry. He was married to one for around 30 years or more but is now divorced. She lives in the U.S.
To make it a bit clearer - we do not engage in cyber-sex every waking moment like field rabbits either - yes, I know you never said that. He is more than 'aware' that what he is doing is wrong in the eyes of Allah. He prays for forgiveness all the time for that. That will be up to Allah to judge, nobody else.
It may only be twice a month, if that. The majority of the time we just talk about every day life - in-between his ritual 5 daily prayers at the local Mosque - 15 minutes walk from his home. He always tells me when he has to go and 'wash' before he goes and prays. He has his own life to lead in the meantime and I have mine as well.
Yes, he does spend time with his friends, attends Weddings, fixes his car, goes to lunch, shopping, spends time with his family - he also has a son in the Jordanian Air Force that comes home fairly regularly and spends as much time with him as possible. I would not expect anything different!! He spends far more time with his friends than with me - which he should!
Believe me, if I thought for 1 minute that he was using me as part of some sinister sex thing - I would drop him like 'hot cakes!!' He 'trusts' me and I 'trust' him implicitly. There is no question about that whatsoever!!
Don't always assume that 'oldies' have no idea how to use the computer, either!! It doesn't take a 'genius' to set up Skype! Anyone can do that with a brain in their head!! I set my own up and, gee, I'm an 'oldie' at 57!! I find it insulting that you seem to think that 'oldies' are that senile we don't know how to do things!!!
The 'Older' generation - Muslim, Western, etc. are much more active nowadays than 30 years ago!! They don't just sit back and grow old as the younger generation seem to think we should be doing!! Far from it!! Just think, when you get to 'our' age, you'll think the same thing!! I don't class myself as being 'old', thank you very much!!
You stated: "The Qur'an places limits on male-female relationships for a reason. This is something not outdated but actually very relevant to modern times" end quote.
If that is the case, then why, and you only have to look at a lot of these Q&A sites, to see that a lot of the younger Muslims do, and have, engaged in pre-marital sex & cyber sex, to know that!!
He is a 'decent' man, no matter what you think of him. Please don't judge someone that you don't 'know!' We know each other very, very, well!!
Cheers,
Carol
Carol: With regard to the man I am skyping - he DOES NOT want a Muslim woman to marry. He was married to one for around 30 years or more but is now divorced. She lives in the U.S.....To make it a bit clearer - we do not engage in cyber-sex every waking moment like field rabbits either - yes, I know you never said that. He is more than 'aware' that what he is doing is wrong in the eyes of Allah. He prays for forgiveness all the time for that.
Did he say why he does not want to marry a MUSLIM woman? It is nice your b/f is aware that what he is doing is wrong in the eyes of Allah and he prays for forgiveness ALL THE TIME for that?
How long you have been friends with him?
Hi SVS,
Thank you for your question.
Finally, someone who is not on here 'judging' what we do!!
Not aimed at you by the way, but this is a quote from one of the verses in the Christian Bible: "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone!"
In reply, we have known each other for 6 months. I did not, originally, want any relationship at all at the beginning. He contacted me via a Penpal website which is just for that - penpals only!!
But, after about 3 emails to each other I realised that he was much more than just a Penpal. He was very lonely and wanted someone to just talk to which has grown into something much more (I don't mean the cyber sex, either!!) We are much more than that!! That is such a 'minor' part of it!!
He has asked me twice if I would consider him a husband. My answer is always yes. But, he has also stated that it is complicated for him because of the way in which he contacted me in the first place. The main point is that we make each other happy. I admire him so much as he does consider his Muslim upbringing first!! Whatever decision he makes, I will abide by it.
He has also asked me to come over to Amman, to meet him. But, I have also stated that is impossible as I can't afford that at present. He has also said that he is considering visiting me here. I am more than aware - so is he, by the way, that there is 'no such thing' as dating or boyfriend/girlfriend in Muslim.
How on earth are you supposed to 'get to know' someone first!!
