Islamic marriage advice and family advice

Divorcing second wife on paper but not verbally so that I can still be her husband; is such arrangement possible in Islam?

second wife

Assalam O Alaikum,

I am 47 years old male have a family of 3 kids and wife to whom I have married for over 22 years.

I have been in sexual relationship with women for around 6 years and used to financially support her and her family. After 5 years of relationship we both decided to marry and nikah was performed with marriage ceremony within her family and relatives and her neighborhood. I did not take permission from 1st wife and nor does my family know about it as I don’t want to hurt my family and my wife to whom I dearly love. I am attracted to my 2nd wife and like her company as well but more attached to my 1st wife /kids family.

My 2nd wife understands my commitment limitations to her and she also sometimes encourages me to spend more time with 1st wife and kids so that they remain satisfied with me . My 2nd wife is grateful that I have married her and role I have played for supporting her family. During this course she has become more religious and is nudging me to also start namaz, roza and zakat and is creating an awareness on Islam which I have gradually embraced.

I and my 2nd wife have decided to have child. After the child birth say after one year I want to shift my 2nd wife away out from her existing family and get her an apartment on rent (and at later stage I might buy an apartment) and have my 2nd family out there in secret and want to significantly reduce to my financial supporting of her parents family and I want to financially support only my 2nd wife and my future children once the child is born.

My 2nd wife is still very attached to her family and doesn’t want to shift as she doesn’t want her family to financially fall down. Her other concern is that I wont be able to spend too much time with her only limited to say 1 to 2 hours every alternate days and I will also spend 2 full days during every week but won’t sleep overnight whereas her family provides her support and company as she is worried to stay alone.

She also says she might be able to stay alone once she has kids but will only shift provided I continue to financially support her family as she doesn’t want them to fall down and even wants me to buy small house for them. My concern is that I would rather spend money on my 2nd wife and future children and first settle them once child is born as they would have higher priority for me as compared to her family.

I have also suggested my 2nd wife that her family may have to lower their basic living standards which somewhat hurts her and she feels guilty and is willing to sacrifice her bright future for the betterment of her family.

My 2nd wife also says her first priority is her family. Her 2nd priority is me.

Based on the above situation, I have the following questions:-

1.    Is it permissible in Islam to marry 2nd wife secretly within the same city and not taking permission from my 1st wife.
2.    Is it obligatory for 2nd wife to obey my instruction of shifting out with me and staying alone after the child is born? And is it obligatory for her to give me first priority despite my limitations as explained above? Besides her obligations towards me, how about the human element on my part asking her to leave her family permanently and staying with me.
3.    Is it correct for my 2nd wife to still give first priority to her family after my marriage with her. Or should I demand that she gives me and our joint future the 1st priority ? I also don’t want to sound like a moron.
4.    She is very firm on not shifting and sometimes shouts at me or gets rude at my on my persistence and sometimes she gets hurt as well because even I might be sounding materialistic and rude to her, so I am somewhat confused on her commitment towards me. Even if she would have said in a reassuring voice with some humility that she is OK with whatever future I decide for her and given me a feel of she is my woman and I may have stopped even persisting her. Although she continues to be an affectionate person with me but she is very firm on this and at times she gets herself as a very cold person when I discuss this subject.
5.    Given the above challenges I am gradually getting less attracted towards 2nd wife and now also feel less obligated for her and as time passes I was thinking of looking at options to formally divorcing her on paper but not divorce her verbally so that religiously I can still continue to be her husband whereas on papers I have divorced , is such arrangement possible in Islam? As don’t want her and her family to have claim on my wealth after I leave this world and want to protect my family of 1st wife and then even drop the idea of having child with 2nd wife as don’t want the child to suffer in such unhealthy future relationship. Because I am angry at all this at later stage I might even fully divorce her.
I am somewhat confused and need some enlightened guidance please.
Ahmed Ali,
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54 Responses »

  1. Asalamualaikum brother,

    I am young to advice you 🙂 but though in young age I got married and I am a mother 🙂 alhumdullilah, that's why I would like to say something as a little sister. I won't be able to answer your all question but in general I would like to say.

    Brother you made big sins!! You must repent to Allah sincerely and ask for forgiveness. 

    In your post you said you already married to 2nd women was between her family so I don't know why you asking it again! 

    Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 4 Surah Nisaa verse 3: 
    And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans,  you may marry two,  or three, or four women whom you choose.   But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them,  then marry only one wife;  or marry those women who have fallen in your possession.   This will be the better course to avoid injustice. 

    As per I know that I don't think you need to take permission BUT its nice and be truth to your wife it's better option. I think she should listen to you. As a wife husband comes first then family.

    I feel like you are capable to take care more then one wife, that's what she is feeling and nothing wrong in it but in your posts some words made me weird like when you said she said her family comes first then you? On other hand you supporting her family! Little confused about her intention.

    In last paragraph of your question you said now you not attract I mean less. That means you in confused situation. Brother I will suggest you to leave this women and be happy with your family and childrens only if you not married to this lady! And if you married then try to settle down talk or let your wife or family member know and solve this problem. I don't think you should keep secret anymore. It will harm you only only you will suffer and if anything bad happens then you will be alone brother obviously Allah is with us no matter what but in this world you will feel alone.

    As per divorce i don't think that consider divorce because she dosent know no one knows I don't know sorry brother. I am sure some one will give to better and wise answers to your question.
    Sorry brother I know I didn't give you any wise suggestion I just spoke from my general knowledge.

  2. ASSALAMALAIKUM -
    s it permissible in Islam to marry 2nd wife secretly within the same city and not taking permission from my 1st wife.
    PERMISSION FROM ALLAH HAS BEEN GIVEM IN THE QURAN-
    The stand point of Quran is this -
    And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
    NO PERMISSION FROM WIFE IS REQUEIRED BUT INFORMING MAY BE BETTER TO AVOID LATER CONFRONTATION AND DISPUTES OVER HER SHOCKING NEWS ABOUT YOUR 2ND MARRIAGE-

    AND WRITTING ON PAPER ALSO IS EQUAL TO DIVORCE WE CANNOT PLAY WITH TALAQ MATTER AS WE LIKE-

    REGARDS LAI

    • Incomplete and inadequate advice. You have dealt only with the legality of marrying the second wife, while ignoring the years of adultery, dishonesty, and selfishness.

      Wael
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  3. Salams brother Ahmed,
    You went out and decided to marry a sister in secret, you dont want her to continue living with her family yet you will only spend a few hours with her in alternate days, you sometimes feel less attracted to her when she affirms that she does not want to shift houses because of lonliness, you are still thinking of getting a child with her yet want to divorce her on paper but still be like a husband to her?
    You are confused and being totally unfair to your second wife. You dont want her to be known. If you want to have her in your life, i suggest you give her the full rights of a wife and the same from you to her. Secrets like these come out eventually, many people are going to get hurt when it blows out. Put it in the open. Dont bring a child into such an environment.
    It is very unhealthy. Decide what exactly you want out of it all then make amends. Don't string the issue along.
    I wish you the best.
    Salams.

  4. I completely agree with Newgirl. Brother Ahmed Ali, your behavior in this entire matter has run the gamut from sinful to selfish, and yet you don't seem to realize it. Instead you are preoccupied by the fact that your second wife refuses to move out of her parents' home and is not as humble as you would like.

    Brother, you need to acknowledge your own mistakes. First you committed adultery for several years - a very, very serious sin in Islam.

    Then when you finally chose to marry the woman, you did it secretly, hiding the fact from your first wife.

    Although it is not required to seek the first wife's permission before marriage, it is certainly a matter of courtesy and kindness. Furthermore, deception and lying are forbidden in Islam - and I have the feeling you are doing a lot of lying to your first wife. What lies do you tell her when you are at your second wife's house? Where does she think you are? Are you not ashamed of this ongoing deceit and betrayal?

    Now, as Newgirl said, you want this second wife to move out of her parents' home and you will drop by and see her one or two hours every alternate day? (presumably for sex).

    Furthermore you want to play some kind of game with Allah's laws by divorcing her on paper but not verbally? Do you imagine you can fool Allah? In any case, divorce on paper is equal to a verbal divorce. There is no difference.

    Brother, as a Muslim and according to what you have described, you have two options:

    1. Bring your second marriage into the open. Tell your first wife and your other family about it. Divide your time equally between the two women and give your second wife all her rights.

    2. Divorce the second wife and stay with your first wife.

    Furthermore you must make a true and sincere tawbah for the sins you committed with the second woman. When you've done that, you need to examine your own behavior and ask if you have behaved with sincerity and honesty. Islam is not only prayer and fasting. The Messenger of Allah (sws) said, "The deen is sincerity."

