Trying to understand my past… please help?
I have posted here before and got sooo much help. Thank you sisters and brothers.
There are some thoughts still constantly playing on my mind. Somebody here said i could have overactive hormones in my teenage years because of which I acted out. It made me feel strange. I have already asked for forgiveness from Allah so please dont suggest that. I ask him for it even today.
I will ask my question what ails me now and will hope for your help.
I will repeat in brief my history.
I have a severely narcissistic mother. She has always chosen her sons over me and growing up i was ignored by her. Something happened that I could not speak up at all infront of my dad whos much better than mom but enables her emotional abuse or stays silent. He used to beat up my brothers a lot. My mom says maybe i saw that and got scared of him. I feel she made me witness it bcoz he never beat me, i dont know its a mystery. I used to whisper in my moms ears whatever i had to say when dad was around. I was teased a mute girl by relatives.
At 5 I was molested by an uncle for several months maybe years. He would slide hishand inside my underwear.
Age age 10 or 11 my older brother (by 3 yrs) molested me in my sleep several times, maybe 5-6 times and maybe i hve blocked it out so maybe more, I would pretend I am still asleep.
At age 13 or 14 my oldest brother (by 4 yrs) would slide his had down my shirt feel my breasts. Once he asked me to make a moaning sound randomly. Once he tried to hump me with our clothes on. It was humiliating.
I still feel bad that i never stopped these 2 brothers. I feel guilt that maybe I liked it though I remember cringing.
Nobody knows all this. I lost my memories and have very few childhood memories.
I shut down totally with my dad and was open with the mom who now i know is a narcisstic personality.
I told her 2 years back for the first time about the uncle and she called me a bloody liar that will burn in hell.
At around the same age or later (13 or 14/15) I had a street dog that we fed and helped and once when she (the dog) came into my room i remember I exposed myself to the dog just outnof curiosity it happened twice but no contact nothing. I just dontnknow what made me expose myself to a female dog. This part ashames me to the core even tho i was very young.
Then age 16 I started dating a non muslim guy. I wasnt attracted to him. He wasnt goodlooking. I dont know why i was dating him. He was the typical bad boy types.
I clung to him even after my parents found out beat me etc
I kept meeting him secretly and we would get physically close when the opportunity came but I never had sex.
I even remember wanting to go to places where we could get physcially close, it was a huge adventure kind of thing for me meeting him etc bcoz my parents were so against it. I do feel I was giving him my body for the sake of keeping his interest in me because we had been caught once and my mom had told him to back off. But the shame comes to me when i think about how i wouod look forward to those meetings and sometimes be upset if there wasnt such a meet. I remember once he told me to we should go to a restaurant where they have small rooms where couples meet etc (not bedrooms, table n chair) i remember being so excited and meeting him there the very next time. Thats so filthy. Why did i have sexual desire for him. In the year and a half we dated we met secretly only 6-7 times amd other times it was public place meetings.
Anyways got caught again and broke up but even before the break up i had started to get attracted to this other guy in my tuition classes who was very goodlooking . I never dated him. My bf was attracted to another of his friends too. He told my mom everything about this goodlooking guy when I started backing out with him.
After this i was badly beaten up by my dad and sent to a muslim college. Here my mum encouraged me to find a good muslim guy and thats what i did. I was 19. My brother wud pass sarcastic remarks to me about my past sins sometimes how i stepped out of line. My mom never once wanted me to study well etc. My dad was interested in getting me good education.
I was never spoken to about religion, haraam halal, sexuality but thats the norm in India no parents do that.
This second guy was extremely handsome and after the first months of shy love we got close once and I felt like i belonged to him and was several times trying to get close to him phsycally more than he was to me. He turned out to be a handsome jerk and i mentally switched off from him. We dated some 2 years. I never felt any need for phsycial contact once i knew i wont be marrying him. He was very shattered and was very serious but he was a male chauvinist. My mum liked this guy for me and kept encouraging me toward him as she wanted us to get married. She would tell me to do nikaah with him and continue studies. She was upset when i dumped him.
Although it might all sound a lot but from what i remember I was physical with the first guy maybe a total of 5-6 times and the same for the second and it never led to sex.
the moments when it happened were nice but its not like i always thought about it.
I then got married few years later to a good muslim man.
My mom has gotten worse with me since then but thats not the issue.
I am going back and thinking if i was a maniac or i was a normal teenager.
My questions to myself are
1) Does kissing hugging from a guy u r not attracted( but repelled by ) much to also lead u to wanting more physical contact with them? I was 16-17 that time.
3) I dont know why even though the second guy liked me I felt i was more interested in him a couple of times than he into me. I would actually make plans for clandestine meetings. I used to melt in his arms. Why why why was my drive for contact higher than a boy.
All of the above with the 2 guys ended at 21.5 and i was married at 23. So the above makes me sound like such a dirty girl, like filth, suicidal. I cant function well anymore.
Shameful right ?
To add to this i have on some occasions before my marriage and after dumping the muslim guy even touched myself remembering him.
I am now a 37 year old woman. I have kid and a great husband, financial security and am religious now. I pray a lot, if i make a mistake I am quick to rectify by repenting.
Also when I make a mistake now i see a very swift punishment by Allah.
I have been married more than a decade and try to be a good wife, mother and daughter in law.
My parents treated me horribly when my son was born recently.
I was just out of surgery when they fought with me so much for the most silly things and didnt help at all with my postpartum. It made me depressed and now after some years these thoughts are raging at me about my younger years makimg me feel like a @@@@.
Was this all abnormal. Can you dissect the past with me please. I am ashamed to talk about it in details with a therapist or friend. Online feels safer.
Was my mothers emotional abuse and the sexual abuse the reason for all this or was i acting like a normal teen usually does. All this happened 20 years back so we were not like how kids r now...but still this all sounds so forward.
It makes me feel so wierd and guilty.
sana786
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When you exposed your body to the dog, do you remember desiring it sexually or something? Or did you only feel good exposing your body to it and nothing more?
From what I remember it was only meanigless. No desire no sexual fantasy. Thats whats strange it had no meaning.
I hope people who post here will be kind and not push me more into depression
AsSalaamu Alaikum Beloved Sister,
I know brother Issah personally and I can assure you that his intention was not to drive you into depression. He has a very thorough and analytical mind and he was trying to piece something together. Before he could do so he had to confirm his thoughts which were just as you said. There was no attachment at all to the animal.
I understand the act to be a symptom of the problem and nothing more.
Hana
Thank you Hana
To Issah; why does that matter?
Sister sabah,
Actually my question was sincere and intended to understand something deeper for consistency, before tackling the issue at hand. Perhaps people are different in the way they reach solutions to problems.
Sister sana786,
I'm sorry if my question pushed you to more depression. I only wanted to help in some way. Also, I was working and therefore was not able to explain the reasons behind my question. May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala ease your pain sister, Ameen.
Brother Issah I apologize I shouldnt have jumped to any conclusion. Can you help me more please with a longer response. I will be grateful.
AsSalaamu Alaikum Sister,
Alhamdulillah, many of what I could have talked about have been said already below by others. So I'd just add the following, inshaAllah.
Perhaps you allowed yourself for your brothers (and the first boyfriend) because your uncle made you believe psychologically that it was a good feeling to expose yourself or be touched. The root of that feeling was plunged inside you by him, which made you search for it everywhere, as it was open to everything--even though at that age, you knew nothing about sexual desires nor their rules. However, it seems like you started to recognize the normal desire when you were with the last boyfriend, as at that point you were able to identify what you really wanted (love and marriage) in life, and choosing it over what you sexually desired--that was totally a new and exclusive stage of your life, which was different from the other earlier stages. Yes, the sexual desire or drive at this stage was stronger too, but in fact, it was really normal like it is for many other women.
So what happened might be that you left this last boyfriend physically and got married to a different man sooner before leaving him mentally (of course, you thought you left him mentally too, but the truth is that he was stuck somewhere in your mind)--perhaps this is what is causing your confusing today, and making you dig into the stages of your past life.
In summary, I'd say that whatever you allowed before the last boyfriend was normal as in your teenage life, and that you started recognizing the difference between love and sexual desires starting from the last boyfriend.
This is what I think for now about the cause of the problem, but I may be correct or wrong, and Allah knows best.
Brother Issah thank you. Honestly I wouldnhave never thought about it this way.
This makes me feel so much better about myself. You know something and I want you to let me know if I was wrong to think this. I have totally completely minimized the uncle sexually abusing me. When actually his abuse was the most uncomfortable and even painful. I remeber being the little girl I was 4 or maybe even 3 and it continued for longer time. As a naive little girl i wondered why was he doing this. Maybe it was a form of love. I had no idea. I think it stopped much later maybe months or years later I have no idea when I physically pushed his hand away.
When i told my mother about it 2 years back she called me a liar who will be going to hell for lying against an innocent man. So I gave up.
Going back to my head. Yes that abuse my uncle's abuse I always thiught that coukdnt have any affecton me because I was tooo little to even comprehend it. If I dont know what happened how will it affect me.
Years later after puberty I noticed somethung different in my anatomy ( sorry for being so open about this but i have only you all here that have understood me islamically and with compassion) I realized years later that the different thing was actually a normal thing but at that time at 13 or 14 I so badly wanted to tell my mum that this uncle had done this to me and now I see something different there and I am worried but I just couldnt tell her. I remember once I almost said Mom..and stopped just stopped myself from blurting it out.
One more thing that has happened which I have blamed only the brothers abuse for is that I could not have sex for almost a year with my husband. I froze. I could never spread my legs for gynecologist visits ( lady docs)
I just froze and cried and pushed their hands away. I never chalked it down to abuse.
I know you didnt mean it that way but I want to say I never allowed myself for my brothers. It was just that one instance where I moved.
When I go online and read about sexual abuse by older sibling I am told that if the sibling is 4 years or more older then its sexual abuse otherwise its incest.
I am wondering if what my second brother did to me at night coming to my room while I am asleep was not abuse after all. He is exactly 3 years older and the oldest brother is 4 years older than me ( short by 3 months)
I would like to label all of this as abuse because these boys did something filthy to their little sister.
What you have said about finally understanding what is real attraction and love compared to meaningless attachments and hook ups makes sense to me. The last guy was the one i was attracted to, same religion etc. I remember thanking Allah for sending him in my life because i was so in love with him at some point.
I did get married without totally moving on even though I ended the relationship with him he was still in my mind. Its true.
Brother Issah, does it come across like I made myself available to my brothers?
Maybe yes to thenfrst boyfriend. The problem is I blame myself even if it happened bcoz of the forst abuse at 5 years old. I mean i dont have any memories of making mysekf available to them. When my second brother would molest me he thot I was asleep. I would pretend to stay asleep out of embarassment and it was not enjoyablenor anything. I was 11 or so I think. So young that I had no idea the first few times . I think it stopped when in my childishness I once opened my legs (fully clothed) when came to the room. He quickly realized what he was doing messing up a child and I think he neverncame back after that. Or maybe he finally knew I wasnt asleep all those times.
The second brother I was older maybe 13 or 14 or maybe even 15 i cant recall but that was just one instance.
AsSalaamu 'Alaikum my dear Sister,
It's very nice to know that you are feeling better about yourself gradually. May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala be with you throughout this relief. Ameen.
I don't think it would be a good idea to minimize what your uncle did while concerned about the other situations. Things need to be put up together or to be joined to their roots in order to see the answers clearly.
Your parents were wrong to abuse you emotionally or psychologically. They made you feel uncomfortable to speak out, otherwise the problem could have been taken care of during your childhood. However, I am glad and appreciate that you are able to talk with us here about it, and we hope that inshaAllah you will continue to feel relieved gradually. May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala help you and us all. Ameen.
Actually what I mean by "you allowed" in the case of your two brothers is that, you were curious and didn't feel like stopping them. Your first brother's situation doesn't seem much different from that of your last brother's, because in both situations you were awake. What seems different is that, with your last brother, the both of you were doing it openly with each other, which came across as a teenage play--you found him less-harmful to you and therefore felt nothing wrong was happening at that time. Honestly, many teenage (both boys and girls, in such situations, including myself) will feel the same way as you felt, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Because in our teenage lives, we don't really know what resistance of wrong actions really is. Allah is very aware of our teenage way of thinking, and therefore He forgave us (out of His Mercy and Care for us) until we become complete adults and then start to be judged by our actions.