To your 2nd question:
He does not want a Muslim wife for the reason that his first wife, through no fault of his own, decided that she did not want to be a Muslim wife any more. He says her 'attitude' and 'values' changed so much that she did not want to be part of the marriage any longer. Their children were wondering 'why' their Mum felt that way. The children are the innocent ones who suffer in the long run. I think he still feels 'hurt' in a lot of ways too.
Yes, he could have just married a 2nd wife and still keep the first one. But, he says he prefers 'one' wife at a time.
So, I hope I have answered your questions. If not, you are more than welcome to ask more questions, if you wish.
Cheers,
Carol
Dear Carol,
You have written "Finally, someone who is not on here 'judging' what we do!!" and "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone!" while no one here has claimed that they are sinless. Sister, we all have sins, big and small. In fact, I wrote to you that engaging in sins and then discussing it openly as the OP mentioned some Muslims are doing is not proper.
Allah says in the Quran [3:104]
"And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful."
This, being an Islamic site, where the OP, even though non-Muslim, has asked his question in the light of Islam. The OP even acknowledges that relationships outside of marriage is a huge sin--but wants to know what Islam says about this.
Some of us may judge your actions and/or the actions of you bf as you have openly discussed them. In fact, I think it is naive of you to disclose personal details of your life and then in an overbearing way, ask no one to judge you even though you show no regret for those actions. I understand that you are not Muslim and that you bf doesn't want to be married to a Muslim woman again, but how is stating all of those things going to win you sympathy in any way? I fail to understand what your point is or what you have to gain by disclosing your personal choices in hopes to gain understanding. If you are content with your decision, you have nothing to worry about or prove to anyone.
Finally, the both of you have met online and online relationships tend to be very shady. Putting religion aside for a moment, from one human to another, I think you ought to be careful for your sake and if not that, then at least don't promote the idea of finding someone in another country is safe and great as impressionable naive people may think this is a great way of meeting someone, when it really isn't with very very few exceptions.
Dear Saba,
We could sit here all day quoting verse after verse from the Qur'an and the Bible, and still not get anywhere, too!!
I did not, in any way, discuss what we do in an overbearing way. I was just stating a fact, and I am certainly NOT looking for sympathy, either!! I was simply trying to be honest.
I did not, and have never, asked for sympathy, from anyone, and I am certainly not going to start on this site!! This is purely your interpretation!!
You asked what my 'point' was for stating it on here: The OP asked the question what Islam's thoughts were: I was simply stating that it not only happens to young people but also the 'older' generation, no matter where/how they met in the first place. I was not 'promoting' finding someone on a website at all!! I was just saying that that is the way in which we met. I was looking for a Penpal originally, as I stated. I have several Penpals around the world and they are lovely people.
I am more than aware that finding people on websites can be very shady. FYI, I have already 'checked' out his information and he is a genuine person. There are quite a few ways of finding out if someone is 'who' they say they are. I'm not that stupid!! But, thank you for your concern with that regard.
Have you also said anything to others on this site, who have also committed Zina, according to Islam, via Skype, and pre-marital sex as well. There are plenty of them on here who have!! But, I don't judge them. Allah or God, will do that when the time comes.
I never said I was 'proud' of how we met!! Again, you twist my words to suit.
As of now, I consider this discussion closed with regard to myself and my so-called bf as people call him and the subject matter therein.
I intend to get on with my life and sincerely hope everyone else does the same.
Cheers,
Carol
Dear Carol,
I apologize if I have hurt you with my words that were or seemed judgemental to you. As you were being honest, I was honest with you as well. I am no one to judge you, but I only offered what Islam says, which I do not believe is outdated.
I absolutely do not think you are stupid. I can think of a list of unwise things that I have done in my life--so I don't consider myself above anyone. When we journey through life, we all have our ups and downs and wise and unwise moments.
As for my comments on pre-marital sex, I have made similar comments to others on this site and in no way have I made an exception in my comment to you.