    Wael
    IslamicAnswers.com Editor

    • Great advice bro Wael:),
      I must admit; I was angry while editing your post but not now as I am not under the influence of Shaytan. The reason was that despite realizing that your problems in marriage could be due to you following haram desires, you still are trying to find ways to reduce/remove the responsibility yet you still want to continue being physical with this other woman, Astaghfirullah.
      May Allah (swt) protect women particularly Muslim women (including your daughter and sisters) from men like yourself who are so lost in worldly desires and lust for women by SHAYTAN that they forget their purpose in dunya and treat women (who are mothers, daughters, sisters etc etc) this lowly. All you are is a sugar daddy and living a haram relationship and taking advantage of a woman in need. This is not called marriage since it wasn't made public, I only pray that may Allah (swt) guide you because men like yourself give Islam and Muslim men in particular a bad name and make things worse for them. Amin.

      Muhammad1982,
      Editor, IslamicAnswers.com

    • brother wael,

      i completely agree with your advice except for one thing. why did u even gave him the option of divorcing his secong wife?

      wife isn't an object and she seems to come from a family with a weak financial background. i don't know about her age but the society that she's coming from, it will be very hard for her to re-marry.

      the poster above made mistakes and committed sins and now he wants to improve by "erasing" them, by divorcing his 2nd wife. that is so unfair.After reading the post, i felt he hails from pakistan.. and in his later posts he confirmed it.

      i tell u what.. this is what happens in Pakistan GENERALLY. Old wealthy men marrying younger poor women in secret and then leaving them at their own convinience. where was his love for the first wife when he was having an affair with her for 6 years?!

      Now, i don't mean to be biased, i don't know the man or the woman personally. but I, think it's not his responsibilty to provide for her family. she shouldn't be demanding a house for her family, makes me doubt her intentions BUT if her intentions are innocent and she doesn't mean to plunder her wealth which i THINK he fears at the back of his mind, then isn't divorce an unfair option for her.

      i read some comments below who conviniently said to divorce the 2nd wife, as if 2nd wife is an inferior human just because the word "second" comes before wife.

      what were the terms of agreement at the time of their marriage? Since he didn't include his family, he must have made some compensations, had he made any agreements to support her family? or she would live with her family after marriage? he must have made some promises, some agreements at the time of marriage, what were those?

      Although, some people are trying to sound objective but they are NOT really being objective in giving him advice.

      He already took a step towards hurting his 1st wife when he started the extra-marital affair.. It's like he already threw a brick or an arrow towards her and now he wants the arrow to vanish in thin air before hitting her, but the damage is already been done. If he really wants to improve, if he really wants to mend his ways, if he really wants to please Allah.. he should come clean, keep Both his wives and try to to treat them with justice as God has commanded.

  5. i agree with wael divorce your second wife and let her be and go back to your first wife.

    • no option is allowed in islam for you to keep lying and you are selfish for your own needs no one deserves to be treated this way its just wrong FACT.

  6. Wael and Muhammad1982 you have both assessed me correctly which i did not realise until I read the all the posts and has made me realise the fault is within myself and you have all provided me with good advice and showed a true picture of myself. I am somewhat shaken as well as i had no one to guide me correctly. because of you i am now seing things very clearly.

    I will try my level best to follow the right path. Given the two options, to either declare or divorce the 2nd wife, I am really scared of declaring my second wife as i am 100% sure my 1st wife will leave me and this will break my family apart and i might even become an outcaste within my family structure. I have also rethought over and dont want to divorce my 2nd wife as she will be very hurt and will have breakdown. I have also realised that i do love my 2nd wife very much and i was probably very angry when she refused to shift out with me.

    Is there a 3rd way? that i continue to remain secretly married with my 2nd wife and live upto my full responsibilities while managing 2nd wife fairly as she does want to continue living with her family and wants to remain married to me.

    I dont think i even deserve to be forgiven for what i have done. I have also realised how ugly I am from the inside. i will try to change and god willing i will be able to make it. Please help me and guide me to change.

    Lastly, i have just started learning namaz /salah and starting to gradually move towards the deen and need to make a true and sincere tawbah for the sins I have committed in my life and need some enliightment and guidance towards that end and what should i do. I also have to admit that I still have Shaitan residing in my mind which I am fighting out and I will try to come out of it.

    i truly regret what i have done.. which is no way justifiable but i really want to do whatever i can so that Allah forgives me for my sins.

    • Brother ahmedali, I am impressed by your sincere and humble response. Alhamdulillah, having an awareness of your mistakes is the first step to doing better.

      However, feeling guilty is not enough. You must choose an honest and open way of life that does not involve ongoing deception and lies.

      Keep on doing your salat and becoming a better Muslim.

      Wael
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

    • Assalam O Alaikum brother Ahmedali,
      First of all, I sincerely apologize for coming as harsh without realizing that you are just a brother who is misguided rather than many brothers out there who are cheating women and Islam in the name of marriage and their rights in marriage. Secondly, keep striving to learn more about Islam, if you repent sincerely and honestly and truly want to change for good then believe me Allah (swt) will make a way out for you. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way out, you should pray istikhara, and approach your first wife with trust in Allah (swt) that HE will help you in this situation. As hard as it may, you don't have a choice other than requesting/begging forgiveness from your first wife for breaking her confidence/trust in you by marrying behind her back.
      Speak to your local imam or find a Muslim counselor to help you out in your situation. It's good that you don't want to divorce your second wife, if you both agree to current arrangements than Alhamdullilah it's up to you both. If she has genuine reason for not leaving her parents than you should cooperate with her until situation changes and she can move out. Also, don't be afraid and trust in Allah (swt) who will iA show you a way out. I will pray for you iA.

      May Allah (swt) guide you in all the problems that come your way and help you learn more about your deen and implement it in your life and in the life of your family. Amin

      Muhammad1982,
      Editor, IslamicAnswers.com

      • Dear Brother Muhammad1982,

        Thank you for your advice.

        Would you please let me know how to pray for istikhara so that I get the correct guidance. I will also discuss with the Imam and will try to locate Muslim counselor for Karachi Pakistan.. Incase if you can recomend me that would be great as i am based in Karachi.

        Please keep me in your prayers and may only that happen whichever is right in the eyes of Allah.

        • Assalam O Alaikum bro,
          Sorry for my late reply, I was bit busy yesterday and couldn't reply. Yes, that's right, consult Imam in your local mosque and speak to him about your situation only if he is someone you can trust who will keep it confidential until you decide what you want to do. Whether you decide to keep the "second wife and inform your first wife" or "want to divorce the second wife"; choice is yours. All I want you to do is that do not make a hasty decision or one based on biased advice, because you will have to live with it all your life. As I can see that you are going back and forth on your decision on whether to keep the second wife or divorce her, only shows that you are not sure yet.
          So, take your time, speak to friends/family or people around you who you trust, meaning who have your best interest and then pray Istikhara too to achieve the clarity iA. Here is the link;

          http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/salat-ut-tasbeeh/ (English).

          http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/salat-al-istikhara-the-guidance-prayer/salat-al-istikhara-in-urdu/ (Urdu)

          http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/salat-al-istikhara-the-guidance-prayer/salat-al-istikhara-in-arabic/ (Arabic).

          May Allah (swt) help you make the right decision by HIS guidance iA for this life and hereafter.

          Muhammad1982,
          Editor, IslamicAnswers.com

          • Thank you for your advice.

            I will perform Istekhara.

            Once i have performed it then what happens? How do i get the guidance? can i ask someone else to perform this for me as well?

  7. I am so good to advice Islamic way but in this situation. I recommend u to declair your 2 nd marriage cuz if u remain secret. Children from your 2 wives may effected when they meet or etc.. Problem In future. Remember that every secret have a cost one way or another. So accept true by now and whatever will happen it will happen for good afte you done the right thing. About your 1st wife will leave u or ur family breaking apart is just what u guess. if u secret 2nd wife still she is being unfair in islamic.

  8. Let me give you a perspective from the child (tho am not a child anymore, am 30 years old now, married and with a baby myself)

    if you want to ruin your first wife and ruin the lives of your 3 children, then go ahead and stay married to the 2nd wife. In this day of age, there is NO benefit that comes out of having a second wife. With all due respect, you are selfish and you only married the 2nd wife out of lust and to make ur haram acts "halal". Also, she is a gold digger. You are not responsible to take care of her family and yet she sucked you in to it like a loser. this is not an honest wife.

    Your first wife, sacrificed and took care of you and your 3 children and this is how you pay her back? You had no justifiable islamic excuse to marry a second wife (even if you can financially support both). Majority of men these days are abusing the rule that a may MAY marry more than one. Its become a game, held in secret and with no purpose other than lust and selfishness.

    1. you love your first wife, there is nothing wrong with her, (she is healthy, and can take care of you and your children).

    2. your 2nd marriage is in secret. and it WILL come out and you WILL destroy everything with your second wife and YOUR children WILL HATE YOU. they will never forgive u for what you have done and they are the ones who you will depend on in old age. is this what you want? who do you think will accept you first when you are sick? ur 1st wife or 2nd? believe me, the 1st wife will be the first one to take care of you and the 2nd one will go running away from the responsibility. She does not love you for you, she loves you for your money pockets. wake up !