This should be enough for now, my dear sister, inshaAllah. Please feel free to ask when you have more questions ok. Your sisters and brothers here will be happy to assist you, inshaAllah.
Thanks Brother Issah for.saying Allah forgives teenage sins Inshallah.
I am still not okay with calling what happened as 'teenage play'
I believe it was classic molestation that my brothers did and maybe in a naive and weak moment I moved at.some point.
Teenage play makes the whole.thing feel.and sound.wrong to.me.because I.did not invite it:-(
From what I have read many victims.pretend to be asleep.and many of the victims do not tell so.me being awake didn't matter brother Issah did.it?
My older brother and I were not doing things openly he chose times when I was alone and came.and did what he wanted to. I.didnt yell.and push him away but that's what happens in many such situations.
I really like your insight and appreciate help about mmy.entire situation but then you called this teenage play it takes away the from.the abuser and that I can't agree with. Even if.i.was.a.11 year old or a 13,14 year old calling it teenage play just because I was awake shifts the blame.to.me AND my brothers (and not just them)
AsSalaam Alaikum Sister,
I think what needs to be clarified is that I wasn't evaluating what happened as a whole, nor was I justifying your brother's action. I was only saying what you felt it was at that young age. You didn't think he was abusing you at that time, did you? Why? Perhaps because he seemed less-harmful to you at that time and was your brother too, so things looked to you like you were playing with a brother who loved you, and who was supposed to be as a protector to you. Of course, when we come to evaluate your brother's actions alone and the whole story while considering the ages involved, then that would be a different story.
hope this clarifies my point, inshaAllah, and Allah knows best.
So my point was actually a response to your question regarding why you couldn't stop him at that time--you couldn't stop him because you felt you were both playing, and it made sense why you felt that way.
When I mentioned the teenage play, I didn't connect it to the situation in which you pretended you were sleeping, but to the way you (i.e you the victim in particular) felt in the other situation where you were not in your sleep.
Thank you brother Issah but can we term what they did as sexual abuse/molestation?
It would depend on the reality of what the word "abuse" means.
In any case, you need to understand what led to your actions first, and then to know what led to the actions of your brother/s. However, you do not need to know what led to the actions of your uncle, because he was too older enough to know what is right and wrong. He is the real abuser. Period. It may be that what makes your two brothers actions not much different from one another is that their root is the same--if there was no sexual education for you, chances are this was the same in their case. I see that sister Gracias is asking you good questions, and I believe she would help you in some way inshaAllah.
Sister sabah I thought the same how does it matter. I am depressed even suicidal sometimes and putting a lot of my trust in this forum to help me even tho all are strangers. The reason being we are all muslims. I hope people will know that pushing me into further turmoil would be brutal and woukd rather not reply than respond with something inappropriate. Please know that Allah is watching.
One more thing that I am struggling with is this instance.
My brother was 4 yrs older than me. So i was 13 , 14 and he was 17 or 18. He had started sexually touching me, sliding his hand up my shirt and it totally confused me. As i said i had no help or a god relation with my mom and could never tell her because he was a special golden child of hers.
One day i remember this clearly he again came to lie down next to me. I was on my side with my and he came and slid his hand on my bare waist. I j ew from his past behavir over several days what he wanted. I for some reason turned on my back so he could slide his hand on my chest.
The therapist I once spoke with told me its a normal sexual response and he was the older responsible person.
I feel immense guilt about it though. I mean its almost like i encouraged it in that moment.
Salaam my Sister,
You have to want to move forward in order to do so. The issue is not a question of your normalcy or perversion, but a question of your sincere desire to look ahead. Trust in what Allah has set before you (your family, and security). I will not tell you to let go of the past. I will tell you that the answer is in grabbing hold of your future. You don't need to understand what came before in order to gratefully witness what is happening now. Gratitude is a constant and conscious exercise. I tell this to myself everyday.
your loving sister,
Hana
Thanks sister Hana.
I want to move ahead more than anything but in order to be happy and feel blessed again I really the guilt to be gone. I cant see anything normally with guilt in my eyes. It hurts like a thorn.
I cant feel guilty about the two sexual abuse episodes before age 13 but this third one it was my oldest brother, i was not in my sleep so why didnt I stop him makes me feel guilt. And that one instance where I moved. It constantly plays on my mind sister Hana.
And if course the guikt about those 2 boyfriends, the guikt about having any sexual desire or pleasure.
I honestly find it hard to function nowadays:-(
Sana786:I cant feel guilty about the two sexual abuse episodes before age 13 but this third one it was my oldest brother, i was not in my sleep so why didnt I stop him makes me feel guilt. And that one instance where I moved. It constantly plays on my mind sister
It is hard to control sexual impulses/desires. Boys get puberty around 10-14 years. At about 12-13 year they are fully functional/developed to have Intercourse. Westerm culture provdies young people as an outlet for closeness with girls (as dating).
Boys have hard time not to think about SEX during their waking hours. Ercetionss are kind of automatic, uncontorlable
There are cultures which don't let boys and girls get close. I can't imagine how things work in countries where women are covered in burqa and not even allowed to talk to unrelated men.
This seperation can cause incidences of incest/sexual touchings within families. If a woman is covered a man/boy can use his imagination to create a pic in his mind. Women even in burqa get molested/raped.
Was your uncle married when he molested you?
Forced seperation can increase in sexual molestations. I have read few blogs on sexual abuse in Pakistan. Lot of sexual abuse is done by relatives. Most bloggers recommended that people who abuse should not be punished because most of them are close relatives,
but people should be careful and protect their kids.
I have read too many reports about father/daughter incest. Most of the times nothing happens to the father. Daughter is blamed for creating the problem. I am not talking about Western countries
Girls/women are treated bad if they report sexual abuse/molestation/rape. In Saudi arabia a teacher was arrested for raping 19 girls. He was finally arrested because 19th girl complained about him, 18 did not do anything.
I don't think this would be true if the separation between the genders was followed by a good Islamic and sexual education for the children--in such situations the children are also engaged with other interesting and religious activities, that guide them easily. Any children left without such education (whether mixed or separated) are likely to fall into the situations you mentioned, when they discover the pleasure of genital stimulation naturally at an early age. Therefore it isn't the separation that causes it, but the lack of appropriate education. There are also many good in the separation, that's why Islam suggests it, however, without good Islamic moral education it is meaningless.
Issah: I don’t think this would be true if the separation between genders was followed by a good Islamic and sexual education for the children–in such situations the children are also engaged with other interesting and religious activities, that guide them easily.
What kind of education are you talking about? In Saudi arabia women are required to wear burqa and are not allowed to interact without non-mehrams. Even women in burqa are not allowed to eat alone or drive. Saudi arabia still uses religious police to keep men and women separate. In Egypt over 90% of girls get their sexually sensitive parts removed because there is a belief a girl will not be able to control herself when she goes into puberty.
I think you need to verify much of your information before posting them. Saudi women are not required to wear burqa, but it's only expected as Muslim women to wear the burqa or at least the hijab, in addition to dressing modestly. There are many saudi women who do not wear burqa in saudi, and no one questions them about it. However, most of those who wear it probably follow the Hanbali madh'hab.
The is nothing officially recognized as "religious police" in Saudi--there is only "police" just like in any other countries. People in many countries are very much educated and know how to drive well, however, you will see many traffic police officers by the roadsides enforcing rules of the road--it shouldn't be a strange thing to see the police assisting the civilians in Saudi to keep up with the rules of Allah.
Women not being allowed to interact without non-mehrams (perhaps, you meant not allowed to interact with non-mehrams) is because the women are Muslims living in a Muslim country, and Islam does not allow both men and women to interact with non-mahrams.
It's also not common to get a report indicating that the separation between the genders has caused incidences of incest/sexual touchings within Saudi families--most of the reports we hear are from outside Saudi.
Women not being allowed to eat together? In fact, this is a strange information--but what I know is that women are allowed to do many staff together in saudi. However, driving is one of the main issue they have with the Saudi government (not with Islam), and I also don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to drive.
As for the girls getting their sexually sensitive parts removed in Egypt, I don't know what it is, but I heard Sheikh Khaled ibn Abdullah Al-Musleh, saying that he also doesn't know what it is, and that he only heard that what they do brings damage to the women--if so, then this is against the teachings of Islam, and also against the type of circumcision that some scholars see as recommended in situations where it could bring good to the woman, but not required islamically (yet many scholars do not even see it as recommended at all).
That's true. I have a muslim friend circumcised at a young age all her life she has had terrible infections and hasn't been able to get pregnant after 10 years of marriage.
SVS,
Female circumcision is heavily practiced in Africa. One would find that it is practiced by people of different faiths in Ethiopia, as one example, where 33% of the population is Muslim. So, there is no basis for this in Islam, but rather a brutal cultural practice.
People in Pakistan where similar clothing at weddings as people of different faiths in India - this is culture, not religion.
In Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, yet cars didn't exist at the time of the Prophet--neither did the whole idea of a Kingdom in which equality lacked.
The examples you have given are not examples of religion--but rather examples of cultural practices.
Assalaamualaikam
Sister, you have my respect for surviving and building a life for yourself and your family, despite the horrible things that happened. May Allah's Love and Mercy help you find peace in this life and the next.
From reading your posts, it sounds like you're now looking back and trying to understand how past events have shaped your journey through life, and what influences they have had on how you have interacted with the world. I'm wondering if you might find it helpful to have a professional therapist involved, to help you explore these issues in a safe and supportive environment? I know you mention having concerns about being too ashamed about the past, but please believe me when I say it's pretty near impossible to shock or offend a professional therapist - a major part of their job is to listen to the difficult life experiences of their patients, and they should be trained in addressing these in a non-judgemental way.
You might also want to get in touch with a support group for survivors of childhood abuse, as they may, inshaAllah, be able to help you access specialist resources. Some adults hesitate and think "but it was so long ago", but the time that's gone by doesn't affect whether you can ask for help. If you feel able to, you could ask your family doctor or GP to give you contact details for reputable groups in your area (or for reputable online groups).
With regards the questions you ask, I can't give specific answers for your exact situation. But I can maybe give a few general answers that might help, inshaAllah?
1) If someone has been treated badly by the people close to them, they might find it comforting to have kind or positive contact with another person, even if they don't necessarily like that person - we all have a need for comfort and security. Cruel or confusing experiences in early life can disrupt how people form and maintain attachments to others, even after the experiences themselves have passed.
2) With regards libido (drive for sexual contact), everyone is different, and some people have naturally more interest in sex without this being a bad thing - sex can be a natural and healthy part of a loving marriage, and to my knowledge, there isn't a rule saying that women can't be interested in initiating sex... so long as it's within a halal marriage. Another situation that can occur is that a person who has been abused in early life may on some level feel they need to continue the pattern of unhealthy sexual interactions, maybe as a way to try to understand their early experiences, or as a subconscious punishment if they blame themselves on some level (which can be very common - abusers often make the people they hurt believe it was their own fault in some way).
One thing I've learned about life is that we cannot change what happened in our pasts. What's happened can't be undone. But what we can do is decide that the past does not define who we are. It has played a role in shaping us, but there is far more to us than that. When you find yourself looking back and feeling ashamed, try to remember that the person you are today is a practising Muslimah with a wonderful family of her own. You endured these things and survived. You have repented and are still repenting for the mistakes you made (and remember that you are not the only person who has made mistakes - no person alive today is perfect, and what matters is that we make tawbah and try our best not to repeat the sin).
The shame and responsibility for the abuse you experienced does not lie with you. It lies with the people who hurt you.
May Allah help you find comfort and peace, and may He reward you in the next life for the trials you have survived.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
Thank you so much Midnightmoon. How do I get in support groups.
Your forst point is so right, I used to feel I coukdnbe attracted to anyone be with anyone. I had a mom who was narcisstic, 2 brothers who had touched inappropriately and a father that I could not speak in front of.