Good day.
A: Most men this age in Jordan spend their time in the mosque or buying vegetables or visiting with their friends. Most men .... in their 60s, they know that death is fast approaching as most of them almost certainly have friends of the same age who have already passed away. ....When a man in Jordan feels lonely, it is pretty easy for him to get married. I have seen many widowed men in their 60s getting married to women in their 40s and 50s. It is not hard at all.
Honor killing may be one thing that keeps some people away from illegal sexual activities in Jordan. Since most of these activities happen indoors away from public eyes, I am sure these things go on. I don't know about Jordan, but in many countries older relatives are involved in sexual abuse big time.
I recently read about a Syrian Opposition Leader who was caught read handed having sex with His Granddaughter. His video is all over the net. Some one was able to make a video because he was doing it in the open.
I just want to share this make readers aware about sexual abuse where age does not matter.
Hi Carol,
I apologize if I did not explain myself clearly in my previous message. I was distracted and was not as precise as I could have been. I actually did not mean to imply that older people are incapable of using computers and technology. I know many who do. My point was really that every society has norms, and it is not normal in Jordanian society for men of that age to get on Skype for cyber-sex. This would be considered deviant. When someone deviates from the norm, you should always ask yourself why. As Muslims, we have a halal (permissible) outlet for sexual activity. It is called marriage. Presumably, someone of this age is able to get married even if he is not wealthy. The fact that he chooses not to is a red flag whether you see it that way or not. In this culture it is a red flag, and no one can deny that. At the minimum, it shows he has poor control over his impulses. At the maximum, he could be seriously deviant. As SVS mentioned, there are sexual predators of all ages, and they obviously do not introduce themselves as such. Arab culture is a very charming culture, and it is easy to be impressed by small shows of refinement or culture. Even deviant people can be polite, cultured, and charming.
Yes, there are lots of young people who engage in the same behavior, and they are not excused. However, I think we can all agree that young people often do not have the same control over their impulses and may lack the ability to understand the future consequences of their actions. Presumably someone in his 60s has reached the age of discernment. That is all.
OP: She came to me several times, I went to her country several times
I am sure she told her mother she was goin to work on a project in your country and you told your parents some thing on the same lines.
How can her mother allow this kind of friendship with a non-Mahram? I have a feeling both of you don't live in a Muslim country.
Have you ever discussed marriage with her?
I would love to be able to say I don't think Muslims have generally become more tolerant of pre-marital relationships. But from what I have noticed, that's not the case at all. It HAS become more common for Muslims to have pre-marital relations. And Muslims HAVE become more tolerant of the idea of marrying someone with a sinful sexual past - "as long as they have repented for it". I personally feel like Muslims use the option of being able to repent as a green light, or as an excuse, to go out there and have relationships before marriage. Afterall, they can just say how sorry they are after the deed has been done. And people will admire them for changing, rather than focus on the fact that they haven't done anything to be admired. I'm not saying people don't deserve 2nd chances at all, but it has almost become an expectation from the Muslim community that sexual pasts are to be forgiven and accepted.
It's actually very frustrating for us who HAVE kept ourselves on the right path, and expect to meet a spouse who has done the exact same thing. Because we rarely meet potentials prospects who can say they will enter a marriage as virgins. It's very disappointing to know you have been on a straight path, and given your future spouse the respect of being a virgin for them, but the other part has not given their future spouse the same respect of remaining chaste and pure for them. Probably because they are of the idea that their sins are acceptable and alright as long as they have repented them.
Precious Star: Your boyfriend probably found it hard to go cold turkey after he was married. As human beings, we need intimate companionship. It is just how we are wired. But muslim cultures do not honour that...
Carol says ".The way in which we met doesn't mean that he is NOT a devout Muslim!! He observes Ramadan - we did not contact each other at all during that time"
Well Carol's b/f is a devout Muslim and they do enjoy sex on skype. I think Muslim men have lot more freedom as far as sex outside or without marriage is concerned.