    3. do you think that all the lies, secrets, selfishness, etc etcccccccccccccccccc that is happening now and will continue to happen to hide your 2nd marriage from your 1st will be a good thing? all because to satisfy some desire? you are 47 years old. for how much longer you think you will have this desire? marriage and people's feelings is not a game to be played with.

    4. you are taking part of inheritance of your children and giving it to the 2nd wife (whom is a secret) if you die. is this fair? your 1st wife will be sharing your wealth (after you die) with the 2nd whom u've known for a few years compared to 22 years. is this fair?

    please brother dont make the BIG mistake my father did. except in my father's case. we found out about his secret and it ruined our family. we are 5 children and we all hate him for what he did to us and our mother. you will be sick and age faster because of all the fighting and problems with your 1st wife and 2nd wife once the secret comes out. trust will be 100% lost and your kids will no longer want to associate with you.

    is it really worth it? please take everyone's advice from above. if you intend to continue in secret then DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN with the 2nd wife and divorce her !

    do a search on this website, you will see other posts on this topic and how there is no good that comes out of it.

    may Allah forgive me for anything wrong i may have said above.

  9. I will pray for Allah's guidance in this to help me decide and do whatever is the best way forward in his eyes to either divorce her or declare the marriage or least of all marriage in secrecy which is not desirable at all for me.

    Based on experience of SisterR I dont want that to happen with me and my family and i am now more leaning towards divorcing because i dont want to hurt my 1st wife and my children.

    However, if i chose to declare my 2nd wife, how can i break the news to my 1st wife so that she agrees to it without feeling of any hurt. How should i talk to my kids which are nearly adults now. Also after my death what steps can i take to prevent my 2nd wife to take part of my wealth which i have kept for my family from 1st wife. I can set aside a reasonable portion for her.

    Something else also has happened shortly after i posted on this forum, my relationship with my 2nd wife for further strained as she raised tantrum (there are also issues but brevity its shortened) and asked me to finance her trip (but only for her tickets and visa) to Dubai as she wants to travel with her sister and brother and she doesnt want me to come along only on this trip.. probably she wants to have some space. I am now financing this trip and not very happy about it as i am unwanted here.... My 1st wife ha started looking very attractive after she started her exersizes and she is so nice to me all the time that i have started feeling guilty.. and very very guilty and ashamed of myself.

    You see I am currently on learning curve and do not yet have the depth and maturity and it will take me some time to evaluate myself fully and I hope and pray i get there. I need a lot of wisdom and maturity which i dont have.

    I do need prayers from all and the enljghtned ones so that I take the right decesion and only that decesion which is right in the eyes of god and for my family and also no harm be done to the 2nd wife as she gets emotional and is very sensitive whenever major issues come up.. for example she had a major fight with her elder sister few months back and she was so hurt that she attempted to do the suicide from her terrace. That got me a little scared so dont want her to get harmed.

    Can someone please help me and guide me the best way forward. There are also other micro /macro issues which I prefer not to write as it will make this email too lengthy.

    I am somewhat alone in this and also cannot share my feelings and problems with any of my friends and family due to this secrecy and I am very thankful to you all that you have allowed me to share my problems and please guide me as i am getting deserate, worried, confused and my thoughts are shifting to very extreme points of the pendulum which is also not correct i think.

    I think I am still very childish and i am not understanding the repercussions of it.

    Help me please.

  10. ahmedali

    i am very glad that you are at least you are open to suggestions and open to help AND more importantly seeing how your ways can cause a big disaster.

    there is one thing for sure

    there is absolutely NOWAY that you can make telling your first wife about the 2nd wife easier. anyway you go about it, it will hurt the first one tremendously. no wife will accept her husband to marry a second one. she will feel betrayed by you and she will feel that she wasted all those years with you in the end her husband went to another woman. my mother is very hurt and i lost part of my mom because of my dad. she is no longer happy and crying all the time. its been 5 years now and our family is broken. i feel very sad for my younger siblings who did not have a father 100% and now a mother who is sad all the time. the difference between you and my dad is till now my father is stubborn and does not see that he made mistake. he has a big ego and till now did not say sorry to my mother. and this hurts more than the marriage to 2nd wife.

    the 2nd wife has a house and car from my father. my father is taking care of her AND her children from another man. she is travelling and living life as a queen. while i have a brother who is married and living with us and another older brother who is not married. so who is more deserving of the wealth? i think my two brothers should have a house for to get married.. but no, its the 2nd wife taking all of this.

    it will happen to you sir. this 2nd wife already seems to be demanding that you take care of her family. does she have children from previous relationships? am surprised she isnt trying to get pregnant to "seal" the relationship with you. she is sharing your wealth from ur children and ur 1st wife. and she will get greedy for more. she will show herself to be the best to you. but this is all an act. she will try to scare u by committing suicide but this is between her and Allah and it is haram for her to do so.

    i cannot tell you what to do and only giving you my advice. the skheikh told my father that what he did was very wrong and that if any of his children committed suicide or did a crime because of my father married to 2nd women that it will be on his head and his responsibility. and that if my mother committed suicide or something it will be on his head because in marriage of 30+ years he was intrusted to take care of her infront of Allah and this is how he does it....?

    I moved out of my parents house becuas ei couldnt handle it anymore. i was depressed and crying every day, just like my mom. i used to be so polite to my father and now am talking back and other times i do not even say one word. i cannot look at him without thinking about his 2nd wife. he is lying 24/7 and we know it but he thinks he is doing a good job keeping secret . he lost his prestige in the community, he is loosing his wealth, relying on credit cards and loans to take care of the family, and there is no benefit coming out of anything..

    please think long and hard about the write decision and think about your children #1. and islamically if you are still married to 2nd wife, when you die, you HAVE to share your wealth with her. that is the sharia. thus taking away from your children.

    are you living in the west? like canada, usa or europe? do you know its illegal to be married to more than one in these countries? so even tho we follow the islam. if your "secret" is out, you can also be legally held responsible and go to jail and if your 1st wife is mad (am sure she will be) when she finds out, she will be happy to see you in jail. basically your life will be ruined.

    as you can see there is no benefit at all in this second marriage of yours except for a few hours of lust that you can have in halal happy way with your first wife.

    may Allah guide you and all of us to the right path and forgive our sins.. Amen.

    by the way, if you do decide to divorce your 2nd wife... yes her feelings may hurt and she will threaten you with suicide. (this is more likely an act and she is trying to manipulate you). you can explain to her that your wife found out and she is is threatening you with divorce and that you have chosen your first one because of the wellbeing of the children. (of course!)

    you may also be hurt a little bit and miss the 2nd wife but rest assured. you saved yourself and your beloved children from yearssssssssssssssssssss of hurt, regret and hatting you (their father).. like what has happened to my family. so dont let this happen to you please.

    lahawala kowata illa billah

  11. also, i wanted to mention. if you do decide to divorce the 2nd wife.. do not tell your 1st wife (After the fact).

    let bygones be bygones and do not say.."oh by the way, i was married and i got divorced in secret". if your 1st wife didnt find out, this is satir from Allah and its a protection.

  12. Dear SisterR

    I am based in Karachi Pakistan.

    My 2nd wife wants to have a child and she was unable to concieve as yet and that was another issue of problems we were having in relationship as both me and her have been visiting fertility doctors and found out that I have lower fertility and she is desperate to have child and has a loving personality, my fertiliy test results is showing improvements gradually. She was never married before and has no kids. She doesnt want any part of my wealth but only wants me to maintain her and her family's basic needs and she is willing to give this in writing. this is the first time I have spent on her overseas trip for herself travelling with her family without me as her other married sister is partly funding the trip for her jointly with me as she plans to travel with her sister's married family (i.e. husband, wife and a child), wife's brother and herself and doesnt want me around this time as we had tension in our relationship as i blamed her that she is more attached to her family than me and i wanted that attachment to get transferred to me and shift with me in another apartment and she didnt like this approach of mine and wants some space so she can recover from our recent strained relationship as we had a major fight over this issue on several occassions .

    Incase if i divorce her, i prefer to continue to support her till such time she gets a proper job or she is able to support herself as dont want her and her family to fall so down that she has to resort to other wrong ways in desperation to support themselve (which used to happen previously). I might even end up finding a spouse for her so that its done and over as dont want anyone to curse me of leaving them stranded and ensure she gets finally settled and then i am out and move on with life with my 1st wife.

    How much share of wealth do i need to give my 2nd wife as per Shariah prior to my death?

    I need some guidance from Allah to help me in deciding what I should do, for the time being i am 70% decided to divorce the 2nd wife whom i love (but we both dont have warmth in relationship as yet), but my love is more towards my 1st wife and kids and there is no way i want to hurt my 1st wife and kids.