There was just no one to call my own.
About your second point. I dont know if my interest in sex was normal or high. I would likento believe Inwas a normal curious teenager and because of past abuse neglect and sexual abuse both probably it I became a bit more open to it ? Like devalued it in a way.
I.want to.ask here.do you think what my brothers did.to.me was classic sexual abuse/ molestation ?
I'm wondering if your brothers might have been sexually abused and molested too by that uncle or any one else thus leading to their unjustifiable behavior ? As one f them was very young age of 14 that is age
When puberty starts or about to start in boys.
Do you think if brothers ask for your forgiveness then you will be able to move on?
Thank you for responding
To be very honest I think.i have already forgiven them.long back. I.dont think we will ever bring up.this topic between us again. I had the same thought about the uncle molesting them.
All I really want is closure and wanting to.know.it wasnt my fault. That i am sexual abuse survivor and not a victim and not someone who did anything to deserve it.
Because of the 2 incidents during the abuse I end up feeling like it wasnt classic abuse and it minimizes my trauma.
the moment I can accept myself to be a survivor a strong survivor of abuse by my parents especially mother by my 2 brothers and that uncle it will help.me.move on totally
the self inflicted blame I put on myself makes.it very hard
Also.its like.i.know the things I should do I.shouks repent i should try to move on and I have tried doing that but everything ffais.
I really need validation something I Never got my whole life. My own mother never validated my feelings.
I.dony trust and own.voice
Sana786 to Issah: Thanks Brother Issah for.saying Allah forgives teenage sins Inshallah.
I am still not okay with calling what happened as 'teenage play' I believe it was classic molestation that my brothers did and maybe in a naive and weak moment I moved at.some point. Teenage play makes the whole.thing feel.and sound.wrong to.me.because I.did not invite it:-(
To: Issah A 17-18 yr old boy fooling around is not a teenage play. It could easily lead to sexual play.
Thank you SVS.
I feel like it shifts all the blame from the abuser to a shared blame between the abuser and victim which is what the abuser might. It could have lead to more because of me being vulnerable and with such a low self esteem and self worth. I feel even if at that moment I went and asked him to molest me it woud still be wrong being that he was almost 4 years older and I was his little sister that he shoukd have protected.
I dont understand one logic about the abuser being an oldish man for it to be called abuse. Just because my brothers were only 3 and 4 yrs older its not not abuse. Developmentally and mentally there is a huge difference between an 11 year old and a 14 year old and a 13/14 year old and a 17/18 year old
I wish I was stronger to always see this but self blame and doubt is such an evil thing. May Allah make me have a strong mind so i can always see these things. I am extremely vulnerable and end up doubting everything even what I just wrote above.
You have replied to Guardian Angel sometime back about the teacher and him molesting each other when the said person was 11. I want to know if you think my case is similar in some way.
Thank you for the continuous support I am feeling so much better talking about this openly. Even when I dont agree to some points somewhere by the posters it helps me think harder and understand things better. We are all human and my experiences are thankfully not very common so it definitely wont be easy to understand them easily but thank you posters for supporting and helping me figure this out with you.
I can never feel this way on an American support group because of huge cultural and religious differences and beliefs.
Sana786: You have replied to Guardian Angel sometime back about the teacher and him molesting each other when the said person was 11. I want to know if you think my case is similar in some way....Thank you for the continuous support I am feeling so much better talking about this openly.
One big difference is Guys don't have any honor attached to using their sexual organs. You mentioned your mom had no problem with your brother dating a girl, that involved a girl's honor also.
Regarding Guardian Angel, I think teacher just touched his hand and legs. He claims he did not know what was happening. If she has touched him "there" I am sure he would have remembered. He thought about it years late.
He also talked about his cousin molesting him. I don't think she just put her hand in his pants all of a sudden and he put his hands in her........ Why were they alone watching TV at 12 AM? I am sure they have flirted and sent interest signals before this happened. When a boy is excited a girl can easily tell. Girls also show some physical signs too. Without saying a word, a man (boy) and a woman (girl) can communicate they like each other a lot. Movie was just an excuse to be together, girl took the lead and Guardian angel followed. Guardian angel did not say "no" and asked her to get her hand out. He made the incident look like a child abuse. When it comes to sex, a 16 yr old is like a man.
Sana786: Years later after puberty I noticed somethung different in my anatomy ( sorry for being so open about this but i have only you all here that have understood me islamically and with compassion) I realized years later that the different thing was actually a normal thing
I am curious, did you relate this "some thing different" to sexual abuse or felt upset about it. How long it took you to find out you were "normal"? I think sex education is very important so people know what is normal in sex.
Yes I totally related it the uncle's abuse. I realized its normal after going to a gynecologist fornthe first time at 24.
Sana786: One more thing that has happened which I have blamed only the brothers abuse for is that I could not have sex for almost a year with my husband. I froze. I could never spread my legs for gynecologist visits ( lady docs) I just froze and cried and pushed their hands away. I never chalked it down to abuse.
Did this happen before you found out you were normal?
You said "Yes I totally related it the uncle's abuse. I realized its normal after going to a gynecologist for the first time at 24."
I am sure you suffered from big fear for years until you found out you are "NORMAL".
Issah: However, you do not need to know what led to the actions of your uncle, because he was too older enough to know what is right and wrong
Sana786: you know how old your uncle was at the time he abused you.
Maybe 25
Why is this question relevant he was an adult he might have been 18 or 20 or 25 i was 5.years.old
Sana786: Why is this question relevant he was an adult he might have been 18 or 20 or 25 i was 5.years.old
I think In Muslim families an uncle could even be 10-15 year old or less also. If he is older and/or married it becomes a totally different issue like the person could be a pedophile. a person who gets aroused with kids and prefers kids.
I am not saying this was the issue in your case
I just spoke with my mom today SVS. I tried to bring up the age of her cousin brothers. She said my uncle is now 55.
So 18 years difference. I was probably 4 or 5 and he was 22 or 23.
Salam sister Sana
Sorry you are still suffering emotionally. Briefly what I understand regarding your situation is as under. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please don't feel outraged and forgive me if it hurt you but only purpose of writing it is to help you out.
You got sexually molested by uncle and Inappropriately touched by brothers from age of 5-14. Couple of times you didn't discourage those physical advances from your brother and now feel immensely guilty about it.
You have 2 male friends between age of 16to 23. You despise those relationship now but at that time you felt good about them and were physically intimate with them however by grace of God didn't cross ultimate physical boundary. But now you feel guilty about it.
You got married and between age 24-35 more or less you were doing average ok with life, your husband is very good guy but you are not physically attracted to him . You had to use porn and masturbation in past but had since repented but still feel guilty about it.
At age 35 your parents travelled all the way to USA to help out with delivery of your baby but some severe conflict happened between you and them that outraged both sides and lead to your current emotional instability.
You never had a good relationship with your mother. Your dad was always impartial but now he is poisoned by your mother.
What was that conflict?
What is role of your husband regarding emotional support you need?
Suppose if some one convince you that your past actions was reaction to your sexual abuse and parental neglect,will it help you to move on?
Do you feel that your husband is so good and due to your past abuse you are not good enough for him? And that is why you want rid of this baggage of self blame?
What had triggered self blame?
Till age of 35 you were emotionally stable and moving on, were you house wife or working women before and after delivery of your son?
What do you do to occupy your free time?
How is your parents relationship with that abusive uncle now?
How is your relation with your brothers now?
Do you feel in someway responsible for stillbirth of your first child ?
In addition to above Q there are so much more to discuss to explore root cause of your severe distress and bring you out of it.
Being suicidal is very serious and grave matter. It should be handled aggressively. This forum cannot provide that kind of support. You need real person in your life who can listen ,understand,validate and guide you day by day.
Thank you Gracias. You have understood the situation correctly.
I will answer what I can but somethings are so lengthy. If you can help me come out of this guilt and self blame please do.
1) The conflict with my parents. My mother suffers from a dosirder called NPD. Narcissitic Personality Disorder. Its something which her own dad had and in my family my oldest brother has it. Lets just forget the conflict reasons they were the silliest issues made up by her and its normal for such dosrodered people to do what she did. It made my life miserable because I realized about her disorder when she ca,emto live with me and realized who she really was. I forgive and my dad for wharever happened.
2) Hes an amazing supportive husband.
3) YES you are exactly right here. If someone convinces me that what happened to me was sexual abuse (rightly convinces me not just to make me feel better) and I am a product of my upbringing ie my parents neglect mothers disorder and the abuse from ages 5-14 it will help me move on. If someone convinces me that those 2 instances where I probably encouraged their abuse meant nothing and says nothing bad about my character it will help me move on.
SVS has tried to convince me and so have many others. But being vulnerable it makes me very sensitive to the use of words. Brother Isaah meant nothing to make me feel bad. His insight has helped me undertsand some key things about my past so has SVS' and Hana and others.
When I am told to repent regret and move on it doesnt help makes me feel worse.
If I had not had friendship with those 2 guys later I would be convinced of my good character but their friendship and my mother calling me names makes me doubt myself.
4) I do feel I dont deserve a husband like him. He pious and has a clean as a slate past. I seriously dont understand the words from Holy Quran about Good women are for Good men
5) i stayed at home since many years in US. Even now I am a homemaker and take care of my son full time.
6) my mom refused to believe me when i told aout the uncle. I have a feeling too that thisuncle molested my brothers but u never know. I have no indication for it just that my brothers did that to me thats why I am assuming. I dont know if my mom believes me in her heart. She still gives this uncle sadqa money and talks to him once in awhile. I hate that she did not get outraged with the uncle but Iknow her problem with me and I have made peace with that.
7) thisnis sohard for me to talk about and i am exposing my soul here. Hope I will not get any bad responses. A week before my son was stillborn I had a sexual urge which made me watch a bad video. I was very depressed with how my mom was treating me that time, refusing to show any happiness about my first pregnancy and refusing to come help me during delivery. Out of depression loneliness hormones or something I watched that video.
I lost my baby exactly a week later. All of a sudden. It made my faith in Allah stronger. It was proof for me He existed. I used to go up and down in Imaan before that.
I usually see that Allah punishes me very quickly for my smallest mistakes to my biggest sins. I wasnt punished so badly for my teenage mistakes but now its like one small thing i do and one small thing happens. For example i was at the mall one day trying some make up. My son sneaked in 2 samples ( i swear I didnt see him do it, they werent even my shades) i bought what I had to and went to another counter to buy one more thing for $20
I left and after 2 mins out of the store he removes these samples and shows me. I could have gone back and returned I should have. I got lazy and thought big deal and walked home. When I reached home I realized I had forgotten the $20 purchase at the other counter. I called and they couldnt find it.
I feel like it was a small slap on my wrist for not going back to return the 2 samples.
I can name a hundred or more things like this one. S I trully believe that th stillbirth was a huge punishment for a huge sin I did.
My only problem now is guilt. I feel guilty for everything. I wamt to stop and live my life. I want recognize that i was an innocent victim but I cannot. It kills me.
One more thing i will add at age 9 10 or 11 I would play house house with a friend (girl)
We would act like her brother is my husband and my brother is her husband. (the brothers werent there) we just used names and acted like okay my husband is coming home or eating food etc. All normal child play.
I then had a small crush on her brother too. A small crush on another friend as well of my brother. I was maybe 10,11 and 12 this time. This was around the same time my brother starting coming to molest me. Now even for this I feel like i was a slut for having those crushes and somehow he came to know I am like that and molested me. You see where i am going? Self blame all the time.
I really see where you are coming from, dear Sister.
Sister Sana think deeply about following. Only you yourself with healthy insight can defeat this self blame.
Quran a book of truth says, PURE MEN ARE FOR PURE WOMEN.
You got pure man so by Allah subhanotalla you are a pure woman.
Why this proof is not convincing enough for you that all that happened in past was circumstantial and you indeed is a pure woman ?
Do you weigh your own and worldly opinion more than Allah ?
What a great wisdom in this Ayah! MashaAllah.