New generation of young Muslims (especially in foreign countries) is a lot more accepting about sex before marriage. Anything goes as long as it does not break the hymen. Technically they are still virgins.
No. A virgin is someone who has not had any kind of sex. Virginity isn't a matter of an intact hymen. If that was the case then men would not be able to be virgins seeing they obviously have no hymen. You are bo longer a virgin and pure if you have had oral og anal sex.
Hello,
Allah is the ultimate Judge of all people and so He will decide who is good and isn't good. Having said that, no one, being a Muslim, can condone the idea of a relationship outside of marriage. People are free to have their own ideas, thoughts and follow their own will, but none of that changes what Islam or the Quran says about such relationships. You can make your own judgement if she is a good Muslim or a good person, as these two may be different by their definitions and these are not based on our opinions alone.
2ndly, a marriage between you and her will only be valid if you are Muslim by choice and practice it out of your own freewill--meaning, you would be Muslim and follow the Deen of Islam with or without her in your life and that you being Muslim isn't dependent on her being your wife.
Lastly, perhaps our generation is becoming more open-minded about sex and dating, but are the consequences any better? I don't think it is a good idea to make decisions on what other people are doing, so even if this becomes a norm, it doesn't make it right or better or good. It has been suggested on this post that people are free to do what they want and when they want based on their circumstances, but if they choose to do that, then they should understand it is their choice. If you want to follow what Islam dictates, then be clear on that--the problem arises, however, when we identify ourselves as Muslims and start to make exceptions about what we can do.
It is reported:
So, yes, Muslims sin as they are humans. However, openly sinning and being accepting of it is where the downfall begins, more than just sinning. We should avoid the shoreline of being highly judgemental and openly sinning. We should have etiquettes, care, respect, regret, hope, fear, all the mixed and balanced emotions of a real human and real Muslim. We can not only have fear of Allah with no hope OR only have have hope for Allah with fear. Everything comes in a balance. The people that you know that are sinning and hiding it from their families are doing wrong--but worse, they are letting that sin be known to others. They, indirectly, are putting the status of their parents above Allah swt, in terms of fear. May Allah protect each of us from this. Ameen.
All I can say is that what is written in the Quranic scripture, is there and it is clear. It is us, though, that are worried about attaining a taste of heaven on this worldly deceitful earth. It is so challenging to be what we should be, but it isn't impossible either. Whatever we choose to do though, we should be clear on what is right and say that it is right and we should do the same for what is wrong.
May Allah give us all guidance onto the straight path and protect us from the trickery of shaitaan, Ameen.
I will conclude with a good reminder from the Quran [5:100]
Say, "Not equal are the evil and the good, although the abundance of evil might impress you." So fear Allah , O you of understanding, that you may be successful.
Precious Star: I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is very easy for young muslims, married muslims, devout muslims to pass judgement on muslims for whom marriage is not possible but who nonetheless wish to have a connection with the opposite sex. ........, as muslims we are very, very alone. So the urge to find an intimate connection becomes that much harder to resist.
Well young Muslims, married Muslims, devout Muslims can get lonely too and look for friendships/relationships out of marriage. Many people here have asked about advice about what to do about their spouses who are doing cyber, watching porn or having sex with others.
You should not be concerned about what others think about you. You need to do things that please you.
Assalaamualaikam
I'd like to suggest a correction to your last statement: We need to do things that please Allah.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Salam
I posted a Q sometime ago, can one of the editors tell me when it going to become available?
Assalaamualaikam
At the moment, there is a waiting time of about 4-5 weeks between submitting a post and it being published. If your situation is very urgent, please include this information in the post title, so that the editing team can be aware of this.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
If genuine about each other, you should embrace Islam, study it and your partner also should embrace Islam with you. You can repent and spend 6 months without sexual contact during this time, then marry asap. It is a good investment of time and to focus energy on all aspects.