  13. who was supporting ur wife and her family before you came along? its not fair that they pin support on you. It is only your responsibility to support her not her family and she cannot put this pressure on you. but if you do it, it is out of ajar and extra good deed to support her mom and dad as well but its not ur responsibility. now, after divorce, it shouldnt be ur responsibility at all. your responsibility is towards your 1st wife and children. you mentioned she resorted to inappropriate ways to earn money? i dont want to imagine what that is and this is the kind of woman you want to have children with? anyway i cannot judge and i hope whatever hardship she went through is cleared. does she not have brothers? who was supporting her and her parents before you? They cannot rely on you. You can become sick and not earn anymore. Anything is possible in this dunia and alhamdulah we know that rizk is from Allah.

    since you are in pakistan, for a fact 100% your secret will be out and your 1st wife will know about this 2nd marriage with time. about the shariah and wealth, your second wife is entitled to the same amount as your 1st wife. now the exact amount all depends on what you have (property, wealth etc) and split with your children etc.. you need to contact a more knowledgeable person than this in the matter. but let me ask you, do you see it fair that your 1st wife of 22 years who sacrificed and took care of 3 children will get the same wealth as your 2nd wife whom u've only known for a few years and is secret marriage with no children? surely its not fair and it will hurt your 1st wife and children greatly.

    if your decision is to divorce consult a skhikh in the area and figure things out quickly. there is no point in delaying matters further to the point ur first wife finds out and u will lose both.

    wallahu a3lam.

  14. I have already made the decesion to divorce 2nd wife and attempted yesterday and told 2nd wife that I have decided to stop seeing her and would divorce her. She raised tantrum and threatned to call my family and tell them the secret and even threatened me to take to court. I remained firm so lets see how it goes. She definately felt hurt . Her sister is trying her level best to patch up our relationship as emotions are high.

    I hope Allah guides me and provides me the wisdom and I hope i am not taking the wrong step as its probably not fair to 2nd wife as well and only doing this for my 1st wife and kids whom i dearly love. i am also feeling hurt my myself

  15. assalamalaikum-
    THIS WILL HAPPEN I TOLD YOU IN ONE OF MY COMMENT 2 DAYS BACK [IT WAS NOT PRINTED]
    AND THE PERMISSION FOR 2ND MARRIAGE IS NOT NECCASARY FROM THE 1ST WIFE.......IN ISLAM.

    The stand point of Quran is this -
    And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four.

    She raised tantrum and threatened to call my family and tell them the secret and even threatened me to take to court.

    YOU ARE MAKING A big BLUNDER WITH THIS STEP AS THE MATTER OF HIDING WILL NOT BE HIDING IT WILL BECOME THE TALK OF THE TOWN AND YOUR 1ST FAMILY WILL SUFFER YOU WILL LOOSE BOTH WIVES AND BOTH FAMILIES AND FINALLY LAND UP AS ONE SINGLE PERSON -
    RUNNING TO COURTS AND EVEN YOUR 2ND WIFE MIGHT PUT A DOWRY CASE THEN YOU WILL ARRESTED AND LAND IN JAIL-

    THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU GO FOR DIVORCE-

    REGARDS

  16. Brother Ali, sorry to interrupt your advice, but I can't understand what is the reason to make this brother scared? You are advising and on other side you also scaring him and putting him in confusions!

    His 2nd wife is not compromising with him. After seeing brother last message that his 2nd wife making trouble and threating him its not good at all. I feel that even after that he stays with his 2nd wife in future she will emotionally blackmail him easily. 

    Brother I suggest you to atleast tell about your second marriage to someone who knows you closely so that in future you can handle it strongly. I see no good future with your second wife specially when she is behaving like this.

  17. ASSALAMALAIKUM
    THIS WAS MY 1ST COMMENT I ADVISED THAT PAPER AND VERBAL BOTH ARE TALAQS SEE CAREFUULY
    ASSALAMALAIKUM -
    s it permissible in Islam to marry 2nd wife secretly within the same city and not taking permission from my 1st wife.
    PERMISSION FROM ALLAH HAS BEEN GIVEN IN THE QURAN-
    The stand point of Quran is this -
    And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
    NO PERMISSION FROM WIFE IS REQUEIRED BUT INFORMING MAY BE BETTER TO AVOID LATER CONFRONTATION AND DISPUTES OVER HER SHOCKING NEWS ABOUT YOUR 2ND MARRIAGE-
    AND WRITTING ON PAPER ALSO IS EQUAL TO DIVORCE WE CANNOT PLAY WITH TALAQ MATTER AS WE LIKE-
    REGARDS LAI
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Brother Ali, sorry to interrupt your advice, but I can't understand what is the reason to make this brother scared?
    NEW COMMENT ANSWER FOR TODDYS SENTENCE-

    I WILL KEEP QUITE SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE WILL COME FORWARD AND THEN YOU WILL THANK ME FOR TELLING ALL IN ADVANCE -

    AND THIS ATLEAST WILL KEEP HIM IN THE CITY After seeing brother last message that his 2nd wife making trouble and threating him its not good at all. I feel that even after that he stays with his 2nd wife in future she will emotionally blackmail him easily. IN THE OPEN

    She raised tantrum and threatened to call my family and tell them the secret and even threatened me to take to court.THIS SI NOT AN ORDINARY WARNING-THIS WILL MAKE BEHIND BARS JUST WAIT AND THE THE ORIGINAL COLOR WHAT WOMAN WILL DO FOR THE SHOCK HER HUSBAND GAVE NEITHER SHE WILL REST NEITHER SHE WILL ALLOW THE HUSBAND NEITHER THE 1ST WIFE NEITHER HER CHILDREN....

    MY AGE 56 YEARS I HAVE SEEN THE DOWRY CASES RESULT IN THE PENAL CODE .

    THEY TAKE THE STORY OF THE GIRLS SIDE AND THE ONES WHO ARE IN THE SEATS ARE HINDUS THEY HATE POLYGAMY FROM THE BOTTOM OF THEIR HEART AND SEE THAT THE CULPRIT IS SHATTERED AND HARASSED IN ALL RESPECTS-
    DEAR NADIA-
    I WILL NOT WRITE AFER THSI YOU WRITE TO ME AFTER THE HUSBAND WRITES HIS SRORY OF DIVORCING THE 2ND WIFE

    AND I DIDNT MARRY A 2ND WIFE -Brother I suggest you to atleast tell about your second marriage to someone who knows you closely................................ THIS IS FOR YR KIND INFORMATION-

    REGARDS
    ALI

  18. your writing in CAPS is annoying sorry. I couldnt read it properly.. anyway.

    1. There are no secret marriages in Islam. One of the criteria's for a valid marriage is for witnesses and for it to be public so that if someone sees this man with a woman, it is known to be his wife and not a girlfriend or haram relationship. So do not encourage him to go on in secret.

    2. He does not want this 1st wife to know because it will break that marriage up and destroy his 3 children. So he is stuck and the lesser of two evils is divorce the 2nd wife whom he has no children with.

    3. No secret can stay a secret for ever. this is reality. even if he stays marriage to the 2nd wife, eventually the 1st wife will find out and it will ruin his 1st marriage because A. He is married to a second woman B. its secret and the 1st wife will be badly hurt that her husband has fooled her all these years. Its less painful to find out after the fast that he WAS married and divorced the 2nd after he realized his mistake. At least the 1st wife might forgive him if she found out.

    4. Islamically he is allowed to marry more than 1. BUT with very strict conditions. As we know already he MUST be able to deal with them justly and provide for both of them EQUALLY. It is unacceptable to treat one wife differently or favor one more than other in terms of finances, time and husband duties. This is next to impossible to do and sooner or later he will know his limits.

    5. the 2nd wife is not treating him well and is giving him threats and ultimatums. He needs to understand that she is married to him for benefits. He supports her family when he is not obligated to do so. And now she is threatening to call his 1st wife and cause trouble. Is this the kind of wife that is proper? Did she really think that he will favor her over his 1st wife of 22 years with 3 children. She needs a reality check and he need not me scared of her threats. Whatever happens to him, he will suffer the consequences for his actions. Frankly if he did wrong to her, he will get his punishment from Allah.

    In the end, the ONLY innocent people are is 1st wife and children. They did nothing wrong and they will suffer. Because of his selfishness.

    I only gave what happened to my family as an example to learn from it. In the end the decision is his to make. To divorce or not.

    I pray to Allah to forgive me for saying anything wrong and to not put the blame on my head for any wrong outcomes. Rabi ehdena seratal mustakeem. Amen

    Wallahu a3lam.

  19. Dear All

    There were recent developments after the last post.

    I am sorry for the lengthy explanation and would have prefered a short straight cut comment. i am mentioning below incidents so that i can explain what i am currently going through and I am hoping and praying that allah gives me the strength, wisdom and courage to take the right decesion. I have also gone through the comments above but havent read these in depth.