When I read what you wrote to Sister Gracias, especially the two paragraphs above, I was reminded of a similar feeling of guilty that occurred to the Holy Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam). When his uncle and wife (may Allah be pleased with her) who were supporting him passed away, the people of Makkah oppressed him so much and threw dust at him, till he left Mekkah to Ta'if, hoping that they would listen to the message he brought from Allah and assist him, but they were even worse than the people of Makkah--they threw stones at him till blood was all over his body and feet.
After all the oppression that he got from both the people of Makkah and Ta'if, he felt guilty that he was not able to deliver the message of Allah appropriately. He felt that he was week or did something wrong. He felt that Allah was angry at him, that's why he is being punished and humiliated by the people.
Ibn Hisham writes that;
On account of the biting atmosphere of Makkah the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) decided to go to some other environments. In those days Ta'if was a thriving centre. He, therefore, decided to go there alone and contact the chiefs of 'Saqif' tribe and invite them to Islam so that he might possibly achieve success in this manner.
On reaching Taif, He (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) visited the 3 chieftains of the clan separately, and placed before each of them the message of Allah, and called upon them to stand by his Prophet’s (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) side.
Instead of accepting his message, they refused even to listen to him, treating him with the most contemptuous and rude manner. They plainly told him that they didn’t like his stay in their town.
The Holy Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam), who was a rock of steadfastness and perseverances, did not lose heart over them and tried to approach the common people, but nobody wanted to listen to him. Instead they asked him to clear off from their town and go wherever else he liked. When He (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) realized efforts being made mean nothing, he decided to leave but they wouldn't let him depart in peace, rather they set the street urchins after him, to hiss, to hoot, to jeer at and to stone him. He was so much pelted at with stones that his whole body was covered with blood, and his shoes were clogged to his feet. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) left the town in this woeful plight.
When he was away from the town, safe from the rabble, he prayed to Allah--a prayer that brings tears to the heart. He could have asked Allah to destroy the people who hurt him, but he (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) being the Mercy to all mankind said to Allah;
I'm not sure how this could help you, but at least you could benefit from the du'a and a lesson from the story, inshaAllah. Perhaps, one lesson is that the Holy prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) was the one oppressed but he felt that he did something wrong, and that Allah was angry at him and punishing him. This could relate to your story too. You were the one abused by your uncle and brothers, yet you fell guilty, and thinks Allah is punishing you.
http://www.al-islam.org/the-message-ayatullah-jafar-subhani/chapter-23-journey-taif
http://storiesofthesahabah.tumblr.com/post/36350341645/taifjourney
http://seerah.net/journey-to-taif/
http://www.worldprayers.org/archive/prayers/invocations/to_you_my_lord_I_complain.html
Dear Issah,Saba and Gracius ,
Nice to see all of your responses at many places .I have one doubt here
1)If some man get a adulterous wife then can we assume that man himself too might be adulterous ? (Assuming the wife has not repented sincerely ). or Vice Versa
2)What i have heard is an adulterous person after sincere repentance becomes pure and if he/she marries a good person the conditions hold true .
But if some one gets adulterous spouse who is not inclined to repent then as per this verse can we drive the conclusion that the other spouse who looks pure might be actually adulterous ?
3)If some wife is caught in an adulterous action with full proof then along with wife can we punish Husband also for adultery (as she is supposed to get adulterous husband only)
4)Or these verses are only for some specific instance or context and can not be applied generally ?
These are just to clarify my doubt .Jazak allah for answering in advance .
@Logical
Your questions are based on assumptions and not relevant to the issue at hand--we are discussing a real and sensitive issue here (the sister in the picture was not adulterous--she didn't commit zina in her past). However, if you still need answers to your questions, then please register and submit your questions as a separate post, and we will be happy to discuss them with you into details inshaAllah--this is also to avoid sensitive words here.
BaarakAllahu feek!
@ Logical,
I agree with Br. Issah to write those in a separate post.
Very briefly though, much of what you have written is not our job as humans and, as Br. Issah said, is a lot of assumptions.
Thank you sister Gracious. I cannot tell you how this one ayah has made me feel.
Saa786: My questions to myself are 1) Does kissing hugging from a guy u r not attracted( but repelled by ) much to also lead u to wanting more physical contact with them? I was 16-17 that time.
Why would you even kiss and hug a guy you are not attarcted too? Kissing and hugging would lead to other things. Kissing with tongue is a very intimate thing,
what is the criteria of post approval? how can i get my post approved?
All posts are published in chronological order, from the date they were submitted.
Wael
IslamicAnswers.com Editor
Thanks for the answer. I posted on 17 November and still waiting my post to be published. I hope it will be published soon.
Thanks
Salam Sister,
Molestation at an early age can set your future sexuality in a very confusing direction. I grew up in a secular environment and as a non-Muslim.. I can tell you that people that I have known and people my father has worked with, have a history of some type of abuse and it would sicken you to know how common it is.. but perhaps there's comfort in knowing that this happens to not just you.
I knew a children's religious meeting group where neighbourhood children (and me) would come and play games and learn about Christianity, etc.. my father worked with a pastor running the group. My father would tell me in later years that him and the pastor were approached by children nearly every week who had been abused, usually by an uncle or father or older brother. It damaged little girls so much, that my father was sometimes spoken to by girls as young as 7 - 11 and asked to be "their husband" - that they "loved him" and they didn't quite understand why he was distant and didn't go near them in a sexual way.
He told me that this was the case of about half of these children, boys and girls.
I'm telling you this to let you know that you're not an exclusive case. When (particularly little girls) are exposed to these things, they don't have the rational faculty to push the abusers away.. Most victims either freeze or accept it, sometimes even visibly allow these things to continue because they are unaware of how wrong it is and it's actually quite a natural response to want to please people who are close to you - regular abusers will know this and exploit it and it's what allows the victim to feel guilt - as if it was somehow their fault, so they won't say anything about it because they think they consented in some way.
I think this is the case for you.. If children were vocal and positively rejected abuse, there wouldn't be nearly as many cases of it. This isn't a popular opinion, but abuse in many cases takes these forms.. Think of domestic abuse for example.. it can continue for years and end in murder, but the victim keeps going back and allows things to happen by sticking around - and will make excuses for the abuser.
Children don't have the capacity to get out, don't understand the situation and are unwittingly wanting to please these disgusting perverts without knowing it.
People also have a sexual "trigger" which wakes one up to sexual desires. This happens in Western societies through TV, music, print media, advertising, etc.. it's a type of corruption and leads to entire societies being driven by sex - to sell, to promote, to degrade..
Victims of childhood sexual abuse often have this trigger activated and are unable to deal with it, as the brain, hormones and body haven't developed yet. It leads to fascinations with genitals (even animals), increased or seriously decreased libido after puberty and sexual problems in later life.
Your uncle is an abuser and he won't only prey on one person he had access to, so I suggest that your brothers were probably victims as well, and it's a reason for their behaviour - and they're most likely dealing with their similar situation.
You have never been responsible for any encouragement with regards to your brothers. I hope you picked that up from what I said before, but also you were distant from your parents, rejected by your mother and the only person who got close to you as a child, ended up doing it to abuse you. This closeness (although perverted) was real and we all need closness, especially children.. and pretending to sleep or turning so your brother had access to you, was not only a classic victim action, also it could be a longing for closeness in the only way you knew how it existed. Sadly.
This trigger would have increased your libido somewhat in your teenage years and I would suggest that the man you were not attracted to at all, but felt the need for something physical with, is resembling your uncle who you had no attraction to as a child, but he forced sexual activity on you.
Getting out of this relationship was probably very theraputic and you should try to see that for what it is.
You're also not to blame for increased sexual desire.. with the other guy you dated, although this (dating) is wrong, the increased libido is expected as you were abused. Although you could have just as likely developed a high sex drive without the abuse.
Therapy will tell you to spend your life getting over this, or you can look at it as something that is sad, but you can have a very happy sex life after it.
In my experience, women have a higher sex drive than men. In fact in Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's series on rights and responsibilities of marriage, he says that it's quite well documented in our deen that scholars have commented on women having a stronger sexual desire than men - and importanly - that this is normal. Embrace it! This is vital.. If you "hold back" these feelings and don't share them with your husband, they could come out in other ways (Allah forbid) such as pornography, masturbation, fantasies about other men..
With a high sex drive, you have focused on the guy from your past and developed a fantasy from this in a typical "one that got away" kind of way. Making a "stud" out of a man in your mind, where in reality, he probably wouldn't ever live up to the hype.
I hope this helps.. and I would offer you moving forward, to get your husband seriously involved in sex with you..Don't shame yourself for this. The experiences you can have with each other and the closeness that it brings as well as developing a strong, healthy and extremely satisfying sex life, will do wonders. He will probably be more than happy to oblige. Your thoughts will be of him insha'Allah.
Embrace it before it causes more trouble.. IT'S NORMAL 🙂
As an afterthought - a woman gets another sexual peak at about the age of 35-38 as hormones enter a different cycle.. This increase has probably reminded you of all these old issues.
a woman gets another sexual peak at about the age of 35-38 as hormones enter a different cycle
Any scientific proof for this statement ?
I have read this many places and yes there is some scientific proof to.this
Any solid scientific proof will be good else it will be just some assumption .
Most of articles like "40 is new 20 " and "60 is new 30" are all fake one ,just encouraging people to have more fun till later age .
As per my view a 40 is actually 40 only , only difference is How some one has maintained them selves ..
Assalaamualaikam
There have been scientific studies looking at how hormones in men and women influence sexual desire. Due to the sensitive subject matter, it might not be appropriate for people to provide direct links to these here - but if it's a subject you want to learn more about, it might be helpful to use an online resource such as PubMed to search recent scientific publications.
Both men and women can find that hormonal fluctuations can affect their sex drives. These fluctuations can happen for many reasons, such as stress, menstrual cycle, pregnancy, illness, age...
There is some evidence that women can experience an increased desire for sex in their later 30s and early 40s, which appears to be associated with hormonal changes.
Midnightmoon
IslamicAnswers.com editor
I don't know what you are getting at - it seems you are offended that women could experience sexual peeks, regardless of the age. Men and women experience these desires in different intensities as a general population, but also individually as well.
I agree that this is an assumption without solid evidence--which can be found in studies as Sr. Midnightmoon as stated already. However, similarly, your view of 40 is a mere assumption as well.
Kareem: In my experience, women have a higher sex drive than men. In fact in Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's series on rights and responsibilities of marriage, he says that it's quite well documented in our deen that scholars have commented on women having a stronger sexual desire than men - and importanly - that this is normal.
What do you mean "women have a higher sex drive"? What did you see in your experince that makes you think so? I am a man and I am curious to know about this.
Why are you curious about Br. Kareem's "experience" about women's high sex drive?
That's a very intrusive question and his own experience is unrelated to Islamic Answers.
Precious Star: My question was based on Kareem's comment. See below what he said in his comment.........
"In my experience, women have a higher sex drive than men. In fact in Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's series on rights and responsibilities of marriage, he says that it's quite well documented in our deen that scholars have commented on women having a stronger sexual desire than men - and importanly - that this is normal."
AsSalaam 'alaikum sister sana786,
Hope everything is well with you inshaAllah?
Thank you so much for the responses.
Something had come up.in life because of which I.couldnt respond sooner.
You know your responses have helped me.a lot.
Brother Issah , Sabah and Gracias you have helped.me a lot
Brother Issah that story about Prophet was very eye opening
When I read about the pure woman for pure man comment I felt so good inside my heart but then few posts down logical has asked a very logical question too 🙂
I hope it means what you wrote because it's in the Quran and a i have seen too many cases where this is so true.
Brother Kareem
Your detailed explanation about the situations.were very helpful too. They help.me.see.myself.in a better light.
I.want to.ask one question. When i had moved to give access to my brother you wrote it was for closeness and maybe for that was all.I.knew a classic victim response. My question.is though I.dont remember what was.really the reason I.moved, what if.I.had moved because I liked the feeling. Probably my libido was triggered by the abuse a couple.of years earlier by my middle brother?
I feel okay to.think I.moved for closeness or to.make.him.happy but feel.ashamed to.think it could just be because i.enjoyed some.part of the abuse.