    After my last post, things heated up and they cursed me and my family and wanted me to feel the pain and cursed me to lose my wealth and it sounded like as if they will go to someone and do black magic on me, my business and my family. i dont think they meant it as they were angry.

    After tempers cooled I again patched up however it again got strained as my 2nd wife still refused me to come along with her to Dubai vacation trip despite my patchup and my financing of her trip upto 75% with great dificulty as was arranging its funding and balance was being arranged by her sister. She anted me to finance 100% of the trip, I could have arranged more funding for her if i travelled with her through my seperate work related air travel allowance.. she just didnt want me around and I felt lost out and somewhat dejected despite my repeated objections of not to travel without me after patch up (and she behaved so coldly towards me but promised to travel with me on my other trips as she wanted to keep this private without me but included is her sister, her sister's husband and their child and her brother but not me and I felt as if i am some outsider).. so i got angry yet again and I refused to finance beyond 75% as it was already agreed earlier that her sister would pay remaning part of it as i couldnt arrange beyond it.. she again raised a tantrum and our relatioinship got strained again . As a result out of her frustration towards me this time around her sister called me to show her dissatisfaction and says she felt hurt and asked me to give her divorce to her and asked me to pay the meher amount (it might be tactic as i am now realizing this but I might be wrong also) to which i agreed immediately as i had already made up my mind to divorce her earlier however later that night they again started texting utlimatums and threats for informing 1st wife and and also give me threat of going to courts and i again went through the same drama. However her sister called that night and once again told me to drop by the house the next day to settle matters amicably to which i stupidly agreed.

    The next morning 2nd wife called me to apologize and told me that she dont know how come she got aggresive and asked me to drop by as if nothing had happened and she seemed pleasant.. i was confused what i should do and I was in turmoil internally but was willing to give this the last chance but i was also looking for an apportunity if Allah can somehow help me to divorce 2nd wife as i was unhappy for what was happening. I gave them the impression that i am coming to 2nd wife house with the intent of patch up. I prayed as i was travelling towards her house.

    But then events took a different turn.. Her sister sent me the message to remind me to bring the money for the 2nd wife's trip while coming to her house. I got very angry with the "bring money money" attitude and i sent message back to my 2nd wife that i was unable to arrange any money and i want her to cancel the trip altogether for me and I probably acted weird and i bravely reached her home as i was expecting the worst to happen. On reaching her house i gave impression of patching up and her sister told me that its ok not to pay the money but she will take along my 2nd wife with her to Dubai. I told them that i dont want 2nd wife to travel at all and my decesion is final and i was probably behaving weird and her sister got very offended and started shouting at me and told me to divorce her so i again agreed to it and i walked out and she wouldnt let me go and even manhandled me as she wanted to keep on shouting and discuss the matters. I forcefully i left her home and i again started receiving threats that they will come to my office with lawyers and they will teach me a lesson and i told them they can do whatever they like. Later on that night i strangely became wierd and started calling 2nd wife and she would not pick my phone and i sent a message that i coming to her on Monday and i want her to stay ready as i am going to make her shift into an apartment and shift her away from her family. I think she got very worried and upset and texted me that she wants me to divorce her... the more i texted that I want her to shift to an apartment in wierd manner the more she wanted me out.. i thanked Allah for making this happen. She thinks i am madly in love and i have mentally somewhat flipped out become a cyco case which isnt really correct.

    They are now interested that i divorce her and pay the meher amount . I am hoping and praying this really happens and i hope and pray she doesnt black mail me in future as dont want to hurt my 1st wife. I have lost trust and faith in her due to above incidents.

    My eyes have opened up and everything is very clear in front me and I have now very deeply fallen in love with my 1st wife and felt very guilty of what i have done to her. My 1st wife yearns for me and gets depressed whenever I am not around her and she fills with joy whenever I am with her and I also have 3 great beautiful kids 2 of them are now adults and i dread to see the day what will happen after my death on my wealth disputes as the 2nd wife sister and her sister is very scary when she gets upset and 2nd wife is very loyal to her family. My 1st wife comforted me as i was looking tensed up and hugged me and calmed me down... i was such a fool.

    Based on above events I will divorce my 2nd wife and i am now hoping and praying that this gets resolved amicably and quitely as i am willing to pay her the meher in line with my nika nama papers and she also now wants divorce from me. I will be calling today and hoping and praying this gets settled. I am hope and pray i am doing the right thing and I pray to Allah to makes events in such manner that whetever happens is should be right and correct in the eyes of Allah. I am completely leaving everything to him.

    Dear Brother Ali: In Pakistan polygamy is accepted and but not so common in cities.... say its around 15% of Karachi population i guess. But i am worried about going to jail. Are you sure if this applies in Pakistan as I dont want to land in a jail? In Pakistan the girl's parent give dowry but i never asked for any dowry.

    I have to say that you have all opened my eyes and it was great to see a crossection of views from everyone. I am finally seeing the light in the tunnel and i will inshallah come out of it.

    I am sorry for the lenghty comments as i dont have anyone to share these feeling and you are probably the only ones i have got . You are all a real asset to the Muslim Ummah and my only friends in this planet with whom I can share my feelings.

    Lastly, I still have shaitan within me because each time i try to start learning the Salah (namaz) i find myself feeling tired both from mind and body. i know i will get over this and need prayers.

    Thank you.... thank you so so very much.

    • Dear Brother Ali: In Pakistan polygamy is accepted and but not so common in cities.ASSALAMALAIKUM.MY EXPERIENCE IS WITH THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GRUDGE TO TAKE SPITES-IF YOU ARE DOING AN AMICABLE SETTLEMENT SEE THAT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARGUED WITH YOU SIGNAND ACCKNOLEDGE THE RECIEPT OF THE SETLLMENT AMOOUNT OR WAHT EVER IS THERE AND ALSO SEE THE SOME LAWYER MAKES AND ANTI DOWRY ZERO CLAIM DOCUMENT WHICH WILL HELP YOU KEEP ALOOF FROM THEM IN YR LIFE AND AFTER YOUR LIFE ALSO-

      HOPE THE POINT IS CLEAR.....I REPLIED BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED ABOUT YOU AND EVERYTHING I CAN PICTURISE FROM HERE-
      REGARDS ALI

      • Thank you for your advice and will follow up with the lawyer.

        I also never received any dowry from 2nd wife and i never wanted that as well.

        • Thankfully the 2nd wife agreed to divorce me last night and she hates me for what I have done to her and thinks I am a very mean person. I need to ask for her forgiveness after the divorce and even i feel hurt as well as I did love her and still do and I will hopefully get over it one day.

          I also need to seek forgiveness from Allah for what I have done and need guidance towards this.

          I am now hoping and praying that the divorce formalities are carried out amicably, properly and there is adequate protection for myself as i am desperate bring my life back on track and want to spend the rest of my life with my 1st wife and kids.

          Dear SisterR: I want to thank you for providing me the insight how a daughter feels .. one of my daughter is 18 years old

          I hope and pray that this is all over and is left behind me.

          • subhanallah how everything changed around for you.

            you asked Allah to show you the truth and to make it clear for you and in fact it was your 2nd wife who pushed for the divorce and you have seen very clearly what kind of woman she is and her family for abusing your generosity and not respecting you as her husband. You were blinded by lust and this is not true love, so dont worry you will forget about her very quickly. your true love, is your 1st wife who has been beside you all these years.

            Since you have an 18 year old daughter. she would have been hurt the most. I hope she never finds out what you did. I am glad my example gave you some help. I am still suffering from what my father did. Because of my father i do not trust any men. I am unhappy every time i see him and because i am so attached to my mother, i cry every time i see her cry and i secretly cry myself in my room every time i remember. You are smarter than my father. You asked for help and you got divorced before its too late. My father is big headed man who is still married to the 2nd wife out of fear because she is holding something against him. For the rest of my life i will see that my father chose 2nd wife over his own children. My father is 57 and he looks 70. He is not at peace, stressed out all the time and in fights and trouble everyday from both families. my siblings are all emotionally sick and isolated. I am avoided my friends because already have a few ppl find out about this secret and coming to me and I am saying its a lie. I keep to myself and so do my siblings. as i told you before i moved out of my parents house... but have now returned.

            i dont want to say more what has happened. nothing good came out of what my father did an dam happy that you will avoid a bigger mess like what has happened to us. I pray Allah helps us and brings happiness back to our family especially my mother 🙁

            walhamdulah for everything

  20. ASSALAMALAIKUM-
    I also never received any dowry from 2nd wife and i never wanted that as well.

    THIS EVERYONE KNOWA THAT YOU GAVE AS PER ISLAMIC TRADITION THE MEHAR AND MORE FECILITIES O HER -BUT EVRYTHING IS LOST THE GIRLS SIDE USE THIS TOOL TO HARASS YOU -
    THERE IS A OLD SAYING

    ULTTA CHOR KOTWAL KO DAANTTE-

    SO MAKE PROPER PAPER WORK WITH LAWYER AND SEE THAT SHE[2ND WIFE] IS COMFORTABLE SO THAT YOU ARE NOT HELP BY ALLAH FOR SOME SMALL DEMANDS OF THIS WORLD IN MAJOR DEMAND OF THE HEREAFTER-

    REGARDS
    ALI-

    • I have spoken to the lawyer and you were right .. he is preparing the document to be signed by both parties as this will help me from future court litigations .

      Meanwhile, I also called 2nd wife to send me the nikanama (marriage contract) as she had kept its original. She was crying and felt bad for what has happened and requested me to wait for few days as her mother became very sick since last night due to this incident (actually she never approved the way her daughters behaved with me) and her mother is in state of shock once she saw her daugther is about to get divorced as she always liked me as i used to pay for her mother's full medical treatments... the 2nd wife also said that she is now very worried for her future and she is peniless and she doesnt know what struck her to get so unpleasant (which is true she isnt normally so unpleasant). She really gave me hell yesterday and there is no way i want my kids to experience that.

      This is Allah's given opportunity for me to get out of this wedlock and i will definately do that and she also knows i am upset and she also realizes that she has goofed up big time and she has started showing signs of desperation that she wants to stick with me. Interestingly her sister was shouting at her while she was on phone crying out and pleading me as both sisters felt offended why the 2nd wife is pleading me and she is now probably not listening to them anymore and she has probably realised that it was her sisters who were instrumental of the breakup between me and her. In my heart I think it wasnt her fault, it was almighty Allah which created this situation for me to get out of it.

      I told her that I will not change my mind and my decesion is final. Since i really do care for her old mother (and she is a sick god fearing lady and very wise from an old school of thought) i agreed as courtesy to hold on for a 1 to 2 days. I also told her that I will continue to pay for her mother's treatment and as courtesy I will continue to provide limited support after divorce with fixed weekly amounts via bank transfer for a while until she can stand on her feet. I also dont want her to curse me and my family and also dont want her to feel I am a bad person. I want her to remember me as a kind hearted and caring person.

  21. assalamalikum
    if i was in your place the best thing to do is to make some investment [ammount of mhar]and see that business gives her the source so that seh and her family survuve and once she finds soomeone to marry she can proceed so that you end up with her but with this-65:1) O Prophet, when you divorce women, divorce them for their waiting-period, *1 and compute the waiting period accurately, *2 and hold Allah, your Lord, in awe. Do not turn them out of their homes (during the waiting period) – nor should they go away (from their homes) *3– unless they have committed a manifestly evil deed. *4 Such are the bounds set by Allah; and he who transgresses the bounds set by Allah commits a wrong against himself. You do not know: maybe Allah will cause something to happen to pave the way (for reconciliation). *5
    "If you have to divorce your wives, you should divorce them till the expiry of their waiting-period".
    http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/065.htm

  22. Dear Brother Ali

    Are you suggesting I divorce her after she has found someone to marry? My concern is that I may not get this opportunity again and I prefer to get over this and in the meantime continue to pay for her support as the mahar amount of approx $1100 wont be enough to start business or provide the required income stream. She already stays with her family and never wanted to move out with me as I wanted to take the full responsibiity of hers. One of her brother has also lost job and I am trying to find a job for him.. again her sisters were upset of arranging an interview for him coinciding with his trip to dubai as if i am trying to stop him to go to dubai.

    I know their family financial needs and requirements and I guess if i divorce and continue with the full support payments only for her mainteance (and mother's treatment) that should be OK?

    I need to clearly understand the waiting period and will read the link you have provided as noted there is an element of reconciliation.... that would have been only possible if she starts showing maturity, love and comitment towards me and putting me above everything else and not her family and sisters and i have started seeing some signs of it and i am guessing she is not there yet. But i have also realised marriage in secrecy is the worst thing to do and i have gone through hell and its always best to seek permission from 1st wife and provide her the level of comfort. If she is feeling hurt or if family is breaking apart then its not worth it.

    • You have to understand that this lady is going to try very hard to make you feel bad. Dont fall into this trap. She knows VERY well that when she married you that this will not last and especially that your priority is your 1st wife and children. In my experience, no 2nd marriage lasts. The man always returns to his first wife and kids.

      i dont think aliyousuf was telling you to wait for her to find a husband and then divorce her. That is NOT right. I think he meant the "3edda". In islam, when you divorce a woman, she must wait the 3edda time before marrying again. This is to make sure if she is pregnant or not etc. During this 3eddah, she cannot marry anyone and you may return to her as her husband in that time if you feel you made a wrong decision about divorce. But other wise, after the 3edda is finished. Divorce is final and she may marry someone else if she wishes. Its absurd if you wait for her to find a husband. Also you are doing them a GREAT favor by continuing to pay for their livelihood and old mother's medical bills. Consider this hassanats and sadaqa. and may Allah accept them from you. but let me just warn you that she may give you trouble as well, if your late with your money or she may complain its not enough. It seems this is the kind of behaviour she and her family has and you must stand strong and know that what you are doing is already extra and not required of you to finance your ex-wife and her family's life. Your ex-wife's parents are responsible for her. Her brothers are responsible for her, her uncles etc. Not you, once you divorce her. That is islam and they should accept that and not put pressure on you. you already have a 1st wife and children and they should respect that and leave you alone.

      again any details of islamic divorce etc you should consult with skhikh.

      may Allah help us all to guide us in the right path. amen

  23. Assalamalaikum-
    For the rest of my life i will see that my father chose 2nd wife over his own children
    THIS IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAM AND SHARIAH NO HUMAN BEING ON EARTH HAS THE AUTHORITY TO THINK EVEN THINK AGAINTS THE RULES ALLAH PUT IN SHARIAH-

    AND DUE TO THIS YOU ARE UNNECCASARY CRYING AS THIS 2ND MARRIAGE IS YR REASON OF HURT-ASTONISHING-

    PL PONDER OVER THE LIFE OF PROPHET SALAHAUALAHAIWASLALAMAIM DID HAZRAT FATIMA BEEN CYRING LIKE YOU IAR NAY OTHER DAUGHTERS OF OTHER WIVES-
    THEN FROM DID YOU GET THIS PRECEDENCE-
    Precedent that must be applied or followed is known as binding precedent (alternatelymandatory precedent, mandatory or binding authority
    Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, "Whoever among you live (for long time) will see many difference, I URGE YOU TO FOLLOW MY SUNNAH & THE WAY OF THE RIGHTLY GUIDED KHALEEFAS who come after me. Hold on to it firmly. Beware of newly invented matters, for every innovation is going astray." {Ahmad 4/126, Tirmidhee 2676}
    SO BE CAREFUL YOU MIGHT LIVE A LIFE OF DEFYING ALLAH AND SHARIAH AS LONG AS YOU CRY AS IF YOUR FATHER DID ACRIME-IF YOU GO ON DANCING ON YR WHIMS AND FANCIES AND YOUR THINKING MUCH AGAINST THE PATTERN OF NABI SALALAHUALAIHIWASALAM AND HIS ZOUJAS-

    EGARDS

    • why do you always right in CAPS its hard to read and you sound angry. You attack me without knowing my story. I am not saying anything or complaining of sharia. I am a muslim girl, practicing alhamdulah and trust my religion 100%. I am simply letting the poster know what happened in my life and my emotions. I never said sharia is wrong or what the prophet did is wrong ASTAGHFIRLLAH !!! My father is not the prophet and he did a BIG mistake. Having relation with a women not married to her. He did not go about his way marriage islamically or following the prophet example. My father is still married in secret etc. of course this made me sad and my father chose his 2nd wife over his children because when I begged him to stop what he was doing and return to us he accused me of telling lies said no. I was the first in my family to know my father was talking with a women not being married to her. This is NOT what the prophet did. The prophet is perfect creation of Allah and I WISH my father follow his example !! This is what hurts me and makes me cry BECAUSE my father did a big mistake, haram. Do you think this will not hurt my feelings? do you not have your own children? surely this is something that can kill any child's heart to see their father doing something wrong. use your common sense before you accuse me of something ill.

      Hasbiyallah wa na3mal wakeel.

      btw i am sunni muslim wearing hijab praying etc etc following as much as i can the example of the prophet so am well aware of whats right and wrong.

      • lahawala kowata illa billah. How easy it is for people to jump on others accusing them of wrong and implying things without even knowing the person or the situation.

        The prophet tells us to always look for the good in people, not to accuse them of wrong even if the eyes can see it. The prophet tells us to have mercy on people, to protect their emotions and be sincere and humble.

        I can say a lot more but I will stop myself. Allah knows whats it my heart and I pray that anyone who suffers emotionally or physically be granted patients and their reward in Jannah. Amen.