Assalam alaikum Sana,
Br. Issah has given you great advice below, Maa shaa Allah.
As you think about the past and become aware of things that you had forgotten or didn't know about then, remember that this has become an opportunity to recognize what happened and asked Allah swt for both guidance and for forgiveness. There are many times that we probably sin and don't even acknowledge or recognize it; therefore, another way to view the memories that have surfaced is to see them as a blessing to get guidance from Allah swt. I know that there have been some things that I forgot or suffered from in my own childhood and no matter what I did I couldn't let it go or forget them, but one way that I was able to maneuver around it was to think long and hard as to why Allah swt wanted me to be aware of those things. Maybe the knowledge that you have now can help you, help you raise your children and warn them...whatever is happening is multi-dimensional and it is more than just a benefit for you, but your family too.
I don't think it is possible for you to forget everything, but instead, you accept it, learn from it, breathe through it, remember Allah swt as much as you can, kiss and hug your children, be there for them - and I don't doubt that your motherly instincts will be that much stronger and in tune because of what you have been through.
For all the things that pain you, ask and seek Allah's forgiveness - He is the All-Knowing and All-Powerful.
Al-Quran [5:18]
"But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination."
Implore Allah swt's Mercy and Guidance again and again.
May Allah ease your difficulties, Ameen.
MashaAllah, that's a great response sister Saba. Jazaki-Allahu khair al-Jaza.
Thank you sister Saba that was a very helpful. I missed seeing your answer.
I have only 2 more questions apart from the one to Br Kareem that I posted earlier.
This board and website has literally saved my life because I was thinking I am a person that should be ashamed to live. I was trapped because I could not tell anyone. How would an American counsellor understand, my husband too wouldnt and to find a good muslim counsellor is not easy where I live. Moreover how do I look in someones eyes and ask all these things. I would die of shame first.
Although things are very clear now I am still fragile and vulnerable and it helps to have words directly written to me which i can look at in future if i go back to the dark place. Sometimes I dont even remember my own motive for a certain thing that happened and then I start to feel guilty.
I know this thread is open to all zawaj members but I request that for what I now ask, responses be given only by Br Issah, Sis Gracias and Br Kareem. Its your posts I am referring to thats the reason. I am too vulnerable To have many varied responses to my question so please refrain for my sake. If there are doubts then too ask in separate posts. Just a request.
1) My question is: Br Issah ( Sis Gracious and Br Kareem can also answer)
You mentioned the first time I posted here about the dog at age age 13, 14, or 15. Now you all know my entire story in bigger detail. What do you think made me to the deplorable act. Do you think it was a meaningless act like Hana wrote just a curiosity of a teenager and somewhat normal. You asked if I had any sexual desire for it. I wrote no. I am 99% sure I didnt. This was however 20 plus yrs back. What if i have forgotten and what if i did. What does that make me. I am just trying to understand that desire or not what indid was normal dor my situation or not.
2) My question to all 3 of you please inshallah answer.
All this while I have read many many islamic sites etc and told ONLY fornication is Zina. Penetration is Zina. No I never did that. I was too scared. My first boyfriend tried to convince me a lot once when we were alone. I had very little Islamic understanding but knew its wrong ifnImlose my virginity. Thank goodness I was scared.
But then awhile back I google searched and found out many things are small forms of zina. Kissing hugging and doing everything else ( above waist, oral sex etc) all of this is haraam and leads to zina so its called zina of the eyes, zina of the hands etc etc.
So if any or all of the above happened am I still someone who did not do Zina beause there was no sex, no penetration. This question is very important to me.
When you wrote your answers to me that helped me a lot, yours and all answers here, did you assume I must have been involved in many things leading to zina but not zina itself or did you assume we ony kissed hugged.
Sister Gracious, you called me a pure woman. It made my heart very happy. I have always been called a whore by my mother. She would tell me till the day i got married that I need to be beaten with her shoes morning and night.
Did you assume the above and still called me pure.
This answer is very important for me. I cannot ask anyone else because I feel ashamed. I am sorry for using the words like.oral.sex , fingering, touching or feeling private parts of the other in such a too much information kind of way. I honestly want to know if what I have read is true about only pentration being zina and I prefer only the 3 members answer please. Any multiple ideas put in my head that could drive me again to depression and despair. Am I pure even if the above has happened am I someone who did NOT commit zina?
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana786,
Before I tackle any of your questions (which will be in my upcoming posts, inshaAllah), I'd like to point out at two correct interpretations regarding the mentioned ayah by sister Gracias--she mentioned the second interpretation.
First interpretation:
Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says
Second interpretation:
Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says
The first interpretation is limited to the historical context related to the basic purpose of descending the ayah, whereas the second interpretation is a broad and general meaning, which goes further to include an utmost purpose of the ayah, as related to many of our situations in life. The second interpretation also informed that good people (by nature) do not desire to be in a relation with bad people and vise versa--this is a fact understood by human nature, however it has been mentioned to be a reminder for us.
Imam Ibn kathir narates that, Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said,
Now back to you, sister Sana786.
When you agreed to marry a good man, and he agreed to marry you as a good woman, it was because each of you was certain that the other is a good person in both deen and character, and that is what Allah Has decreed for you both. In order to feel more certain about this divine issue, you don't need to use only your worldly mind, but also your divine heart which can travel far beyond to reaching of the mind till it feels and sees issues with the eye of Allah--I will discuss further about this in my upcoming posts (which will also involve how to know you are pure or not), inshaAllah. And all praise and gratitude is due to Allah, The Best of planners.
The fact that you are 99% sure about not desiring the dog is an indication that you actually did not desire it. Perhaps what happened is that, you were undergoing through a traumatic experience, which was a result of the violation by your uncle, and maybe by your brothers too (if it was after their molestation?!). Anyone in such a situation might want to repeat the same violation on themselves, of which the basic reason could be out of curiosity but meaningless (i.e. doing it just for fun or just to feel good, but with no real desire attached to it--this could be a result of your uncle making you believe psychologically that it was a good feeling when he appeared as playing with you, and not as harming you), but again of which the deeper meaning and purpose of it could be to communicate their pain--this may open a way for dark forces to enter. And as having impressionability of a teenage, chances are that this was hurting you even more, and since your parents were not available, you struggled with it silently for so long, and tried to communicate your pains through other means.
This should be enough for now, dear Sister. And I hope that both brother Kareem and sister Graisias will add more to this part as they seem very good at it, inshaAllah.
The prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) said:
Therefore, every son of Adam (either deliberately or by his weakness, or ignorance) will inevitably commit at least one metaphorical zina (including your husband), so long as he lives in this world, however, the reality of "pureness" (in the eye of Allah) is not defined by our weakness, or ignorance, nor by our being overpowered by abusers. If Allah were to consider those things, then not one of us would have been pure, ever. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says:
The above ayah was basically addressed to the best of pure men (i.e. the sahabah--may Allah be pleased with them all) when many of them joined those who lied against the pureness of 'Aishah (may Allah be pleased with her), and they were debating secretly about whether she was pure or not, and therefore Allah was reminding them of His favor and mercy upon them, and it was as though He was saying to them:
Please feel free to note down any question regarding anything I wrote from the previous posts till this or the upcoming posts, inshaAllah. And please put in mind that this is to lead you to reflect on what pureness is in the eye of Allah.
You see the happiness you felt when you read the mentioned ayah by sister Graciase? That is an indication of your pureness, and you need to associate with it, as it is your lost happiness that you found. Such happiness-feelings are divine inspirations, called "waridat". They come across our everyday lives through various means. For example, by experiencing a strong happiness (that last for a short period of time) after reading or listening to the Holy or ahadeeth, or after hearing someone speak about Allah or good deeds, or just after a good thought or nothing at all etc. The movement of such feelings in the heart (were you to see it with your eyes) is like the same way a glimmer of light sparkles as it appears from a far distance. When you notice it and then associate with it, it then becomes a spiritual state called "haal" (which will come and go from time to time), and then when you proceed further and dwell into it more till it becomes firm and take possession of you, it then becomes a spiritual station called "maqaam" or "manzil"--this is what the Scholars of heart refer to as to feel more certain and happiness as though you were in Jannah already. Perhaps you may need this to support your baby too, inshaAllah--it needs to grow up experiencing such happiness through you, inshaAllah.
InshaAllah, this should be enough for now, my dear Sister, and Allah Knows best.
Yes, absolutely. You are still considered as someone who did not commit Zina, as there was no penetration involved. Please see the previous explanation with this regard.
Brother Issah thanks for your response.
What if my husband married me assuming I am pure ? He does think he is the first man in my life.
The dog episode happened before after 2 molestation by my uncle and my middle brother. I think the third molestation happened later but I can't remember very well.
If for a moment we play devils advocate and assume I did have sexual feelings then does that make me a dirty person.
I have severely been affected and go back and can't trust my memories Br Issah. Its the worst ever time in my life.
I hope sister Gracious and brother Kareem response soon as well to what I have asked them.
May Allah make all the members helping me fulfill all.their desires and wishes. You are literally saving me from Hell because the depression was leading me into giving up praying altogether.
@sana786
Recent research in human behavioural science has found that most victims of child abuse grow up to become promiscuous adults, that explains your hyper sexual behaviour during your teen years.
Don't get stuck in your past and live in the present.
“The past is history, the future is a mystery, but today is a gift—that's why they call it 'the present'”:
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana786,
Question:
What if my husband married me assuming I am pure?
Answer:
That's the only truth, my dear sister. You are pure and you need to associate with your pureness. How to do this is to follow the tips in the hadith below--it will help you to understand yourself better, and help you move on inshaAllah.
Allah subhanahu wa t'ala says in hadith al-kudsi:
No, no at all, my dear sister. Many amongst the Sahabah (may Allah be pleased with them all) did worse than this, however, that did not make them dirty people, instead they became the best of all pure people after they repented and practised Islam.
Brother Issaah , Wow I just had no idea about all of this.
Thank you for your detailed response.
Can ai ask you one more thing. What made you ask me about what my feelings were about the animal. Now that you know my story, that I had been molested twice before that incident, do you consider it as probably normal behavior even if I had some sexual feeling ( I did not but I am covering all bases here so that even if my mind fools me in future I will not feel guilt about the incodent again.
I have one question to ask you and anyone that would like to answer please do. Please if poasible dont go into parents fed you and gave you shelter etc kind of discussion because I know and accept that I still dont want them in my life as much as before,
My parents. They have been what I explained before. Selfish at timesmloving at other times. My mothernhas narcisstic disorder but my dad is better but chooses to enable her behavior,
My family life with parents had been where I was a mute person. Couldnt speak up in front of my dad in a loud voice. Mom often made fun of me, called me dumb and never encouraged me to study etc. My brothers were golden to her. She gave me good clothes n stuff but never emotional love. We were Islamic things too.
My dad wanted me to do well study wise and in life. But he was brainwashed by her and then my affairs with the guys.
I reformed at age 22 and got married to a man chosen by them. They were very happy. I didnt like my husband that time but my mom told me if i dont get married my dad could die etc. It was emotional blackmail. She knew I didnt want to marry him. Allah made me love my husband and hes better than I could ever get but that was the story. My mum waned me out of the home badly.
After moving to US, same story her jealousy competition got worse.
She been not only an evil mom but a horrible mom in law. My odler brother lived with an american and she encouraged him then later when he left her she got him married to an Indian girl. The poor Indian girl went through hell with mom. My brother divorced her bcoz my mum told him to. That girl remarried 3 years back and delivered a baby. A year later she ( my ex sister in law) died in her sleep.
Nobody knows how and why. Maybe the stress my brother and mom had given her?
Nowadays my mom is busy breaking the homes of my 2 brothers. The older one remarried and she hates this wife too,
The middle one same story.
She destroyed my life as well. Everytime shencame during my pregnancy she made me so depressed. The first time I delivered a stillborn child at full term. The next one was premature. She was fighting with me while I was just out of csection and given birth and my son was still in NICU.
She left us troubled and alone after that. They are well to do so they throw money at us like a bribe to shut up after they have abused us.