  24. ASSALAMALAIKUM
    Are you suggesting I divorce her after she has found someone to marry?

    i AM NOT SUGGESTING BUT AS I HAVE SEEN THE PEOPLE WHOI ARE REJECTED BY WORLDLY SOCIETY ARE PRONE TO GO AHEAD TO EARN THEIR LIVING IN DIFFERENT JOBS[WHEN PAPI PAIT KA SAWL ATHA HAI] THEY BECOME BAR DANCERS AND PROSTITUTES AND MANY WRONG THINGS IN LIFE DUE TO NO PROPER EDUCATION AND LESS CHANCES OFGOOD JOBS.

    AND COMING TO THE PAYMENT OF IDDA PERIOD THIS COMES ON YOUR SHOULDERS TILL 4MONTHS TEN DAYS-
    IT IS NOT THIS WHAT SISTER-R IS SAYING-Also you are doing them a GREAT favor by continuing to pay for their livelihood and old mother's medical bills. Consider this hassanats and sadaqa. and may Allah accept them from you.
    IT IS THIS AS PER ISLAM-
    `Iddah or a woman's post marital waiting period, is the period in which a woman waits before she may remarry to verify that she is not pregnant, or out of mourning for her deceased husband.

    Wisdom of 'Iddah and its Legitimacy:

    1. To discern whether the woman is pregnant or not.

    2. Shari`ah has ordained the period of `Iddah to avoid any confusion of lineage which may result from the woman's pressing need of marriage.

    3. The period a woman spends in `Iddah whether short or otherwise sheds light on the seriousness of marriage and how far it is a sacred bond.

    4. It allows the man and the woman to think twice before breaking up the family tie, especially in cases where divorce is revocable.

    ‘Iddah is obligatory upon every woman who leaves her husband, or whose husband leaves her, whether the cause is talaaq (divorce), annulment of the marriage or the death of the husband, except when the divorce occurs before the marriage has been consummated, in which case the woman does not have to observe ‘iddah, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no ‘Iddah [divorce prescribed period] have you to count in respect of them”
    [al-Ahzaab 33:49]

    A woman who is observing iddah following her husband’s death may go out of the house during the day to meet her needs, such as dealing with government procedures if there is no one who can do that for her. But at night she should not go out except in cases of necessity.

    Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Mughni (8/130): The woman who is observing 'iddah may go out and do errands during the day, whether she is divorced or widowed, because of the report narrated by Jaabir who said: My maternal aunt was thrice divorced and she went out to harvest her palm trees. A man met her and told her not to do that. She mentioned that to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said: “Go out and harvest your palm trees; perhaps you will give some of it in charity or do some good.” Narrated by al-Nasaa’i and Abu Dawood.

    ok these links would help you.....i did my best to find them:P
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/101546
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/81139
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/12667
    http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/5163....this link is talking about khul'a(woman divorce herself from her husband)maybe you don't know about it.

  25. ASSALAMALAIKUM
    SEE THIS IF IT HELPS TO UNDERSTAND THE PAYMENT OF IDDA PERIOD-
    Praise be to Allaah.
    It is not permissible to refer for judgment to anything but the sharee’ah of Allaah, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission” [al-Nisa’ 4:65].
    Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allaah swears by His Divine Self that no one truly believes unless he makes the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) judge in all his affairs. What he rules is the truth which must be followed both inwardly and outwardly. Hence He says “and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission” i.e., if they refer to you for judgement and obey you inwardly so that they find in themselves no resistance against your ruling, and they follow it outwardly and inwardly, then submit to that fully with no objection, resistance or argument, as it says in the hadeeth: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, none of you (truly) believes until his desire is in accordance with what I have brought.” End quote.
    Tafseer Ibn Katheer (1/532).
    Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This oath begins with the words Fa laa (But no) which is used for emphasis, then Allaah swears by the most specific type of Lordship – which is the Lordship of Allaah to His Messenger – that the one who does not do the following things has no faith:
    1 – Referring for judgement to the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), because He says “until they make you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) judge”. The one who seeks judgement from anyone other than Allaah and His Messenger is not a believer, and is either a kaafir who is beyond the pale of Islam or a kaafir in the sense of lesser kufr.
    2 – Contentment with and acceptance of his ruling, so that they do not find in themselves any resistance against what he has decreed, rather they accept it and are content with what the Prophet(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has decreed.
    3 – That they accept with full submission, i.e., submit totally.
    Beware, O Muslim, of cancelling out your faith. End quote.
    See: Sharh al-Waasitiyyah by Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, p. 181/182.
    What this sister – in whom it seems that there is a great deal of good, based on what it says about her in the question, such as that she wears hijab – should do is refer for judgement to someone who can judge between her and her ex-husband on the basis of the laws of Allaah.
    We advise her to try again to set things straight and try to re-marry her husband, as that is in the interests of their daughter.
    As for the answer to the questions that are mentioned:
    1. Divorce occurs when the husband utters the word of divorce and it does not need a ruling from a shar’i judge let alone a ruling from one who does not rule in accordance with that which Allaah has revealed.
    2. It is not permissible to turn to man-made laws in order to prevent a man from doing that which Allaah has permitted; that is a transgression against him and is wronging him. This sister should fear Allaah and remember that wrongdoing will be darkness on the Day of Resurrection.
    3. After the end of the ‘iddah, the divorced woman is not entitled to any maintenance or accommodation. Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (7/145): Accommodation and maintenance are only due to a woman from her husband in the case of a revocable divorce. End quote.
    4. If it is known that she is not entitled to any maintenance or accommodation, then what she is taking from the man on the orders of the court, which is not given by him willingly, is haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent” [al-Nisa’ 4:29].
    And because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every Muslim is sacred to his fellow-Muslim, his blood, his wealth and his honour.” Narrated by Muslim.
    Based on that, she should return it to him or ask him to let her off.
    5. Custody of the daughter before she reaches the age of seven years is her mother’s right, so long as she is Muslim and trustworthy, and has not remarried. Imam Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Mughni (8/190): If the couple separate, and they have a child who is still a minor or disabled, his mother has the most right to custody of him if she fulfils all the conditions, whether the child is male or female. This is the view of Yahya al-Ansaari, al-Zuhri, al-Thawri, Maalik, al-Shaafa’i, Abu Thawr, Ishaaq and ashaab al-ra’y, and we do not know of anyone who disagreed with them. End quote.
    6. Maintenance of the daughter is a shar’i obligation on her father, even if she is in her mother’s custody, because of the report narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim from ‘Aa’ishah, that Hind bint ‘Utbah said: O Messenger of Allaah, Abu Sufyaan is a miserly man who does not give me enough for myself and my child, except for that which I take without his knowledge. He said: “Take that which will suffice for you and your child, on a reasonable basis.” This indicates that the maintenance of the children is their father’s duty, and that the maintenance should be based on what is sufficient, and she has no right to take more than what is sufficient.
    And Allaah knows best.

  26. I will definitely pay for her maintenance for 6 months or even longer whatever is appropriate and will go through all the advices given in the links given above.

    I have to admit for a moment I had started thinking to make amends with her once I heard her in reconciliatory tone over phone previously, however when I called again yesterday to collect nikanama copy as I need this to make divorce papers, she seemed only focused on me making her monthly maintenance and again sounded very cold and gave an impression that I was the person at fault and she also didn’t seem interested in talking to me again and also wanted me to divorce her and felt very hurt and says she and her family will never accept me again. So it’s also strange that whenever I think of making amends, I get an indication from Allah and this lady then doesn’t seem interested in continuing or maybe I don’t understand her mind as she might be broken hurt and angry. She also again cursed me and my family and in particular my daughter cursing that she should face the same fate which got me scared. I warned her later through text message not to do anything foolish like that. I think she is upset and confused and probably won’t do such a thing.

    There is also past issue between my daughter and 2nd wife which is why my 2nd wife blamed my daughter as she thought she might have a hand in making this situation and she thinks my daughter had done spiritual on her so that there is rift between me and 2nd wife and ultimately getting towards divorce she has threatened to do the same on her if she is involved. Around 6 months back my daughter had seen some of my text messages of over 8 to 10 months old from me to 2nd wife and she had confronted me and during those days… as I was scared to disclose I was able to convince her that its nothing serious and its over and matter was settled, however my daughters were very worried for their mother during that time so she kept on calling my 2nd wife number as they had no idea I had already married and kept on pestering her and asking her who she is as she was aggressively curious .. my 2nd wife broke down and she did didn’t respond to those calls but she felt as if my daughter knows everything.

    WORRIED OF BLACK MAGIC THREAT: Last night my wife woke up in middle of night and she got scared as she woke. I am worried and hope and pray that my 2nd wife has not done anything foolish such as black magic as these things are very common here in Pakistan. Is there anything I can do to protect me and my family against such evil forces? I don’t think she will do such a thing but her sisters are scary. Later during the night I started hearing quranic verses for 30 mins through Iphone’s ear headset and after 5 to 10 minutes of hearing I started feeling uncomfortable and started seeing picture of my 2nd wife going through hardships and I started crying silently in sadness (as its happening to her due to me) and didn’t want to wake up my 1st wife as I went through this internal commotion and later on I felt as if something like pressure was hovering over my body but after the end part of 30 minutes the pressure was gone and my sadness also stopped. Maybe I am going through a withdrawal symptom.

    • CORRECTION: Please ignore my mentioning of the above mentioned dream of my wife had as I inadvertently thought my wife had a dream whereas inactual she saw the darkness and the turned off lamp in our bedroom as she frightenly woke up last night which i misinterpreted as dream when i asked her.. so please ignore that part of it...

    • You need not worry about black magic and such things. Allah has control over all things and he wills what he wants.

      you can protect yourself in general from anything bad by reading quran regularly, saying dua and seeking Allah's protection everyday. Reading the fatha, ayat kursi, surat ikhlas, surat falaq, surat nas before you sleep and in the morning, also surat mulk before you sleep is very important.. Try to read surat al baqara everyday or whenever feel unsafe. Mashallah the whole quran is great for protection. do not associate with bad people. do not keep pictures or people or animals or animate statues in the house because its said that angels dont enter a house that has these things. keep your salat and increase your iman. seek allah's forgiveness constantly and all this can help to protect you and your family. when you are in sujood, make dua. you can do qeyam lail (last 1/3 of the night) and ask Allah for anything you want including protection. Mashallah as muslims we have every chance and opportunity to seek Allah's protection. So do not worry and do not focus on this issue of black magic which is haram anyways if your 2nd wife is thinking about it.

      by the way, your daughter finding out about you is the same way i found out about my father. I saw his text message and i confronted him and he denied it. I kept it secret not to hurt my mother and then she found out and everything became a disaster after that. subhanallah. the children always know. so am not surprised ur daughter found out. am sure she is hurting. Allah keep her strong and protect her. amen.

      • I agree with the above advice.
        Read Surah Ikhlas, Falaq & Naas 3x each after Magrib and Fajr and before sleeping and 1x each after Zuhr Asr and Isha.
        Get all of your family to do this too and ensure you and your family pray all salat 5x a day. Start slowly making changes by loving encouragement. The stronger a persons eman is the more difficult it is to inflict magic on them.

        Know with certainty that all power lies with Allah (swt) and no one can harm you or your family without Allah's will. Try not to fear them. If it helps recite 'La Hawla wala quwwata illah billah' 'There is no power/might except with Allah to help you reinforce this belief.

        Sara
        IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  27. assalamalaikum
    My father is not the prophet and he did a BIG mistake. Having relation with a women not married to her.

    SORRY I HAVE PERMISSION FROM THE FORUM TO TYPE CAPS FOR SAKE OF VISIBILTY IAM ALSO 55 YEARS OLD

    AND YOUY REVEALING THAT ABOBE WAS IN YR REPLY I WAS IN THE OMPRESSION THAT THE YOU TOLD YOU FATHER PREFERED 2ND ABOVE YOU ALL-
    SO MARRIAGE IN SHARIAH IS VALIS FOR ANY HSUBAND PERMISSION IS NOT NEEDED AND TELING THE 12ST WIFE WILL ERUPT A SEETHA IN HER SHE WILL FORGET SHE IS FOLOOWER OF HAZRATH AISHA- AND SUDDENLY CHANGE TO SEETHA A SAYING MERA RAM MERA RAM-AFRAID TO SHARE THE HUSBAND ALSO PROPERTY AND MONEY-

    HAPPY TO KNOW YOU ARE GOOD MUSLIMA ONLY THAT WORD SUNNI IS A TITLE WE HAVE TAKEN ON OUR SELVES IN SOUTH ASIAN COUNTRIES AND BELIEF FOREIGN TO ISLAM PARTICULARLY IN INDIA PAK AND BANGAL DESH WHWRE OUT FOREFATHERS VALUE TAQLEED MORE THAN QURAN AND HADEES -TAQLEED DECLARES 3 TALAQ IN ONE SITTING IS JAYEZ AND THAT BECOMES OUT MOTTO WHATEVER THE QURAN SAYS OR SUNNAH SAYS OUR HOUSE HAVE ADPOTED THIS CURSE AND 10000000000000000000000000000000000000 OF GIRLS HAVE RETURNED HOME WITH LUGGAGE AND CHILDREN-
    THIS IS FOR THE KNOWLEDGE FOR YOU AND THE READERS- http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-10-27/lucknow/28230688_1_talaq-three-times-dar-ul-ifta-iddat-period
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-01-07/india/28020846_1_talaq-three-times-hanafi-sect-dar-ul-ifta
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-11-15/india/28264140_1_talaq-fatwa-department-deoband
    AND DO ANY OPPRESSION ON MUSLIM WOMEN -http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/065.htm 65:1) O Prophet, when you divorce women, divorce them for their waiting-period, *1 and compute the waiting period accurately, *2 and hold Allah, your Lord, in awe. Do not turn them out of their homes (during the waiting period) â nor should they go away (from their homes) *3â unless they have committed a manifestly evil deed. *4 Such are the bounds set by Allah; and he who transgresses the bounds set by Allah commits a wrong against himself. You do not know: maybe Allah will cause something to happen to pave the way (for reconciliation). *5"If you have to divorce your wives, you should divorce them till the expiry of their waiting-period".The intention of this verse is further explained by a few other Ahadith which have been reported from the Holy prophet (upon wham be Allah's peace) ai d some of the major Companions. Nasa'i has related that the Holy Prophet was infomed that a person had pronounced three divorces on his wife in ane sitting. He stood up in anger and said:'`Are the people playing with the Book of Allah, although I am present among you?"Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported: I divorced my wife while she was menstruating during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). 'Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Command him ('Abdullah bin 'Umar) to take her back (and keep her) and pronounce divorce when she is purified and she again enters the period of menstruation and she is again purified (after passing the period of menses), and then if he so desires he may keep her and if he desires divorce her (finally) before touching her (without having an intercourse with her), for that is the period of waiting ('Iddah) which Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, has commanded for the divorce of women-
    http://www.creatorstruth.ning.com

  28. i was just told today 2nd wife is seriously ill which is why she is behaving this way with each passing day since the time i posted my problems as she had become somewhat cold and endgy and its been downhill ever since... this being the main reason their sisters are upset with me as she is failing in health and they think i am the main reason.

    2nd wife also wants divorce from me as she thinks she has some spell on her and this is another reason she wants out from me as well and thinks once i am out then she might get alright. i am feeling very bad and guilty about this situation.

    I am praying that she gets well soon. The divorce matter is now settled and I will send the divorce papers by next week.

    I hoping and praying she recovers.

    I am now really scared and worried.

  29. asaalamaikum Dear SARA
    Read Surah Ikhlas, Falaq & Naas 3x each after Magrib and Fajr and before sleeping and 1x each after Zuhr Asr and Isha.

    CAN U PL GIVE REFERNECE AS WHO AHS TOLD TEN QUANTITY AND TIME OF THE ABOVE ADVICE TO ALI AHMED

    SO THAT THE FORUM ALSO GETS A CHANCE TO KNOW HOW AUTHENTIC IT IS AND IS IT FROM QURAN OR AHDEES A OR JUST CENTURY PASSER BY SCHOLAR-WHO ADDS ADDS ADDS IN ISLA WHET EVER HE WANTS AND THAT ADDS TO MORE DIVISIONS AND SECTS -
    PL DONT BE OFFENDED .............
    THIS ABOVE ADVICE IS NOT FROM QURAN AND AUTHENTIC AHDEES AND IF IT IS FROM SOME BUZURG YE KEHTHAI THAI KI STORY THEN THIS APPLIES-
    Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you.'"
    References:
    • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Number 173 - Afflictions and the End of the World - (English version)
    • Sahih Bukhari, Page 1489, Number 7049, Book: al-Fitan - (Arabic version)

    • Brother Ali,

      If you do not know, it does not mean it is unauthentic and from some Buzrug. No!!! What sister Sara has mentioned of the recitation of Surah Ikhlas, Falaq and Naas is from our Imam, Muhammad bin Abdullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

      The reference is this:

      Abu Dawud 2/86, An-Nasa'i 3/68. See also Al-Albani, Sahīh At-Tirmithi
      2/8

      It is true that reading specific aayaat or surahs without authentic proofs is very common. But it need not be the case everytime. There are some authentic narrations about the specific times and number for reciting a specific surah or aayah.

      The above is also available in Hisn al Muslim. You can refer to it.

      Muhammad Waseem
      IslamicAnswers.com Editor

  30. This post is now closed for further comments, thanks to everyone who tried to help the brother. Let's allow brother Ali to take his time and make up his mind to make the right decision iA.

    Muhammad1982,
    Editor,IslamicAnswers.com