Heres the problem. Islamically I know i cannot leave them. i call them every week. I send my sons pictures etc. But they have broken my spirit after the fights when he was born and I am not able to get back to normal no guilt phase.
Now you know about my past, my teenage life umtil 21 -22. INSPITE of all the emotional and sexual abuse I feel guilt like anything. I feel like I was such a bad daughter. This happened 20 years back so people were even more closed and still I did what i did.
All my life , I can swear, I felt obliged to them because of my teenage blunders. I would take their abuse after anuse, my moms behvior etc bcoz I felt I deserved. I felt I harmed them I betrayed their trust. Even crumbs of love for me should be enough.
I went out of my way to do things for them. Love them, buy them gifts, visit them etc etc. I was so foolish.
But now I cannot, i lost my first son and then with the second I saw their colos. True colors. Now i can never go back to being as nice. They want more contact but they are toxic to my mental health.
I still feel the guilt though. I have heard friends stories where tennage girls have givej so much girief. Ut the parents forget and forgive. I have heard stories of friends troubling theor parents, making them sick with stress, heart attacks, non muslim marriages. My own brothers married against their wishes, their wives are muslims but not approved by my parents.
And here I am so full of guilt for what happeed 20 yrs back.
How do I make myself understand I was a normal teenager acting out because of my environment, my abuse etc.
Recovering you said I was hyper sexual. I dont consider myself promiscous or hypersexual. Those words sound belittling even though what I did was wrong.
With regard to the animal, I don't think it was possible that you desired it before your last boyfriend. Your real sexual desire started while with your last boyfriend--and anything before this period was meaningless, and in other words, it was normal.
As for your parents, they have both hurt you much enough. Now you need much space during your healing process. You need much space to focus on your soul and Allah, for the sake of your share of happiness, the happiness of your innocent baby, and that of your good husband, in this life, as well as in the next life. Perhaps you need at least 3 good years (away from your parents and their unhelpful behaviour) to set things right and build a good Islamic environment for your matrimonial home, particularly for your loving baby. If after the 3 years, you still don't feel okay to have any relation with your parents, then so be it till the next life, inshaAllah. This is my suggestion and you are free to act on whatever feels right for you.
In addition to my new posts above, sister Saba has also given you a wonderful advice. It seems you didn't notice them since they are somewhere up there.
Take care for now, my dear sister.
Thanks Brother Issah. Okay Brother Issah so even if just in case I desired it somewhat sexually it's normal because of the molestation that happened before that is that what you are saying ?
Now I am so happy you have and I hope others here have not lectured me about the rights of parents and Islamic teachings about keeping them happy etc etc. I was seriously expecting that when the topic comes to parents nobody would say it's okay to detach from these kind of families
As you can see they are toxic.
What should I do about normalizing how I feel guilt about my past and then feel bad about troubling them?
They found out about the first guy and beat me black and blue. I still was clinging to him because I guess he was the only person that ever gave me any attention in life. Then they again found out and stuff and it was so bad. Now I feel guilty about being a bad teenager when in actuality it happened because of the abuse emotional sexual etc that I have been through. To live a healthy normal life I really need to stop feeling sorry for them because of how cruel they can be.
I keep thinking to myself okay I was abused that's why I acted out i BUT then my parents didn't know about the sexual abuse so they must have seen me as a normal teenager acting out unreasonably.
Someone once told.me they didn't protect me from.sexual abuse but how could they because they had no idea what was going on.
I really want to feel like whatever happened in my past was a normal teenager problem and nothing more but no it wasn't it was something more than what a normal teenager would do 20 years back. Is it not.
Its the hardest phase of my life at a time when I am physically exhausted and mentally drained and also have a little boy to look after.
I apologize to responders here for going on and on but I have never felt this kind of relief.
I will tell you what happens. When I talk to am American counselor they tell me to go No contact with my parents. When i tell them my past they say it's a very very small thing because it's so common here. When I tell a non muslim, indian friend they too think I am being an idiot because come on for them having a boyfriend is no huge deal.
They tell me they also have difficult moms and to just move on.
Sexual abuse by brothers is taboo topic with them.
I want to just for a few days few weeks feel like I have nothing to be guilty about. Nothing to look back at and feel abnormal and someone who gave hard time to their parents for having 2 boyfriends !
Out of the two just the first guy was the problem because he was non muslim. The second guy was welcomed by them and they were totally fine and wanted us engaged and married etc
So technically it's guilt for one boyfriend at age 16,17.
Yes, absolutely. And plus it was meaningless and normal because almost every children have child-hood play that don't make sense at all. Some children will talk to walls, stones, or chairs. Some will play and talk to animals etc. Some will count stars and talk to the moon. Some will jump around fighting/wrestling and making noises while imitating what they see in tv etc. In fact, all these things (including being naked in front of an animal) are meaningless and normal childhood life, and they need not to be obsessed with while in adult life--we just remember them to smile 🙂 and laugh 😀 and then move on with life.
At this point you need to start undergoing the spiritual and emotional healing process to get what you are requesting for, inshaAllah. If finding a Muslim counselor would be difficult for you at where you live, then at least we could try something here inshaAllah. I will start giving you some powerful and helpful du'as and dhikr for you to busy yourself with them for every two or three weeks, inshaAllah. And then inshaAllah if you follow the instructions given, you will feel better soon inshaAllah.
Please let me know whenever you are ready, and then I will start sending them to you right-away, inshaAllah.
Thank you Brother Issah. That will be very very helpful. I livenin NY but even though I might find some muslim counselors I cant find anyone that is able to help my particular situation. I did find a counselor sometime ago and she was nice but she kept telling me to repent and apologize to Allah and move on. It didnt help me as I have done those things already.
I have been praying since 2 years a nafil (extra 2 rakats) begging Allah to remove my guilt and help me concentrate with joy on my husband and baby. But it doesnt get better. It does sometimes but then I go back to same sadness guikt and shame, i have developed a condition called pure o ocd. In this condition my mind asks questions and expects reassurance, its so bad and such a trap for me.
I used to be very beautiful, my husband would keep telling me that and now I look like I have aged so much in these 2 years. I see that he notices it but hes too good a man to let it affect his love for me.
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana786,
InshaAllah you are doing well. Please see the du'a below, as it is reported of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) that he said: "No preoccupying concern, or sadness inflicts a bond-servant whereupon he says this du'a, except that Allah would dispel his concern and his sadness, and would replace it with joy and happiness for him."
Please continue with your daily 5 prayers and nafil, and say the above du'a along side frequently with sincerity, hope, and certainty.
Also, please feel free to ask any further question whenever you need an assurance of something regarding your issue ok. We will be here and more glad to assist you inshaAllah.
@sana786
Sorry, If you found my comment offending.
The following from your previous post made me assume that you were hypersexual during your teen years.
At age 15 i remember doing a very gross thing. There was a street dog that used to come home and once when it came home in my room and i locked the door and exposed my genitals to him At age 16 I got involved with a hindu guy a very druggie kind of guy. I still dont know what I saw in him. I clung to him even after parents found out, they beat me when they found out a second time.We never had sex but I got physically close to him 2-3 times so he doesnt get bored and dump me. I might have enjoyed those few times
Then at age 19 i got involved with a handsome muslim guy in college.We got physically close about 5-6 times but never had sex. I was the one that wanted to be physical with him more than him with me. That shames me. We went to second base but never sex.I used to go sometimes to internet cafe read something erotic and then masturbate
I hope more members respond to my question about my parents
Assalam alaikum,
You must always respect and care for your parents, but at the same time you have to set boundaries as I mentioned in my response on your previous post. It is not ok for them to yell at you or your husband - only you know best what those boundaries are. If they are not happy about the boundaries, most likely they will not be happy regardless. Your concerns about your parents' behaviour is valid.
I do think you should see someone regarding your OCD. It can be very difficult to live with this - so you should actively search for a solution through a psychologist.
Asalamoalaikum sis sana,
Absolutely wonderful and comprehensive answer by bro issah ,backed with solid references masaAllah.
Yes there is no question doubting your purity( I have read all your post thoroughly). If I doubt you this means I doubt Quran . Rest assure regarding your purity as Allah has given you this assurance in form of your husband.
Human are superficial full of flaws who judge each other without acknowledging true essence of heart and soul. True judge is only Almighty Allah who knows everything from inside out .
Brother Issah is right,you need space from parents in healing phase no matter how long it takes.Forgive your mom for sake of Allah if possible.
As you mentioned a trouble of being OCD , it is my humble advice that when you are ready ,u copy and store what ever is helpful to you on this forum thread and refrain logging onto it for sometime as despite the fact it has helped you , it is one of the thing that has potential to pull you back .
Good wishes.
MashaAllah, sister Gracias. Jazaaki-Allahu khairan.
Sister you have understood me very well.
You made my eyes well up when you wrote that doubting my purity would mean doubting the Quran for you. This.makes.me.so.happy sister. I don't know what to say.
Yes the OCD it's a very silly disease. Its a problem where I need constant reassurance sometimes. More like validation. Maybe it has to do with the past abuse that it started.
My parents never validated me. No.matter how well I did in studies or how well I listened to them, respected my inlaws or had a successful married life, a college degree, nothing impressed them. If it impressed my dad for a moment my mom would jump in to.let him know its no big deal.
What do you think i should about the guilt for troubling my parents. You have read all my posts sister.
You can see I had one boyfriend against their.wishes not the end of.of . the world right. But I have been constantly made to.feel I was a dirty girl as soon as I reached college at age 16. After they found out that is and even after I got married and settled. My mom never fails to remind me of my past to my brothers and dad.
When my son was stillborn she said it happened bcoz of my past a punishment from Allah.
So in my head the this thing is so big that what I have done is so huge. Like I wrote to Brother Issah, for an American counselor it's a very tiny thing so it doesn't help and for a non muslim friend or so it's again a small thing bcoz their not supposed to be so strict and stuff.
I see women my age and sometimes when someone tells me they were very good teenagers or young adults I feel terrible because I wasn't I had 2 Boyfriends. I got caught and beaten up etc
When I told this.to.a friend she said but those women who behaved really well might have had normal upbringing loving parents no sexual abuse etc
That's a valid point but my parents knew nothing about my abuse. They still.dont know about the brothers molesting me
So for them I.was just a teenager broken loose.
I feel guilt over this
I feel like.I have to serve them take their abuse and be so very good to them inspite of who they are BECAUSE of what they have endured with me in my teenage years.
I am.the family scapegoat so everything that goes wrong in their lives is inevitably blamed upon me. To the extent that when my brother moved to US and never returned to settle back in our home country the reason according to my mom is because the environment at home was so bad because of me.being yelled at and beaten up bcoz of the first guy ... a few months before my brother left. So.now.when she misses my brother all she says is you left and never came back because Sana made the environment at home.so bad you never felt like coming back home. Hope.I am.explaining this properly.
it's another matter that he's gone 15 Years.and so.much happened I got married moved here myself etc etc
SO I really badly want to know how to feel better about.my past in relation to troubling my abusive parents.
I gave a hypothetical example to my husband that suppose aim was a person with a past like that and feel guilt now.because of how they were troubled by me and now i.dont want to have to.. anything with them much bcoz of knowing they are abusive people . My husband says feel happy that you did so much for them in return of whatever bad had you done (hypothetically )
You got.married with their choice stayed married and happy and never went to them with troubles after marriage.you kept enduring their abuse and neglect and ignorance towards you but.kept loving and respecting them.
that itself should be enough to feel.no guilt for 20.years back.
His words are so.wise but then.still.since he does not.know.what you all know here I can't feel satisfied with his theory.
Salam sis sana ,
Yes you have explained issues properly.
I would recommend you to read a book * will I ever be good enough. Healing the daughters of narcissistic mothers BY Mcbride phd. Instead of buying it first go over its description and reviews on barns&noble as well as amazon.com. Rent it from library if u like reviews.
There Is free PDF book * Daughters of narcissistic mothers* if you get time to read it,you will find your mother and yourself in it. Sentences you used for your mothers description as well as your emotional turmoil are in there.
There are online discussion forum where people suffered by narcissistic mothers support each other .
Your mind set is a classical picture of end result of being brought up in unhealthy environment where your mother being a narcissist was envious of you ,threatened by u , jealous of you,instead of giving you support and guidance she always belittled you,thus even if you had lived by according to her wishes as a ideal daughter she would have treated you same or even worse as this would have been a threat to her superiority or validation.
Sis A said it right ,that outside validation will never work or make u feel better . You got it from your husband,friends, on this forum etc but it didn't satisfy you.
Use your own will power, if not read in past then read above book, improve your connection with Allah and then assess yourself. I'm hoping one of above book will help you insaAllah.
Thank you sister Gracious.
You are right outside validation does not help. I am very pleased to learn that you know about narcisstic mothers and how we daughters of such mothers suffer. I hardly ever come across people who know what this disorder really is.
Thank you for validating me. Although this board is outsode validation its is the only place where I have felt safe to come to where I got REAL help. Practical and Islamic advice and true empathy. So this has helped me indeed.
That book is excellent. I read it and saw my mother in ever chapter. I havent read any other books on this topic yet.
Thanks for saying what you said about evem if i was ideal she wwoukd be the same and yes maybe worse. I often wonder what she would be if I was an ideal child.
I feel bad too about how mu h I have lost thanks to her.
Salam Sister,
I am sorry to hear of your difficulties. I could not read every detail due to time constraints but I noticed at the end your mention of OCD. As you stated, one of the hallmarks of this condition is the constant need to seek reassurance and validation. Unfortunately, it is not to your benefit to receive this constant reassurance from people, whether here on the website or in your real life. As you may know, a person with OCD usually feels better for a short time after receiving reassurance and validation and then soon falls back into the cycle of needing even more reassurance and validation, making them feel even worse. I have a relative with this condition, and one of the hardest things I have had to learn is that I should not continuously reassure him. To the contrary, I have learned to speak to him in a way that gets him to contemplate his situation on his own and decide whether things are okay without me directly stating that they are. A counselor trained in cognitive behavior therapy can help you with this aspect of OCD. There are also medications that help this condition. My relative takes medication and now has his condition under control. I am writing this post first of all because I hope it may encourage you to seek out treatment for your OCD and also because I would like to encourage those trying to help on this site to learn more about OCD and the paradox of offering reassurance to a sufferer. Here is an article that may be of interest to you and others:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and-the-need-for-reassurance/00015835
Thanks sister A. You have understood correctly. It does involve reassurance. To be honest whatever I have asked until now all my questions here on this site there was just one instance where I think I needed reassurance. That question I had asked to brother Issah and he never gsve me any direct reassuarnce but made me seek the answer myself with his explanation and a story of the Prophet.
Here what I am asking and questioning is more like something I am really dealimg with.the Ocd i have comes into play in smaller and silly things but these problems about my parents my famiky the guilt my teenage life, abuse etc they are real problems DUE TO which the OCD might have started at some point in life.
AsSalaam 'alaikum sister Sana786
I haven't seen your response regarding the du'a I gave you somewhere above. I believe that could help lead you to find answers and reassurance in the spiritual aspect which could be solution to at least half of the issue at hand inshaAllah. As for the emotional aspect of it (the OCD in particular), you need a real professional councelor, particularly the one trained in cognitive behavior therapy as mentioned by sister A above. A good muslim councelor trained in both Islam and cognitive behavior therapy could also help you much in the spiritual aspect as well.
One thing I am sure of is that our discussions here have helped clarified some misconception you had regarding some ayaats and ahadeeth, alhamdulillah. So perhaps seeing a professional councelor alongside while still here with us on this site would really help much better. What do you think, dear sister?
I am curious about your husband. like what do you think his reaction would be if you told him about what is happening? I am not suggesting that you tell him, but I'm curious to know what his reaction could be. Do you sometimes feel like he knows what is happening but doesn't want to let you know he knows?
Thank you so much brother Issah. I apologizd I checked only the last messages and missed the dua. I hope tthis dua will cure me of my ocdand guilt. I feel so supported and understood on this board.
Is this dua recommendef after every prayer ?
I live in New York and havent been able to find a good therapist who is muslim and an expert with cognitive therapy.
I need someone who knows how yo help sexual abuse victims as well as knowledge of Narcisstic personality disorder that my mother has. I went to one, she wasa good sister but she had no experience with both issues.
My husband knows I am going through a lot. I look like so beaten and worn since 2 years i dont laugh and stay happy as before. I talk to him about it sometimes but also try to give him an image of me that is not crazy.
Sana786: I need someone who knows how yo help sexual abuse victims as well as knowledge of Narcisstic personality disorder that my mother has. I went to one, she wasa good sister but she had no experience with both issues.......My husband knows I am going through a lot. I look like so beaten and worn since 2 years i dont laugh and stay happy as before. I talk to him about it sometimes but also try to give him an image of me that is not crazy.
Sana, does your mom live with you? Your mother probably went thru a lot during growing up that made her become a Narcissistic personality. She was also 5 yr, 10 yr, 15 yr old and so on and had parents who treated her bad. She did go thru puberty and intense hormonal effects. She could have been molested too. She may have experienced similar things you have experienced.
I have feeling your suffering has lot to do with bad treatment by your mother, extreme fear of your dad and sexual experience and abuse you suffered.
What happened 2 years ago that started all this?
You should not trust your mind 100%? Your mind told you to turn on your back when your brother approached you, your mind told you to spread legs, your mind told you to expose yourself to a dog. Now the same mind is making you feel guilty about doing those things.
Your mind told you about lot of things that may happen but never happened. You don't have to accept 100% of what your mind says. Your mind should not control you but you should control your mind.
2 years back they came to Usa and created huge problems for me.
I dont think I want to empathize with my mother at all. She had the chance of becoming a good mom. I am also a mom and gone through worse but would I treat my child like that.
SVS even though you have helped me in the past with some posts I cant help but notice that you tend to dig up some things that I might not be comfortable to elaborate or discuss about. Sometime you asked why does a person want to hug and kiss someone they are not attracted to fully knowing my exact situation.
@Sana786
102 responses on this post, including yours, still no signs of closure! Have you read the book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle ,if not, I suggest you do, its pdf version is also available online for free.
Yes its very complicated things we are discussing and even though many helpful responses were posted not all 102 have been helpful.
Salam sis Sana,
I hope you are doing fine. Because you have awareness about your problem you have chances of good prognosis to overcome it and live happily inshaAllah. Biggest plus point is your firm believe in Allah.
Search of good therapist is appropriate but until you find one try to help yourself on your own .
For psychological strengthening read self help books that are specific to your issues.
For spiritual strengthening we can ask bro Issah to elaborate little further what he described in one of his mail about waridat, Haal, Maqaam and Manzil concept. Is it kind of hypnotherapy?
If despite above you feel ongoing debilitating depression then starting on low dose of antidepressant is justified. You don't have to take them life long. Once depression is controlled patients can be tapered off from them.
You will get well and happy. InshaAllah!
Sister I don't know if this.is allowed but do you think I could.email you separately.
Yes sure sis, how can we go about it?
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana768,
InshaAllah, you are doing well.
Regarding the du'a, there is no specific time for it. You can say it whenever you are not doing anything. However, times after every prayer are among the best times for answering du'as. Also about one to two hours before fajir prayer is also among the best times for answering prayers.
To sister Gracias, regarding the hypnotherapy and Islamic spirituality.
Yes, part of the Islamic spirituality could seem like the hypnotherapy when (the hypnotherapy is) done without going against any of the principles of Islamic belief, which could then be considered as Muslim-hypnotherapy. However the Islamic spirituality that we are discussing here is very much broader than hypnotherapy. As hypnotherapy focuses on healing the soul and mind through a journey around the physical world, the Islamic spirituality goes further to include healing of the spirit that gives the soul and mind the life to function through a journey around the physical world to the spiritual would, from where the person could see himself from a perspective outside the physical world--the Islamic spirituality is more about reality of realities. Whoever goes under the hypnotherapy healing process may also need the Islamic spirituality to understand their real origin and real purpose in this world, in addition to knowing the real path to reach their real destination successfully, but the opposite is not true.
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Waaridaats (waarid-single) are glimmers that appear to the heart or mind to motivate and encourage the person to do a good deed (it could be a spiritual or physical deed) with joy attached to it. Haal is where the person has associated with the good deed, but is still not completely firm with it. Whereas maqaam or manzilah is where the person has become completely firm with the good deed in such a way that he does it naturally with complete joy, without any difficulties or obstacles.
For example, the person was inspired to give zakah and he felt the joy and was willing to do it, yet he is still aware of the reduction of his money which may hold him back sometimes. But when he has gone further to giving zakah and enjoys giving it from time to time, then he is now with the haal of giving zakah. When he struggles further till the joy overcomes him, then the act of giving zakah takes possession of him, which means he is in the maqaam/manzilah of giving zakah.
There are three main stations of yaqeen (i.e. certainty) , which are 1. Islam, 2. Iman, and 3. Ihsan. Each main station has its own sub-stations under it. The waaridaat, haal, and maqaam/manzilah are used in any of these main stations, as well as in the sub-stations. For example, a non-Muslim could be inspired to embrace Islam. When he embraces it, he is then in the state of Islam. He is then inspired to practice the rules of Islam gradually (which are the sub-stations of Islam) till he becomes firm in that and then attain the main station of Islam. He will then be inspired to move on to the sub-stations of iman, till he completes them and moves on to the sub-stations of ihsan.
Any station above is an affirmation of a previous one and therefore can't be attained without adhering to the previous stations. The names of sub-stations in a particular main station may look similar to names of sub-stations in a different main station, but they do not mean the same thing. For example, the sub-station of tawbah in the main station of Islam is not the same sub-station of tawbah mentioned in the main station of iman or ihsan. The tawbah in the main station of ihsan does not necessarily have to be for a sin committed, rather it may be for the sake of increasing in ranks with humility and humbleness, and it may also be to make tawbah from seeing the greatness of your good deeds instead of the greatness of Allah Only. The messengers of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihim wasallam) were inspired and ordered to make tawbah, yet they did not commit sins, which indicates that their tawbah is not like our tawbah in the station of Islam.
In surah al-fatihah, despite us being on the straight path, which is Islam, we say to Allah at least five times daily that ''Guide us to the straight path'' (Quran 1: 6). In reality, we are asking Allah to inspire us with waaridaat of more guidance, direct us, and make it easy for us to attain upper stations, from islam to iman, and from iman to ihsan, and from ihsan till death--whatever the servant dies upon is his level of yaqeen (i.e.certainty). Allah subhanahu wata'ala says, ''And worship your Lord until there comes to you the certainty (death)'' (Quran 15: 99)
''We have enjoined upon man kindness to his parents. His mother carried him with difficulty, and delivered him with difficulty. His bearing and weaning takes thirty months. Until, when he has attained his maturity, and has reached forty years, he says, "Lord, enable me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents (seeking for waaridaat of the station of thankfulness through islam), and to act with righteousness, pleasing You. And improve my children for me. I have sincerely repented to You, and I am of those who have surrendered (islam)."" (Quran 46: 15)
''"He (Prophet Sulaiman--sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) smiled and laughed at her (the ant's) words, and said, "My Lord, direct me (seeking for waaridaat of the station of thankfulness through ihsan) to be thankful for the blessings you have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good works that please You. And admit me, by Your grace, into the company of Your virtuous servants (ihsan)."'' (Quran 27: 20)
The waaridaat are of two forms, the first one is attained by seeking it from Allah as in the examples above, whereas the second one is inspired to us without any effort out of Mercy of Allah, and the person inspired may choose to accept it or deny it. An example of the second could be seen in the following aya:
''And as for Thamood, We guided them (i.e. we inspired them with the glimmer/waaridaat of guidance, and they witnessed within their heart the truth of the guidance of which they were being called to), but they (knowingly) preferred blindness over guidance. So the thunderbolt of the humiliating punishment seized them, because of what they used to earn.'' (Quran 41: 17)
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To understand what the Islamic spirituality is all about, Imam ibn al-Qayyim discussed the station of ''life'' in his book madaarij as-saalikin, where he mentioned nine stages of life. He explained the eighth stage (which is the life of joy and happiness) till he got to the following:
May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala inspire us to love Him, and make us of His beloved servants who have succeeded in their journey towards Him.
Thanks Brother Issah.
Thanks so much Bro Issah. Very enlightening concept . It can change our life if we are able to understand its depth, get a grip of this subject and able to incorporate it in our life.
I appreciate the time and effort you have to put in to describe it. I did have to re read your mail more then once due to its complexity as it is new knowledge for me. It does make complete sense and hopefully it will help sis Sana inshaAllah.
It is very helpful to me too and given me an avenue to explore it further.
Shukran
Sister Gracious and Brother Issah can you please send me an email on my email id
I want to talk about something that I am.uncomfortable to post publicly. I have already got so much help on here and this.board.has helped me see myself in a different and better way.
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana786,
I understand that you need assistance in private, however, I don't think posting your Id in public was a good idea. It could have been better if you requested that through the Editors.
Firstly, I personally don't do that for several reasons. And secondly, your Id is seen by even those who do not comment on this site, so what are you going to do when you start receiving sensitive messages from strangers, as you know how sensitive you are with words?
If I were you, I would delete that Id or stop using it right-away. I was hoping that at least one of the Editors will step in, but unfortunately it seems they are unaware of what is happening here.
I hope you understand my point, dear sister? We care for what is right and best for you.
Brother issah I have been helped beyond my imagination by this webite and members here. I am much better now. I really did want to communicate with you and also brother kareem about some things. By talking about them i risk giving my identity to anyone that might be someone that personally knows me and reads this now or in the future.
Thank you for all your help brother Issah and all others. I have been contacted by a muslim psychologist that will help me Inshallah.
Brother Issah can you post more of the powerful duas that you mentioned. If you are uncomfortable sending to my email then here.
Thank you Zawaj for all your help and I will keep postijg here for more questions. May Inshallah your website reach greater heights and help many muslim people who are not able to get help otherwise.
AsSalaamu 'alaikum sister Sana786,☺
I am so glad to hear that you are much better now, alhamdulillah. As I am also very happy to hear that you have been contacted by a Muslim psychologist, mashaAllah. May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless and reward this Muslim psychologist very much, and make you benefit much from the counselling process. Ameen!
I have a special du'a for you sister. And I hope that Almighty Allah will make it beneficial to you, inshaAllah.
Narrated by 'Ubada bin As-Samit:
Thank you everyone that helped.me here.
I hope you can see this comment and help me with my new problem. I have been feeling much better for 2 months. I.am now even talking to a muslim osychologist and it was going good. There.are.some things.though that I am.still.embarassed to share with the psychologist and the anonymity here.helps.me and the fact that so many of you end.up helping me with similar responses which makes it easier to believe.
I have OCD as I.mentioned earlier and it's probably shaitans waswas to.make.me.fall apart again and stop praying
Today I am here with a very embarassing revelation and I.hope nobody will judge me or make.me feel worse with random questions derails etc. I wrote the following post as a new post but moderator suggested I could put it.as a.comment first so that it's posted sooner.
You already know many things here but will.still put the same thing that I wrote as a new post
I am the same woman that posted here 3 months back. I got a lot of help from.brothers and sisters here. I was contacted recently on a muslim board by psychologist who helped me a lot too but even now there is one particular thing that keeps coming back.in my mind which I feel to embarassed to talk to even the psychologist about.
Here.is the link to my previous questions.
http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/should-i-end-this-sad-life-sexually-abused-by-brothers-terrible-narcissistic-parents-and-now-guilt-is-killing-me-please-help-me/
Some members from here have even contacted me and helped me on.email.but I needed help.again and decided to come here.
In brief
Like you know from my previous post. I live in New york and am.from.India.
I am 37 now and so these incidents a happened almost 20 years back.in the year 1995-96 etc.
I was sexually molested by 3 people my uncle at age 5 my older brother at age 11 and oldest brother at age 13 or 14.
I have a terribly narcisstic mother. She has ruined my life in many ways. She had a daughter for the sake.of having a complete family but as soon as I.became.older she started competing got jealous of.me.and till.this.if I.die because of the stress it's all.been given by her. My dad is her puppet.
My older brothers had several broken engagements and one broken.marriage thanks to.my parents. The older brothers.wife.took.so.much stress after her divorce that she passed away at age 37 in her sleep a few years after the divorce.
I have a wonderful husband who.I.married to.make.my parents happy at age 23. I wanted to.escape.my verbally abusive and.emotionally abusive parents. They beat me.only.sometimes but.something happened in childhood that.made.me.forget all.my childhood.memories.and.I.became mute.in.front of.my dad.and.all.strangers. I would whisper what I wanted to my mother.
At age 32 when I.got.pregnant my parents under the.pretext to.help.me.came.to.usa. they are very.to.do in india. They kept spending time.with my brothers and.ignored.me.made.me very sad and stressed and lonely and went back before.the child was born.
2 months after they left I.lost my.baby in.the.final month of.pregnancy all.of a.sudden. even after that my.parents.were.never close to.me. again i.got.one chance to.have another.baby which would be the.last.baby and.they came here.and troubled.me.a.lot and fought with.me.and.my husband as.soon as he was.born and left me alone.
All.tjis stress has played with my mind.terribly.
Now.the thing.is.at 16 I.had.become.a.rebel.and was having an.affair with a hindu guy same.age. in my home we were.never made.to.focus.on.islam much.
In ignorance me and this guy did.everythung except.have sex. One time.I even did oral sex.on him. Now.you can see why I feel embarassed to.talk.all this to anyone and come here for.help. if i.dont get help here.I cannot go anywhere. Anyways I.was 17 or.so.then. i.got caught then also.would.cling.to.him
My.parents took lot.of stress. My dad.always had blood.pressure but around that age he started medicines. My mom also.used.to get racing heart beat all.my stress. They got.high cholesterol too. In.2006 that means 10.years later they got some heart blockage but by then I.was.married.and.gone.
Then again I got involved at age 19 with a handsome muslim.guy. my parents approved.of.him but I.broke.up.with.him.as he was very wierd which I.realized.later.
Now.my problem.is.I.blame myself.for.my.parents health.issues and.I.feel I.deserved all.the abuse they gave me. I.mean they didn't even know i.was a.sexual.abuse victim. So.for.them.I.was a teenager gone crazy.
When I.broke up with my.first boyfriend.the.hindu.guy my dad said.sadly we don't even know.if.she has done zina. I felt so badand.then.I think.my mom went and asked the guy if.we.did.zina.and the.guy assured her we didn't. Because she told.dad.no.she doesmt think I.did.it.
Many years later when she was talking.tome.she.told.meshe.told.me.she is.happy I.was a virgin when.I.got.married.and that really.matters etc.
Now my problem.is.these.parents.are the kind that can kill you with stress so.I.am.keeping my distance and do the bare minimum that islam.suggests. I.call.them often and.keep distance otherwise. It makes.me.still.guilty because
1) I think.of the health problems I.caused.them unknowingly.
2) I think.about.how.I deseve their abuse for being a brat and a bad girl.in teen years
3) worst of.all.i.keep thinking what.if that boyfriend told.my mom.about the.oral.sex I.did.to.him.once and everything else that we did how.much she.must have hated me.and.that.no.wonder she treated me.so.badly all.these 20.years. Itried.to.make.them.happy by.marrying.right man.and.never gave them.stress after marriage also. I took their emotional abuse quietly etc mever.complained but was.it enough given my sordid past
I feel so much stress just thinking about it . Now like a fool I found the hindu.guy on facebook and messaged him to.ask him what all he told.my mother. He hasnt replied yet .She knew.i.went.to.his.place once in the relationship and.asked.me.how.I could.go what if.he.had.raped.me.along with friends etc so.he did.tell.her that. He was a decent guy so whatever it was I have the feeling he didn't tell her details.of.the sexual nature of our relationship. He did tell my mother once that another guy was after me when this guy ( the boyfriend got jealous of the other guy )
My mother is very vicious and holds grudges. I feel if he had told.my mom something volatile she would have told.me in her anger which has never happened.
My older brother though told me once my mom.always calls me a bitch behind my back. He once said he thinks she is very jealous.of me. She used all her energy to.make.my dad and 2 brothers hate me all my life. Once i visited my brother and he gave me a banana to eat which I didn't ear at night and morning he comes to.my room.and asks me if that banana is okay ( intending I.am sex crazed woman who must have used it.to.do something) then he ate it. This.is.the same.man who has sexually molested me who has married 3 times and his first marriage was with a older white woman with 3 kids for citizenship he dumped her. He has done so much Zina maybe with 100 plus women and my mother thinks men are uncontrollable so it's okay.
Please can you here reason with.me.tell.me.why I.cant stop thinking this.part and is this kind.of treatment from.parents normal for girls that rebelled in teenage years. If my mother knows then do.I.deseve the abuse.
I feel so lonely with parents that are mentally so.sick they cannot love me. I am okay so okay with bad parents I am.okay with anger what kills me is the GUILT. I justify their actions with my past teenage years.
I.want.to.live please help.me. please try.not.to put.me.down if you have.nothing.nice to say don't say anything as again today I.am.very vulnerable.
Also i.hope here I.wont be preached.about islams.rules on parents.
I.have followed.everything since some.16-17 years my.parents are indeed very selfish and my mom.has NPD for.sure.
Even.today she.is.busy ruining my brothers lives.
I.turned.to.islam more.n.more after getting a very pious husband who hasn't left one salat since he was a teenager. He.showed.me.more guidance and.since many years I.pray and fast and do tauba and.love Allah but why are these thoughts coming back. Help.me.please once again
Nice to see you again, sister Sana786. And I'm glad you are feeling much better now, mashaAllah, walhamdulillah.
I think you need to continue seeing the psychologist till you are able to feel completely better, inshaAllah. If you truly want help, then don't be shy to ask them the questions you are asking here, because they could understand you much better than us here.
May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala ease your difficulties. Ameen.
Brother Issah I was expecting more help from you:-(. Thank you though. I won't speak with the psychologist about this new problem it's not going to help I feel embarassed but will try to work it out on my own anyone else that can help me here please do
I know the issues are similar like before but I thought I could get help about my parents topic at least
Sister Sana786, I'm so sorry if I couldn't help much this time. However, the truth is that, you need a professional Psychologist who has experience in dealing with situations like yours, to understand you and help you, but unfortunately I am not one. I am only expert in Islamic spirituality (or spiritual psychology), but obviously this isn't what you are looking for.
Dear sister Sana Asalamoalaikum ,
I'm happy for you that you feel a bit better. Hopefully this is just one of those random relapse days and you will pick back improvement in your thought process soon. At this point it is very important to communicate all this to your therapist so they know what lead to relapse and then guide you how to handle it. Don't be shy with them.
I just want to emphasize one point from your mail . DONOT establish conversation of any kind with that Hindu person. You have wrote him already but just not look for any answer from him as it is against etiquette of a muslim wife. Any information from him is valueless and you being OCD , this contact can linger on unknowingly.
I'm glad you mentioned that it was foolish of you to write him any way.
Good wishes sis.
Yes sister Gracious I.hope.this is temporary. T
Right now I feel that one Incident if my mother came to know then all her injustices are justified
I feel that one time what happened in all my 17 year old foolishness is worst than all the women who ever did actual zina several times.
I am in a terrible place right now hope you and others can help me further with this.
That guy hasn't answered I know its so bad to talk to him and Thanks sister for warning me about this.
Dear sis Sana,
InshaAllah it will be temporary phase. It is not new question or conflict. This is interwoven with baseline issues.
You know that problem is basically just not with the past but actual problem is with your thought processing .
The technique and tips used in your therapy was going in right direction as you were improving. That is why I emphasize to use same coping techniques that had worked . If you donot feel comfortable sharing specific incident with them at this time then atleast let them know about relapsing guilt.
In meantime try to identify what triggered these thoughts again? Try to think what has helped you most in therapy sessions ?
Gl